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6R60 Torque Converter Lockup/1-2 Shift Quality Issues

Discussion in 'Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers' started by rustylugnut, April 24, 2019.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. Tike

    Tike Active Member

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    Mode 6 On OBD2. For misfire data. Think its $82 if you scanner goes by pid
     
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  3. Explorer_PL

    Explorer_PL Elite Explorer

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    Interesting that it won't start. I would not think the TCM would have that effect on PCM, it should start, maybe shifting would be out wack but the engine should be running. Keep us posted.
     
  4. rustylugnut

    rustylugnut New Member

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    Got it started today. Most of the time the starter relay won't even click when you turn the key, sometimes it'll crank for a second then cut out, but I got lucky once and it cranked long enough to turn over. Transmission seems to behave the same as it did with the old tcm. Still no 1st, but it'll shift through the rest of the gears fine. Perfectly drivable.
    Intermittent CEL with no pcm or tcm codes. Scanner seems to be reliably communicating with the tcm. Double checked the tcm connector, and it's fully seated. No issue with the gear lever position sensor either.
    I tried starting it with the TCM unplugged and got the same no crank no click situation. Should it crank with the TCM unplugged? I'd think so.
     
  5. Tike

    Tike Active Member

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    follow up on my previous mention of COPs... only 6r60s 4.6L 3v 06-2010

    this dude knows his shit too. tons of good content.
     
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  6. rustylugnut

    rustylugnut New Member

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    Appreciate the video @Tike Definitely gonna look into that.
    Filled it with atf today. I was previously operating on the cold fill of ~3.5qts to get it started. Safe to operate it that way, per the service manual. But I have an appointment to have it programed tomorrow, so I filled it. No change in trans behavior.
    Starting issue seems to be unrelated. The relay is clicking when the key is turned. There's a charging system issue. Seems like the battery is weak.
    DTCs:
    PCM-P0620 Generator control circuit
    TCM-P0563 System voltage high
    4x4M-B1317 Battery voltage high
    ABS-B1676 Battery pack voltage out of range
    When tested with the engine off the battery only read 12.2 volts. Didn't read it during jump start or with the engine running. Significant corrosion has formed on the positive terminal in just the past few weeks. Never failed to start or did any of this weird shit before I replaced the TCM a few days ago.
    Hoping I can get this sorted out easily and quick. I'd imagine it would interfere with module programming. I need to check MSCAN codes. Smart Junction box is on there.
     
    Last edited: July 18, 2019
  7. Tike

    Tike Active Member

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    if you have a good scanner i would hook up and use mode 6 - individual cylinder mis fire test and look for any mis fires. cyl 8 on these Ex and ST is bad culprit as it sits right below the windshielf wiper cowl in such a way water and debris like to drip onto that coil.. i replaced it last year and apparently im having an issue again... also the COPs are pretty cheap on amazon. 45-55$ FoMoCo

    best of luck with this
     
    Last edited: July 18, 2019
  8. Explorer_PL

    Explorer_PL Elite Explorer

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    The water dripping on # 8 is indeed an issue on the v8 models.

    #8 is the last one on the driver side closest to the firewall
     
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  9. Tike

    Tike Active Member

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    thank you for the correction!
     
  10. rustylugnut

    rustylugnut New Member

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    High voltage codes were caused by jump starting.
    Reprogramming at the Ford dealer didn't accomplish much. They didn't seem to know what the hell they were doing. They said it "shut off" the first two computers they tried to program it with, then told me it didn't have a tcm and the trans is pcm controlled. They got it programmed with a third computer, but it seems like they only reprogrammed the pcm. tcm seems to be on the same software it was before. I wish I had written it down so I could know for sure. Software version is dated 2008. I ordered a VCMII clone. Gonna try to do it myself.
    Accessed mode 6 misfire data on Forscan. Reading 0 misfires for all cylinders. I find that sorta hard to believe.
    Starting issue has gone away. Not sure if it was software related or not. Didn't do it for them at the dealer before or after programming.
    I have noticed the 3-4 shift is delayed and sort of harsh sometimes. Particularly at low throttle input. That wasn't present before any of the trans work. Appeared after I installed the new valve body with old tcm, but is worse after installing the new TCM.
     
  11. Explorer_PL

    Explorer_PL Elite Explorer

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    I also don't believe Forscan is showing correctly the misfires. I know I have one somewhere but mode 6 shows 0's on all 8. Or the threshold is set up to high by Ford.
    And I would check for it right after a long trip where I felt it pretty significantly.
     
  12. Tike

    Tike Active Member

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    does the issue occur when OD/ is off?

    can you check the ref wire Voltages for things devices like the tps or TC solenoid with an oscilloscope to make sure its steady 5v reference and not getting interference? ( im throwing darts at the wall here)

    also going back and re-reading your forscan graphs, i was under the impression that the TCClutch on locks up when you are in 6th gear to match the trans to engine output shaft for efficiency reasons, not during 1-5 shifts. i am totally wrong about this?
     
    Last edited: July 22, 2019
  13. rustylugnut

    rustylugnut New Member

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    Checking ref wires isn't something I've thought of. I'm not sure if those are sensitive to interference.
    The previously mentioned issue with the coils involves the CAN-bus wires. The thing to do to check for interference on those would be to check the wavelengths of the high&low CAN wires with an oscilloscope, which I don't have.
    Seems like this is the principal of it:
    [​IMG]
    Six Ways from Sunday: Diagnosing ZF6 & Ford 6R60/80 TC-Related Drivability Concerns
    This article says the TC clutch(TCC) can be applied as early as 2nd gear, and there is supposed to be no TC slip during shifts.
     
    Last edited: July 26, 2019
  14. rustylugnut

    rustylugnut New Member

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    Got a knockoff vcmii which came with a bootlegged copy of IDS. All attempts at reprogramming have failed, and the TCM has stopped communicating with the PCM and scan tool. Doesn't respond during the network test. Plugged the old TCM into the harness and it responds to the scan tool, but still no luck programming. It starts and runs, but is in limp mode.
    I'm so tired of ****ing with this thing. It's my daily driver too. Never buying another one of these.
     
    Last edited: August 5, 2019
  15. rustylugnut

    rustylugnut New Member

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    Old TCM swapped back in, and I'm back to where I was before the new one stopped communicating. No first gear.
    I'm thinking this is an electrical problem. I'm getting U1900 and other U codes from multiple modules, and there is heavy corrosion forming very quickly on the positive battery terminal. The battery isn't holding a charge well and needs replaced anyway.
     
  16. Tike

    Tike Active Member

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    random but whats your oil pressure n start up - idle - driving?
     

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