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Re: AHEM... Back to the Subject

Originally posted by GJarrett


Bendable plastic fenderwell trim and lower body panels :D

[Edited by GJarrett on 08-21-2000 at 01:03 PM]

Wrinkled Sheet metal rules!!! :D
 



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Bronco as Defender Sports Version

Originally posted by GJarrett

As opposed to spending a few extra billion designing something from scratch, take your newly-acquired Defender, make it US legal, and call it a Bronco in honor of the early model Broncos.
_________________________________________________________________________

I'm not a big fan of badge-engeneering, even though I proposed it myself in my first post :nono: And, honestly, I'm not sure that Americans would like to live with some of the Defenders -- uumm -- moods, like water leaking in, heater's main purpose being making noise, not heating the interior :confused: and so on.

But the Defender chassis and drivetrain, mated to the ZF autotranny, is in my eyes as good as it can get -- for not saying, perfect :D . Take this platform, and put a real restyled Bronco body on it. A Defender with a Ford badge would more be an Offender than a Bronco, and I don't think it would ever be accepted by the Bronco-community as a real Bronco. But a real Bronco body, retro-styled with design elements of the first Broncos, combined with the best running gear, would make a lot of people happy and would be cost effective for both, Ford and Land Rover. The "real Defender" could remain the no nonsence work-horse, and the Defender with Bronco body could become the sports version of the Defender, our ultimate Wrangler-fighter. They would not compete against each other, but be complimentary, on the US as well as on the European or Australian market.

Somthing similar Volkswagen is doing with the New Beatle. The platform, the base, running gear, frame, how ever you want to call it, is the same as used for the Golf and the Audi A3. The whole variation comes with the body, which makes the whole thing being a completely different car. If I'm not wrong, also the new S-Jaguar and a Lincoln share a lot of parts, so Ford has done it before. Anyhow, sharing parts between models and even brands is so common in the automotive industry, it's not even worth a discussion.
 






Your wishes may come true!

Again, I strolled in from another forum, and have posted a thread on what I saw when I attended a market research study a couple weeks ago.

Dead Link Removed

A couple observations since and reading your thread here.

1) I am not sure if it is 2002 or 2003, but this IS going to be built SOON. Personal feelings are very good. The sizing is comparable to an Explorer/Eplorer Sport and Rodeo/Rodeo Sport(Amigo), slighty larger than the Wrangler and Cherokee.

2) I did not see any type of option for a larger engine than the 4.0, although I did suggest the 4.6L V-8 or somethin of that nature.

3) Why on Earth is Ford changing the Explorer to 4WIS in 2002?! That is obnoxious!


HTH,
 






Michael, you are right of course. I should have worded my thought a little differently. I was thinking exactly like you -- I don't want a Defender, but the drivetrain and base vehicle can still be used to make a real Retro-Bronco with another body. My thought was that going that route would cut out a billion or so in capital development expenses (enabling a much more affordable MSRP to the consumer since Ford wouldn't have to amortize that expense into the line), and get the project into the market a year or two sooner.

I still want a Retro-Bronco, not a Defender. All your points are dead on, excellently worded, and precisely what I had in mind but worded poorly.

AFUinCO: I just read your link. That is very exciting news. Do you have any pictures, etc?

[Edited by GJarrett on 08-22-2000 at 02:06 PM]
 






Originally posted by GJarrett

AFUinCO: I just read your link. That is very exciting news. Do you have any pictures, etc?

Sorry,

No cameras were allowed. They were VERY impressive though. Unfortunate they choose to run IFS/torsion springs, and NOT offer a "push-button locker". I was always a big fan of the "ORIGINAL BRONCO".
 






TEAMWORK!!

Gerald, I'm thankful you understood what I ment :) English not being my native language let's me sometimes struggle to come to the exact point ;)

Would be nice to be invited by Ford for a little brainstorming, wouldn't it? :D

[Edited by donkey boy on 08-22-2000 at 02:32 PM]
 






Re: Pictures?

Originally posted by donkey boy
Would be nice to be invited by Ford for a little brainstorming, wouldn't it? :D


Michael, I don't recall Rick starting very many meaningless threads for no particular reason. I have a feeling you may have already been invited and have already brainstormed. ;)
 






Bronco Proto

Thanks for sharing the info, Keith...I'm always starving for news on this topic, so anytime anyone hears anything, share it! How the hell did you get in on that deal, anyway?

Overall, I'm very happy that it'll be a retro/throwback to the early Bronco...the most capable out-of-the box 'wheeler ever, in the eyes of those of us who love 'em so.

After reading your "report" on the Proto Bronco...I'm still excited, but it's tempered by what I'd feared- Inferior Front Suspension. When the AP article mentioned it would share a chassis with the Ranger, I figured as much, but will continue to hope and lobby for a SOLID FRONT AXLE. Remember, the 2002 Wrangler is rumored to have IFS, so a solid-axle Bronco would stand out and above in that important aspect.

From a marketing standpoint, I think of Jeep (Wrangler) drivers in 3 groups: Group #1, the hard-core Jeep crowd ("...you wouldn't understand"). Group #2, the folks that drive Jeeps because they're the most capable stock 'wheeler on the market. Group #3, the expatriots, specifically from Ford, who finally got sick and tired of waiting for a capable 'wheeler (read: BRONCO) with a blue oval on it.

Group #1 is untouchable...forget about them. It's Groups #2 & 3 that a new Bronco can win over/back. Build a Bronco in the true spirit of the original, and they (we) will come. Build another version of the Explorer, and we're (still) gone. HUGE opportunity to do right by some loyal people, and win business from those who only care about (off-road) performance, not the nameplate.

I've pretty much decided that I won't buy a new truck until this new one unfolds. If it's a real Bronco, I'll buy it. If not, I'm buying a Jeep. Plain and simple.

