Camshaft pos sens? No code but intermittent squeal from rear of engine.

[drdoug]

on my 1995 4.0 OBD1 I have the what I thought was a camshaft position sensor issue but I have no codes. No engine light blinking. Anybody had this experience ? It is not a constant noise. Often goes away if I restart engine. Fluctuates with rpm. When it happens and shift into neutral it continues and also happens at different speeds. Can I scavenge a sensor from years prior ? LKQ is open today ! Thanks and have a great day

 

[fast_dave]

The "squeak" in the rear of your engine compartment is the sign that the Camshaft Position Syncronizer is on the way out.

To clarify - that is the ASSEMBLY that the Camshaft Position Sensor sits on top of.

In the picture BELOW, the sensor is the black part.

OK - back to your situation; the fact that your Syncronizer is squeaking intermittent is your initial warning - eventually it will squeak all the time, throw a code, and you'll shut down.

What's going on is the steel shaft riding inside of the aluminum body has gummed up with varnish and "coked" oil, and that has cause wear condition that will only get worse until eventual catastrophic failure. The squeak is the shaft "flopping" around inside the aluminum body due to the increase in tolerances.

If you can get a used one LKQ go for it. Of course, it'll be as old as the one you have, and they are a wear and tear part completely dependent on mileage and oil change quality & frequency.

When swapping your used one into your Ex, BEFORE REMOVING YOUR OLD ASSEMBLY - pay attention to the direction that your old assembly is pointed and make a reference mark somewhere that you can align the new assembly to.

Here's a pic of the Camshaft Position Syncronizer and the Alignment Tool.

There is a wealth of info on the process here and on the net (you tube).

Let us know how it pans out and Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

 

[FijiBill]

Unhook the harness and the two 5.5 mm bolts and remove the sensor on top (no danger doing this). You'll be able to now see the direction the synchronizer is pointing. It's easiest to do this by removing the coil pack and using a cell phone to see down the back of the engine.

You can take a syringe and squirt a little bit of 5w30 into the top of the syncronizer. Then put the sensor back on top. If the syncronizer is the problem that will quiet it down for a month or so. Then you know if it is the problem.

Thats a temporary fix. You need to replace the synchronizer if it is bad. The synchronizer also drives the oil pump so if it freezes up you'll loose all oil pressure and destroy the engine very quickly.

The "squeak" is the sign that the Camshaft Position Syncronizer is on the way out.

To clarify - that is the ASSEMBLY that the Camshaft Position Sensor sits on top of.

In the picture BELOW, the sensor is the black part.

OK - back to your situation; the fact that your Syncronizer is squeaking intermittent is your initial warning - eventually it will squeak all the time, throw a code, and you'll shut down.

What's going on is the steel shaft riding inside of the aluminum body has gummed up with varnish and "coked" oil, and that has cause wear condition that will only get worse until eventual catastrophic failure. The squeak is the shaft "flopping" around inside the aluminum body due to the increase in tolerances.

If you can get a used one LKQ go for it. Of course, it'll be as old as the one you have, and they are a wear and tear part completely dependent on mileage and oil change quality & frequency.

When swapping your used one into your Ex, BEFORE REMOVING YOUR OLD ASSEMBLY - pay attention to the direction that your old assembly is pointed and make a reference mark somewhere that you can align the new assembly to.

Here's a pic of the Camshaft Position Syncronizer and the Alignment Tool.

There is a wealth of info on the process here and on the net (you tube).

Let us know how it pans out and Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

 

[lobo411]

I thought I had a bad camshaft position synchro, but then I tried taking off the belt and running the engine for a minute or two. No more noise. I ended up replacing my belt with a Goodyear Gatorback and the noise never came back. My noise did sound like it was in the front of the engine, but it's worth trying the above...you might just get lucky!

 

[drdoug]

The "squeak" in the rear of your engine compartment is the sign that the Camshaft Position Syncronizer is on the way out.

To clarify - that is the ASSEMBLY that the Camshaft Position Sensor sits on top of.

In the picture BELOW, the sensor is the black part.

OK - back to your situation; the fact that your Syncronizer is squeaking intermittent is your initial warning - eventually it will squeak all the time, throw a code, and you'll shut down.

What's going on is the steel shaft riding inside of the aluminum body has gummed up with varnish and "coked" oil, and that has cause wear condition that will only get worse until eventual catastrophic failure. The squeak is the shaft "flopping" around inside the aluminum body due to the increase in tolerances.

If you can get a used one LKQ go for it. Of course, it'll be as old as the one you have, and they are a wear and tear part completely dependent on mileage and oil change quality & frequency.

When swapping your used one into your Ex, BEFORE REMOVING YOUR OLD ASSEMBLY - pay attention to the direction that your old assembly is pointed and make a reference mark somewhere that you can align the new assembly to.

