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A/C not performing as good as it was.

Firebird!

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Joined
July 17, 2006
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City, State
Lakeland
Year, Model & Trim Level
'02 Eddie Bauer
Hey guys. My A/C is not working as good as it was before. It still works pretty good at highway speeds, but when in a city or parked it gets pretty warm in a car, and here in Florida specially in summer time - lets say - it gets little annoying ;)
So I hooked up my A/C gauge and it shows about 50 PSI at idle(yellow zone), as soon as I give it a little throttle (2000-2500rpms) the needle goes down to 35 PSI(blue zone) and of course the A/C starts to work alot better.
So what could be the problem? What should I be looking for?
Thank You
 



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Firebird, sounds like a weak compressor. It should be able to keep pressure lower at idle and cycle the clutch for control.
 






Firebird, sounds like a weak compressor. It should be able to keep pressure lower at idle and cycle the clutch for control.

So you are saying that I should be looking for a new compressor - right? :(
 






It is likely the compressor. At 50 psi I would expect the vent temp to be about 60ish. It should do better than that. And since you say it used to do better, then without knowing anything else about the truck I would say compressor. Your 02 uses a scroll style compressor. (like two spirals oscillating on each other, hard to describe) They're known to not perform well at idle but great at high speed. Since your in FL I'm sure it has seen a lot of use and is probably getting old. You'll have to take it in somewhere to get the refrigerant sucked out for any repair. So you could get a tech to look at it with their gauges since they'll be connected for evacuation already, and they'll be able to tell you for sure what's wrong.
 






Since you're only giving us one gauge readings.......I'll assume that you don't have a two gauge manifold set.

IF that is the case, my advice would be.........if you're going to be doing AC work, invest in a proper manifold gauge set (the kind with a high and low gauge).

Harbor Freight has one that frequently goes on sale..........

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92649

For a home hobbiest.......IMHO, it's good enough.

And invest in a good book on the subject. I suggest the Haynes book on Automotive Heating and A/C. It a basic book and note when the book was published. My book was published in 2000. So, the concepts are there......but, I have no idea about your pressure readings, oil and R-134a capacities for your 2002 vehicle or if "impovements and/or changes" have been made to certain systems.

Anyway...........for a quick start/answer.........

What's wrong with my Air Conditioning?
A number of things can happen to make your A/C quit working. Here, we'll go over some of the common problems, and what you can do to fix it.

Leaks / Low Refrigerant
No A/C system is completely, 100% sealed. Over the years, small refrigerant particles will leak out, up to 1/2 ounce per year. On smaller-capacity systems, this will become noticeable a lot quicker than a larger capacity system. In this case, the most practical thing to do is simply add a bit more refrigerant. You will want to hook up a set of manifold gauges to make sure that the system has at least some pressure in it before you add refrigerant, because if the system is completely empty, you might have a most severe leak. At best, you will still have AIR in the system, and you want NO air in there.
Symptoms of low refrigerant include rapid cycling of the compressor clutch, or clutch will not engage, little or no cooling, very oily spots on A/C components.
A severe leak will require repair or component replacement. To find a leak, there must be some refrigerant in the system. An electronic 'sniffer' or dye are the most effective ways of finding a leak. Most A/C shops can perform this service for a minimal charge. Some retail auto parts stores also loan or rent tools for this.
Once the leak is identified, the component should be repaired or replaced, and the system serviced.
*Tip* - Evaporator leaks can be difficult to find, since the evaporator is usually not easily accessible, located in the dash of the vehicle. With dye in the system, place a white, preferably unused baby diaper under the evaporator drain tube. Moisture will drip on to the diaper. If there is dye in there, you'll know it!