SOLID AXLES
MANUAL, MANUAL, MANUAL
-Transfer Case, Transmission, Hubs
V8 OPTION
DIESEL OPTION

I want more, but I'm focusing my mantra on what I consider essential.
 






How I got in that market research study

Well, I received a letter saying that since I was the owner of a 99 Amigo (one of the camparing vehicles), that I was selected to participate in this study. I called the number did a survey, they called back a week later with another qualifying survey and I went down to the studay a couple weeks later. Was compensated for my time, and really enjoyed the experience. That's about it.

On another note, as far as "capable, out of the box vehicle", the 98+ Amigo is a very stout and capable package with the 3.2L V6.
Even though it unfortunately has IFS, we are shouting for a solid axle, it has about the most IFS travel I have ever seen in an IFS.
Where the third member mounts, the amount of lift required for a solid conversion isn't worth it IMHO.

Feel free to stop by the http://www.4x4wire.com forums. There is a lot of good information there too.
 






Bronco Bronco Bronco

If Ford does this right they will have another run away success just like the Explorer. Only thing is that there should ONLY be a two door model not a four door. And it NEEDS to have a solid axle in the front. NO IFS!!! NO IFS!!!! Did I say NO IFS?
 






Paul, why no 4 door?

A 4 door convertible or with hardtop would be pretty :cool: unique. Just as long as the wheelbase is not more than about 100 inches. My opinion.

p.s. And I think you forgott to say: NO IFS :D :D
 






The Explorer is the 4 door wouldn't you say?
 






Defender 90

Hello to all,
I have not read all of the posts but great ideas.

Ford has under the Defender badge a great vehicle; I have seen a number of tests in different truck mags where the Defender bettered the Jeep. Not by much but it was better.

My opinion is that Ford should upgrade the Defender with heavier axles, at least a 44 in the front and rear full floater or maybe 60's all the way around, a NV4500 5-speed or HD five speed auto, both with granny low option, the T/C like the Atlas II. The engine, well that can be a problem, I guess the engine could be either the 4.6 or bring back the 5.0L, the turbo diesel sounds interesting too. The engine cannot be too large or heavy and don't forget a really flexable suspension.
Sell it under a Ford badge, call it "The Ford Tuff Truck". The nameplate can be "FTT".

Hey, how about a contest to name a new Ford Wrangler Killer.


Tnx for listening,


[Edited by Sandy on 08-28-2000 at 09:41 AM]
 






Sandy

Your post sounds like a great alternative to a Defender :D

I personally would not mess with the Defender's drivetrain, except for the main gearbox. Axles are pretty strong, if something breaks, it's the halfshafts, which are easy to replace. If you want, you can add an ARB in the rear. The transfercase is the absolute best thing I know, specially because the central diff can be locked indipendently, in high and low gears, mechanicly with the same lever you shift the lowbox. Just the main gearbox is not really famous (I killed one after just 4000 miles, not my fault, honestly :D ).
 






Wrangler Fighter "Cup"

OK, maybe I take it already one step too far here: In Europe, there are race series on circuits ("cups") where identical cars, mostly inexpensive compacts, compete against eachother. The cars can be bought at the dealership readily equipped with rollbar, beefed-up engine and suspension etc. (OK, then, they are not sooo inexpensive anymore). What that factory does not offer, is illegal for the races, which keeps costs resonable.

Why not taking the cup idea of identical cars competing against eachother off road? What about Ford offering a "cup version" of the Wrangler fighter (with taller wheels, locking differential and some other goodies for example) and then organizing a series of off road events througout the country.

The events could be something like RTV trials, which are extremely popular throughout Europe (you need to pass obstacles without touching the poles marking the way. Touching the poles, reversing, using several attemps to pass an obstacle etc. gets punished with penalty points. Winner is who adds up the fewest points) Trials mostly are non-damaging to the vehicle and therefore a good oportunity for newbys to get off road experience without risking too much. On the other hand, it requires extreme driving skills for not adding up lot's of penalty points, which means it's very challanging and competitive for the experienced 4-wheelers. Just drivers who really dominate their rig have a chance for over all victory.

Compared to other motor sports events, trials are not very expensive, but they are very attractive for spectators, because there is a lot of action going on in a restricted area. They could help Ford to establsih themselves in the 4-wheel community.

Just an idea on Labor Day :D

[Edited by donkey boy on 09-04-2000 at 08:30 AM]
 






Trials

I agree with donkey boy, trial groups would be great. Even for my actual Explorer, it would be fun to get my wife to know more about 4x4 other than "I broke an axle,and the trans...". I dont want extreme trail, just some occasionnal fun with my stock four by.
 






No new ideas?

Just pushing this thread back to the top of the list!
 






New ideas? No not really. Accually I just sit there and think that its gonna be cheaper for me to build something the way I want to then to wait for a manufacturer to come out with anything worth while. So I would much prefer to start with something older anyway. :) Something simple. :) KISS is something that is totaly lost on most car makers at this point in time.
 






It looks like Ford is going to bring back the Defender to the US. A redesign to make it more " recreation friendly", less military and farm like. Hope they dont go too far. Will still be a premium branded product, meaning $$$$$- maybe they debadge it and sell it as a Ford Ex???...

Blurb this am

Dead Link Removed
 



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All I see in this rebadging is the company to make another well prices 'Yuppie' cruiser. Telling the people that the redesigned defender( whatever the new name is) is sporting a full floating locker in the rear and manual hub,.... are selling points to only a select few who are going to use them to their fullest. I look at Infinity, BMW, Mercedes and see nothing but people trying to impress someone else with their trophy. Spend the money on whatever you want now, or save it for later when you will need it.

I know, kinda off the subject.
 






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