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Auto Start-Stop Technology...Please NO!

Discussion in 'Stock 2020 Ford Explorer & Aviator' started by corpflyboy, March 28, 2019.

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  1. DWD

    DWD Member

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    Instead of inserting and turning a key, the 2020 Explorer starts up with a two button process.
     
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  3. peterk9

    peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    2 buttons? As far as I know there is only one Start/Stop button. This thread is about the auto start/stop feature. Not to be confused with starting the vehicle.

    Peter
     
  4. DWD

    DWD Member

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    As for me, and I suspect many others, you start the vehicle by pressing the engine start/stop button and then the disable auto-start-stop button. Two button process. About the topical feature. :)
     
  5. Axles of Evil

    Axles of Evil Member

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    *** Important Information ***

    Guys, as you know, I had front suspension noises from our new 2020 Explorer Platinum and after many days in the shop without a resolution to the clunking, the car was exchanged for a 2020 2WD Lincoln Aviator Reserve 1. I did not want the AWD for fear I would end up with the same issue, and now the new one rides perfectly quiet. But, in the mean time I had purchased the AutoStop Eleiminator originally for my Explorer. I was going to install it in the Aviator but after reading the website again, I was dismayed to learn that the device only works with AWD units, and not 2WD units at this time...

    Apparently, the 2WD versions are somewhat different in the way they activate the Stop-Start system. I talked with Travis at AutoStop Eliminator, and he has not developed a gadget for the 2WD Explorer, or Aviator yet.... :( Damn......

    Anyways, Travis mentioned to return it, but also suggested to first try it on the Aviator just for grins as it could not mess anything up....well SURPRISE!!!!..... it eliminated the Stop Start system completely on my 2020 2WD AVIATOR. However, it also made the default to a permanent OFF state, with no option to activate SS using the on screen switch. When you try to turn SS on, it will revert back to OFF. Now for me, this is a win as I don't ever want to be bothered by this intrusive pest messing with my engine and my driving experience. I was not concerned that I lost the option to reactivate SS. Good riddance.

    Bottom Line: Having done this myself, and Travis confirming the same response from another 2WD Aviator owner, the current device for the Lincoln Aviator AWD will successfully turn off the SS system in a 2WD Aviator to the point where no indication is shown that it was ever there (no A with the circles around it) other than a very brief screen showing up at startup for about 2 seconds stating "Stop/Start Deactivated by Switch"...which then disappears by itself, no acknowledge buttons to press......which works perfectly for me because I don't EVER want it on. So the only downside if you can call it that, is there is no option to turn SS "ON" if you ever wanted it back (God knows why, but each to his own). So this is a solid working solution for those 2WD Aviator owners who want to permanently turn off SS in their cars, and forget about it. So its a WIN in my book at least.

    Also please be aware that the 2WD Aviator apparently DOES NOT have the same SS system as the 2WD Explorer, and I cant say for sure that this will ever work with the 2WD Explorer currently.

    I am sharing this information ONLY for those 2WD Aviator owners who want to get rid of this SS hiderence from their cars. It is a solution that works.
     
  6. peterk9

    peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I have had my Aviator for a little over 2 weeks now and hardly even notice the engine shutting down. I recall one time I had to look at the tach to confirm the engine was actually OFF. :) I'm also curious to see what, if any, effect these 'over-ride' devices may have on future warranty issues.

    Peter
     
  7. Turdle

    Turdle Habla tortuga Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I can't help to wonder if this tech will save enough fuel to pay for the trip to the auto parts store for a new starter. This has to increase starter motor wear by at least 400 percent. I'd turn that shiz off.
     
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  8. buzzard302

    buzzard302 Member

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    The tech is not really new, they have been doing it for many years now. I agree though, I don't want my starter working overtime. I'm sure this was a move by the manufacturers to gain .1 MPG fuel economy and satisfy the latest regulations. I don't like it, but I'm pretty good at remembering to hit the button right after I start the vehicle.
     
  9. peterk9

    peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    According to this site, the Start/Stop tech does not wear out the starter. Don't start-stop systems wear out your car's starter?

    Peter
     
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  10. Axles of Evil

    Axles of Evil Member

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    Its not the starter that should be of concern...its the turbos. These turbos are liquid cooled using the engine cooling system in addition they have a supply of oil that feeds the high speed bearings that carry the turbo rotor. When the engine shuts off using SS, there is a rapid heat build up in the turbo casing due to stopping the cooling mediums (water & oil), especially if driven at speed on the freeway, and then you come off at an intersection and the engine shuts off. This will have a cumulative effect on the mechanical integrity of the turbo bearings and turbo element and possibly impeller from thermal stress over time.

    Secondly, correct engine oil and timely oil changes are also a requirement more so with turbo based engines to ensure that the oil stays capable of proper lubrication, especially to the small high speed bearings in the turbos. Induced heat to the oil by chronically stopping the turbos (as with SS systems) will have a cumulative effect on viscosity and wear protection provided by the oil, especially if one follows the silly 10K oil change regimen. Granted, today's oils are much better than ones in the past, and have been engineered to better cope with heat and viscosity breakdown. Being old school, I would rather not put my engine under this unnecessary stress in the first place for a couple of bucks a year.