Poor Airflow
One of the most-missed problems is poor airflow. Your A/C comes on, but it's not very cold. If you have a gauge, the high side pressure seems awfully high.
There are a couple of quick, easy things to check. First, make sure the condenser is debris-free, and that the fins are not all bent over. The condenser is located right in front of the radiator. Bugs, rocks, plastics bags, etc. covering the front of it prevent air from passing through, cooling not only your radiator, but also the refrigerant in the condenser.
All engines have either a fan clutch or radiator / condenser cooling fans. Fan clutch go out all the time. The fan clutch is located between the radiator and the engine, and has a big fan blade attached to it. With the engine on, that fan should be turning very fast, and moving a lot of air, TOWARDS the engine. Running correctly, you will not want to get your fingers near it. I recently repaired a 1996 Chevy truck that had blown the compressor shaft seal. While diagnosing the system, I noticed that the fan was barely turning. I could actually stop it with my hand. (not recommended for the non-professional) Because there was poor airflow, the pressure (pressure is temperature) built up from the condenser to the compressor, and was more than the compressor shaft seal could handle.
If the vehicle has an electric fan, make sure it (or they) comes on, and that the air is fast, and moving TOWARDS the engine. If the fan(s) does not come on, check the fuse. If that's not it, you may need to replace the fan.
*Tip* - You can confirm proper airflow by TEMPERATURE TESTING. A good thermometer that can be touched to the inlet and outlet of the condenser will confirm proper airflow. You should see a 20 to 40 degree drop from the inlet to the outlet of the 2 condenser pipes. For example, if you measure the temperature at the inlet (where it comes from the compressor) and have a temperature of 160 degrees, the outlet should be 100-140 degrees. Less than 20 degrees difference usually indicates poor airflow. MORE than 40 degrees usually indicates a restriction in the condenser.

Restrictions
A restiction is a condition where some piece of debris has lodged in a component, and is 'restricting' the flow of refrigerant. Condenser restrictions are the most common. Most late-model condensers have very small passages, as low as 6mms! When there is a restriction in the system, the flow of refrigerant is greatly slowed, or sometimes stopped completely. The blockage causes pressure to build up behind the restriction, and will cause damage to the components behind it.
The most effective way to locate a restriction is with temperature testing. With a good thermometer, temperature (which is pressure!) can be measured ANYWHERE on the system. Large drops in temperature can be identified and repaired. For example, a restircted condenser...If the inlet measures 160 degrees (about 295 psi) and the outlet measures 90 degrees (about 103 psi), it means the refrigerant is slowly leaking past a restriction. Because the refrigerant spends more time in the condenser, it has time to cool of more. Problem is, that 295 psi will continue to build back, and will eventually blow a seal somewhere, probably in the compressor.
Some restrictions can be repaired by flushing the restricted component, but parallel-flow condensers usually need to be replaced.

Improper Refrigerant Charge
As A/C systems become smaller and smaller, the amount of refrigerant in the system becomes critical. The correct charge for an A/C system has been calculated and engineered by vehicle manufacturers for optimum performance. Here are some tips to keep in mind when charging a system:
Charging with cans: A 12 ounce can of refrigerant gives you 12 ounces of refrigerant, right? Well, not always. If you are using a gauge set to charge, those hoses can hold up to 4 ounces of refrigerant themselves. On a 56 ounce capacity system, those 4 ounces might not make a big difference, but on a 1 pound system, you can bet it will. Also, notice how when you pull the can tap off, how the can wasn't quite empty? Yep, another ounce or 2 there.
Too much! Your A/C isn't quite cooling, so you run down to the parts store or a big box retail store, and buy a recharge kit. We in the industry call 'em suicide kits. You add a can of refrigerant. Well, with A/C, too much isn't better.
Retrofitting: Vehicles manufactured prior to 1993 and some 1994 originally came with R12 refrigerant. Because of the cost of that refrigerant, most folks opt to retrofit to R134a refrigerant. Problem is, there is no set standard for how much R134a refrigerant to use in an R12 system. There are many misconceptions about how much to use, and some people have come up with percentages of original charge. I've heard to use as little as 60% of the orginal charge!
So how do I know if I have the proper charge? Our old friend temperature testing can help determine if you have the proper charge. Orifice tube systems are the easiest and most accurately confirmed systems. It can be done on expansion valve systems, but you'll need to get on the evaporator side of the expansion valve.
Here's how: Measure the evaporator inlet pipe and record your temperature. Now measure the outlet pipe of the evaporator. Those 2 temperatures should be as close to equal as possible, at least within 5 degrees of each other. If the outlet is MORE than 5 degrees warmer than the inlet, you still need more refrigerant. If the outlet is MORE than 5 degrees cooler than the inlet, you have too much refrigerant in there.
Final tip: If your A/C is working, don't mess with. If you have an R12 system, you do NOT need to have it converted to R134a just because someone tells you that R12 is gone. If it's working, leave it alone.
If your system is working and sealed, you DO NOT need to replace your filter drier or accumulator. This is not a part that wears out. The only time you need to replace it is when the system is opened, or if you've had a leak that allows air (and moisture) into the system. If someone tells you you need to replace it every 3, 5 or 7 years, they're trying to sell you something.