Here's a pic of the Camshaft Position Syncronizer and the Alignment Tool.

There is a wealth of info on the process here and on the net (you tube).

Let us know how it pans out and Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

 

[drdoug]

I will update when I can its super cold and not a nice time to be working on an engine. Thank you very much for your input and advice.

 

[drdoug]

I thought I had a bad camshaft position synchro, but then I tried taking off the belt and running the engine for a minute or two. No more noise. I ended up replacing my belt with a Goodyear Gatorback and the noise never came back. My noise did sound like it was in the front of the engine, but it's worth trying the above...you might just get lucky!

Thanks for your input. I have had new belts. A new alternator. A new tensioner pulley etc. The noise always goes away and it is definitely from the back end. Thanks again !

 

[drdoug]

Unhook the harness and the two 5.5 mm bolts and remove the sensor on top (no danger doing this). You'll be able to now see the direction the synchronizer is pointing. It's easiest to do this by removing the coil pack and using a cell phone to see down the back of the engine.

You can take a syringe and squirt a little bit of 5w30 into the top of the syncronizer. Then put the sensor back on top. If the syncronizer is the problem that will quiet it down for a month or so. Then you know if it is the problem.

Thats a temporary fix. You need to replace the synchronizer if it is bad. The synchronizer also drives the oil pump so if it freezes up you'll loose all oil pressure and destroy the engine very quickly.

That will be an easier route to take. If I can quiet it down a bit. Should I unhook my wires from the coil pack when doing this ? Thanks !

 

[fast_dave]

@drdoug

Seriously; The steel on aluminium squeaking within the camshaft position body/assembly is literally "the canary in the coal mine" warning you that "bad jo-jo" is about happen...

The squeaking/chirping sound is caused when during it's rotation, the drive shaft is getting hung up and then it releases. The effect that has on the drive gear roll pin is like an impact gun.

Thus - the biggest fear is that due to the impact gun effect, the SMALL DIAMETER roll pin that holds the oil pump drive gear is shearing and will eventually break, which will instantly cause your engine oil pump to stop operating, thus killing your engine.

2nd Best Tip I have to offer: Take off the hood when performing the exchange. It's just 4 bolts and will make the job so much easier...

Don't forget to reference mark where the hood attaches to the brackets.

Reference mark on your firewall where your old cps roter is pointing before cps assembly removal. Everything has to line up when you reinstall the new cps body & roter.

Hope that helps!

 

[410Fortune]

Having a 95 does not help the 95 cam sensor is a one year thing, possibly late 94-95. The 95 style sensor is a bit different from 96+
However after this has been discussed here on EF in the last few months it appears that you can replace your 95 Cam synchro with one from a 96 as the 95 part can be hard to get and hard to align/time

There are some recent threads on this

 

[drdoug]

@drdoug

Seriously; The steel on aluminium squeaking within the camshaft position body/assembly is literally "the canary in the coal mine" warning you that "bad jo-jo" is about happen...

The squeaking/chirping sound is caused when during it's rotation, the drive shaft is getting hung up and then it releases. The effect that has on the drive gear roll pin is like an impact gun.

Thus - the biggest fear is that due to the impact gun effect, the SMALL DIAMETER roll pin that holds the oil pump drive gear is shearing and will eventually break, which will instantly cause your engine oil pump to stop operating, thus killing your engine.

2nd Best Tip I have to offer: Take off the hood when performing the exchange. It's just 4 bolts and will make the job so much easier...

Don't forget to reference mark where the hood attaches to the brackets.

Reference mark on your firewall where your old cps roter is pointing before cps assembly removal. Everything has to line up when you reinstall the new cps body & roter.

Hope that helps!

So as long as it’s lined up are you not concerned with #1 piston being tdc? I see several posts mentioning having to remove a plug at #1 etc...but then others do not.
Thank you.

 

[410Fortune]

here is how it works
Your current cam sensor is aligned to the engine (in time)
So to replace it, as long as you install the new synchro in the engine in the exact same spot (the flag points the exact same way as the one you took out) then you do not need to align/time anything.
Now if you cannot determine the position the old one was in (say the synchro is broken and not spinning) then you will have to time the new synchronizer to the engine
Just like replacing a distributor of yesteryear

 

[fast_dave]

What he said ^^^^^^^^

*high-five*

 

[imp]

@fast_dave Years ago, after rebuilding my 289 and using a Mellings high volume oil pump, the engine quit while moving everything from Vegas to Colorado, in the middle of Navajo Country, middle of nowhere, actually. Wouldn't start or fire at all, yanked distributor cap off, bumped starter from solenoid, rotor stood still. Pulled distributor out, roll-pin sheared. Fortunately, I had plenty of tools with me, and my two cats, who enjoyed the stop languishing along the roadside in a new place for them. Had a set of number drills and a micrometer, chose a drill bit about 0.003" bigger on shank than nominal roll-pin size, which I think was 1/8". Hacksawed off the shank of that bit (HS drills have soft shanks), drove it into the distributor shaft, and peened over the ends of the bit.