    I just don't see the cost advantages put forth for this "technology" other than it provides the car manufacturers with some virtual wiggle room on the EPA fuel regs to publish feel-good propaganda for government and general population consumption. However, when mythology meets reality, experience is what we get when we realize we didn't get what we wanted. Lets see how the long term repair bills are on cars that use SS all the time. That has yet to be seen.....stay tuned.

    As with anything, there are those who don't mind or like it based on emotional reasons (good for you), and others who for specific factual reasons don't want it (good for you too). I am of the latter group.

    So, forget the starter, that's already been beefed up and without SS will outlast the car 5x over.

    Aaaannnnndddd besides, probably gonna be a non issue in 10 or 20 years as all vehicles will likely be electric anyway.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: November 18, 2019
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  11. Texas Steve

    Texas Steve New Member

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    I am the "other tWD Aviator Travis spoke to Sunday night. And it works the same for me as it does you. And like you I dont ever want to re-activate it!!
     
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  12. Axles of Evil

    Axles of Evil Member

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    Thanks and good to meet you. The reason I posted this is to share the knowledge with others who are frustrated with the stop-start system so that they can be aware there is an answer to solving the issue. This post is not meant to address or discuss or react to the thoughts or feelings of those who like it, or are not bothered with it (more power to ya)....its primarily for those who are lookin' for help and knowledge to defeat the standard ON option, and want it gone with minimum fuss.

    Peter mentioned warranty issues....there actually can't be any as Ford/Lincoln already provides a path to deactivate the Stop Start System, therefore the function to CHANGE IT is already designed into the car already and therefore does not generate any additional actions other than altering the invocation or deactivation of this standard option by doing it automatically. Secondly, you are not connecting to make changes to the BCM or APIM via software, so again, warranty is just fine.

    Just wanted to make that clear as opposed to engine tunes which alter the standard as built setting to something other than design....that will void a warranty. Stop-Start is built in with an option to turn it off and on. This device does the same thing automatically and nothing more.
     
    Last edited: November 18, 2019
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  13. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    I'm with Turdle, I'll never let that junk mess with my driving. I already have the man telling me the key has to come out of the ignition every time I get out of the seat.

    The propaganda that says it doesn't effect starter wear is BS, all lies. I know without any study that using the starter countless times per day will wear it out much faster, as well as the battery and ring gear. The thought about effects on the turbo's is far more critical than the starter. I could put up with some starter affects, but I would never accept something which will harm critical parts(and very expensive to service), in the name of efficiency etc. The PC police can go to ####.
     
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  14. Thomas Thayil

    Thomas Thayil T T Engineer Elite Explorer

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    2020 explorer don’t support ids for diagnosis and does forscan. My download forscan won’t recognize the 2020 explorer. Hopefully the team will come up with a newer version of forscan software.
     
  15. Jbcain

    Jbcain Member

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    Nice drawn out and non "factual" post.

    But, alas all Ecoboost engines have a passive thermal coolant siphon system that keeps coolant moving after the engine has been turned off.

    Oil coking in a turbo takes quite a while to set in, and it's very minimal if at all with synthetic fluids.

    Drivel, at best.

    Love the stab at emotions vs factual investment at the end. That was the best part.
     
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  16. blwnsmoke

    blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Forscan does work as several of us have used it to make changes. You are not using the right version or proper adapter if you can't make changes.
     
  17. steweod

    steweod Active Member

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    On my F150 it saves quite a bit more than .1 mpg. Just by remote starting in the summer or winter for a total of 30-45 mins a day can cut 2 MPG from my mileage. Also hardly even notice the auto start/stop and it is really convenient in drive thrus.

    Little trick if it hasn't been mentioned all you have to do is just release the brake pedal some (not fully) and your vehicle starts back up.
     
  18. peterk9

    peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I agree about not noticing the stop part. Also, I've found that just turning the steering wheel will start it back up or prevent it from shutting down..

    Peter
     
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  19. steweod

    steweod Active Member

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    Anything that requires the engine restarts it. Power steering pump ac etc restarts the engine.
     
  20. blwnsmoke

    blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    There is no power steering pump just for clarification but yes, it does turn on because of the load required to power the EPAS.
     
  21. evilgeek

    evilgeek New Member

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    Here's what drives me crazy about auto stop/start systems....

    Yes, we all know that idling for long periods is inefficient, and we should be more conscientious about turning the car off while waiting for our passenger to run into the store, or whatever, but when we are in traffic, the car's computers have no way of knowing in advance if we just stopped for a train that is going to take 8 minutes to pass, or if we stopped because of a slowdown on the freeway, and will be going again in 5 seconds. Starting an engine from a stopped state means overcoming the inertia of all the moving parts, and if you recall your physics classes, kinetic energy is exponential with speed, meaning that for short stops, getting an engine up to speed again will take more energy than it would to overcome the friction to keep it idling. How short? It depends on a lot of factors, but even without knowing the answer, the fact remains that the car's computers cannot see the future, and don't know how long we will be stopped, and so under some driving conditions it's entirely possible that the start/stop will be less efficient than keeping it running, and that's not even accounting for wear on the various components, or the extra vehicle weight incurred by the over-engineering required to beef up the starting system. It's a sad state of affairs when we no longer trust people to take responsibility for their own choices, and instead try to force choices on them that might not actually be helpful.
     

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