Taken from: http://reviews.ebay.com/A-C-Diagnosing_W0QQugidZ10000000000946036

HTH to get you started.

Aloha, Mark

PS.......take a copy of the ad to the store. IF the store has it priced higher........they'll honor your internet price, with a copy of the ad as proof.
 






Since I haven't posted this list of A/C tools (for a home hobbist) in a long while........here it is again..........

If you were planning on doing some AC work, there are few special tools that you’ll need. The recovery systems are usually cost prohibitive for most home DIY guys. As a plan of action, you could have the AC Shop test for leaks and/or recover the refrigerant from your system. Then, you could do the replacement of parts (if any) and recharge the system by yourself.

BTW......the links that I have provided here, are just to help you visualize the part.....you can buy from whomever, you want to.

For AC parts and tools, you could check with major AC Supply Houses like:

http://www.ackits.com/

http://www.acsource.com/

But, I’ve found some pretty good deals at my local Harbor Freight store. If you don’t have one close by, you could always mail order. Watch for their frequent sales. Hint: If there is a catalog (internet) sale, the local store will honor the sale price. Just print the page and take it into the store.

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/start.do

The dual gauge manifold set is needed for any serious DIY AC work.

Manifold set - at the Harbor Freight site enter part#92649

Vacuum pump (evacuator):

Some folks have used a venturi style evacuator with success. Though, you will need a decent shop compressor to use it (one person commented that he used his with a 30 gallon Craftsmen 6 hp compressor). It works. Just not as easy to use as an electric evacuator pump.

Venturi style evacuation - at the Harbor Freight site enter part#92475

The elec. vacuum pumps are available from various mfns at different levels of suction power and prices. Ebay has a lot of them at very good prices. I got one for home use (2.5 cfm) that is factory rated to suck down to the 50 micron level (paid about $125). Anything that will suck down to lower than 200 microns should be good enough.

Elec. Vacuum Pump - http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...PartNumber=781900&Description=A/C+Vacuum+Pump

***A Manifold Set and Vacuum Pump (from the higher end dealers) can usually be purchased as a kit (cheaper than the single prices).

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Smaller Tools:

You will still need the can tap connector that will be used to tap the sealed R-134a can and connect it to the yellow hose.

AC Can Tap - http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...er=783012&Description=A/C+Refrigerant+Can+Tap

You’ll likely need a quick detach tool to get those AC lines open and/or disconnected. They can also be used for fuel lines.

quick detach tool - http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...cription=A/C+&+Fuel+Line+Quick+Disconnect+Set

Also handy to remove the orifice tube….though, I’ve used a long nose pliers.

Orifice Removal Tool - http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...er=783205&Description=A/C+Orifice+Tube+Puller

If you want to look for leaks yourself, here is a tool that retails at almost $100.

Leak detector - at the Harbor Freight site enter part#92514

Aloha, Mark

PS.......Harbor Freight now carries a line of Vacuum Pumps at really good prices. Check them out.

And, get a digital thermometer.......I found mine at Wal Mart and I've also seen them at Harbor Freight. They look like this one (only cheaper).......

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPag...TE&PartNumber=783000&Description=Thermometer
 






Thanks ma96782 alot of good info in your posts. I did alot of work on a cars before including a rear axle rebuild in my Firebird (still works :) ). But I've never worked with A/C systems before - so I'm newbie on that. Will have to do some learning. :thumbsup:
 






OK then......sounds like you're gonna be doing this.

There are some really good folks here with a lot of knowledge.

Read the stickies.......that will give you an idea (somewhat) about what is involved with AC work.

Aloha, Mark
 






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