Problem never recurred. From then on, I've hated roll pins. imp

 

[fast_dave]

@imp

Great story!!!
No doubt the high volume oil pump over stressed the stock roll pin and sheared it off.
Man, you lucked out by having the right tools at the right time! Love the out of the box thinking!
I always appreciate the real world roadside repair stories - especially the ones that when completed, at the time, are considered to be temporary - BUT as time goes and the roadside fix is proven to be better than the original factory engineering, become permanent.

The factory roll pin in the camshaft position sensor assembly is a known weak point, THUS the MODS should consider giving it STICKY STATUS.

 

[imp]

@imp

Great story!!!
No doubt the high volume oil pump over stressed the stock roll pin and sheared it off.
Man, you lucked out by having the right tools at the right time! Love the out of the box thinking!
I always appreciate the real world roadside repair stories - especially the ones that when completed, at the time, are considered to be temporary - BUT as time goes and the roadside fix is proven to be better than the original factory engineering, become permanent.

The factory roll pin in the camshaft position sensor assembly is a known weak point, THUS the MODS should consider giving it STICKY STATUS.

@fast_dave
Thanks for the compliments. It happened I was moving, and had almost all my small tools with me. Otherwise I was in deep ****. I crapped out near the big Peabody Coal Mine, and a Native American just going home from work stopped to help. Only a few miles ahead was Kayenta, AZ. He warned me the big annual Fair began the next day, Saturday, and if I left the truck parked in town, the fancy white wheels and big tires would be gone overnight! He claimed by Sunday morning, the town would be littered with guys sleeping the night's carousing off. I thanked him, and worked quicker. Don't recall how much farther I went that evening, but it was some small, quiet town, still Reservation, of course, that's huge, and the cats and I got a good night's sleep! This happened enroute to a new job in Canon City, Colorado in 1977. imp

 

[Runnin'OnEmpty]

I've been waiting for the infamous cam syncro squeal, and now it's here.
My problem is how to access the syncro on a 2000 OHV engine?
Someone recommended removing the hood. I know removing the upper
intake manifold will gain a bit more room, but man I'm dreading that again.

Any tips on gaining access to work on this, without a lot of extra work?

 

[FijiBill]

I was able to change mine out just by removing the coil pack. After that you can run a camera app and place your cell phone on top of the back of the upper intake manifold. The display will let you look down the back of the engine and see what you are working on. No need to remove the hood.

A socket on the two 5.5 mm sensor bolts will clear the underside of the lower intake just barely. Pop off the sensor top. Now with your well positioned phone TAKE PHOTOS OF THE TOP OF THE OLD SYNC so you can match the flag position exactly when you replace it with the new sync.

Then unbolt the hold down and lift out the sync. Be sure to put some oil on the gears of the new sync and drop it in. Make sure the flag position matches the photos. With luck you'll get the right tooth the first time. If not lift out and reinsert. Remember that bolting down the hold down bolt will pull down the sync and cause the flag to rotate more.

A pretty easy job. Much easier than removing the intake!

I've been waiting for the infamous cam syncro squeal, and now it's here.
My problem is how to access the syncro on a 2000 OHV engine?
Someone recommended removing the hood. I know removing the upper
intake manifold will gain a bit more room, but man I'm dreading that again.

Any tips on gaining access to work on this, without a lot of extra work?

 

[Runnin'OnEmpty]

Thank you FiJiBill. I'll unbolt my coilpack and see if that gives me enough room.
I have a 5.5mm socket, along with phone, mirrors, lights, etc. This will be a huge
time saver if it works for me. I liked it when you said it's "A pretty easy job." lol

 

[koda2000]

On the 5.0L the cam sync does not squeal when it starts to go bad. It "chips". I don't know if it would make a similar noise on the 4.0L OHV, but I would assume so as the synchronizer is of the same basic design.

I had the chirp on a '00 5.0L and first thought it was a pulley or possibly the serpentine belt. I removed the belt and started the engine and the chirping noise was still there. Someone suggested I add a few drops of ATF under the sensor to lube the synchronizer's shaft (easy to do on the 5.0L as it's on the front of the engine). I did the the chirp went away. I figured having to replace the synchronizer was in my near future. That was maybe 4-5 years ago and the chirp has never returned.

Recently the truck developed a short squeal at startup. I thought it might be the synchronizer again, so I oiled it again, but the squeal at startup remained. This time it was the belt. I suggest (if you haven't tried it) you remove the belt and see if the noise goes away.