Can the CEL be permanantly turned off???

[03Mach1]

Long story short, around the begining of the year the timming chains in my 03 4.0 let loose. Not having the time to deal with it I paid a mechanic to put a new engine in the X. About a day after I picked the truck up the CEL came on. The code was 0401 Insufficient EGR flow. I called the mech.(seeing as he replaced all EGR components wuith the new motor) and he said to bring it in when I got a chance but that I could drive it till then without worry. So I finaly had time to bring it in this week and picked it back up yesterday as the mech said it was fixed. While driving it home I noticed it still had a gittery idle and I noticed a screw in the cup holder that looks exactly like the ones that hold the dash board together. So when I got home I put the cluster into test mode and when you get to the screen where it checks the bulbs the CEL did not light up. Also when you insert the key and turn it to the ACC position the CEL does not come on either.

So I thought this MF'er pulled the bulb so I proceeded to pull the cluster out only to find that there is a bulb in place it is just not lighting up. So is there any way this guy could have disabled the CEL besides removing the bulb?

Also when I got home before I pulled the cluster I put my cheap code reader on the truck and it once again showed 0401. At this point I am not sure if he cleared the code meaning I am just reading the old code. If I disconnect the + battery lead for about 20-30 min shouldn't that clear all stored codes?

 

[apolo607]

check when turning on the key switch

I know that the bulb must be working fine if at turning on the key swich you see that the cel ligths up (as well as all the others), then after some seconds they must came off.

 

[Varsity]

I don't believe you can disable a CEL besides just removing it. Did it just burn out coincidentally?

 

[BrianDye]

Sounds like it burnt out...id be calling back giving him an earful!

 

[03Mach1]

The bulb does not come on at ACC or for a few seconds when you start the truck, nor does it come on when you get the cluster into test mode. Pretty much the bulb will not light up for anything.

I thought about the bulb burning out but honestly I think it is a bit too much of a coincidence that the light was lit up when I dropped the truck off Monday evening and now when I pick it up Wednesday evening the light is burnt out.

I guess I could always pull the cluster out and take one of the 4x4 bulbs out and put it into the spot where the CEL should be and see what happens.

Would I be correct in assuming that if I disconnect the battery I should be able to pull the cluster switch the bulbs and put it all back in without F'ing anything up??

 

[BrianDye]

Very easy todo it. I dont even disconnect the battery usually.

But heres another one to think about...
Maybe he had a old bulb he put in that he knew was burnt out...

 

[Turdle]

light which has been burning long will burn out. Coincidences happen. Seriously. That is why we have a word for then when they do.

 

[03Mach1]

light which has been burning long will burn out. Coincidences happen. Seriously. That is why we have a word for then when they do.

Yeah but the bulbs that light the gauges have been burning alot longer than the CEL and they are still going. I have also been having the door ajar problem which keeps that light lit and it is still burning just fine.

If the light was out and the code did not show up when I put my scan tool on the OBD I might chalk it up as an unusual coincidence.

However I found a screw in the cup holder that I know for a fact was not there when I dropped it off as I took all of my stuff out of the car prior to dropping it off. When I started to pull everything apart there was a screw, just like the one in the cup holder, missing from the main trim panel that goes around the gauges. So I see the screw, the code still shows up, and the CEL is burned out at the same time. Too many coincidences here to not think this mechanic is trying to bend me over his work bench here.

What really gets me is when he told me I needed to pay more money for the EGR parts as they "are plastic and broke when they were taking everything apart" So I never had an EGR related issue, he replaces all of the EGR parts and now I have the problem. Maybe if his wrench turners would have taken a little more care they would not have broken the original parts.

Guess I will swap bulbs when I get home and see what happens.

 

[Javadog123]

I knew a real ass once who was going to paint the dash black over the cel light to hide it and sell the car. Look for paint?

 

[waskly]

key on engine off, the cel should come on, if it dont, the bulb is out, if you think they pulled it, and put in a burn out one.... w/e bulbs burn out. there is no life span.

put a bulb back, and tell him the cel came back on..... see what he does, if you know you put a new bulb in, and its burnt out again.... then you got problems.

 

[03Mach1]

Well figured I would give a little update here. Got the cluster out last night to swap the CEL bulb out with one of the 4x4 bulbs that I know were good beacause they lit up during the HEC bulb test. Once I had access to the backside of the cluster I could not for the life of me remember which one was the CEL so since I had a flashlight handy I started to shine it from the back to light up the gauges. I almost started second guessing myself here as I could not for the life of me find the CEL spot. I flipped the gauges over to look at the front and after holding it close to my face I must have angled it just right so that I could see the faint CEL writing. I took the flashlight and put it dead behind that opening and nothing. The light would not come through. I looked down into the holes and the only thing I noticed was that looking down the CEL hole I could not see the writting like I could in every other hole.

So at this point I started to try and seperate the gauges, but not knowing how far I could go without screwing something up I just kind of seperated the side that the CEL was on and low and behold what do I see, somehow in one of the weirdest instances of circumstance I have ever seen in my life a piece of electrical tape magicly found its way on the back side of the gauges so that the light would not shine through.

So I removed the tape and got everything back together and when I re-connected the battery and started it up the CEL did not come back on. It comes on with the HEC bulb test and it comes on like it should during KOEO though. I drove it for about 5 min to see if the CEL would trip on the P0401 Insufficient EGR flow again but it did not. So at this point I am not sure if he really did fix the problem or if I just need to put some more miles on the car in order to trip the CEL again??

Either way I am PO'ED to say the very least. I have a 3 year 100k P&L warranty on the new engine through this guys shop and now I am wondering if I ever need another repair will I get a band aid or will he truely fix it. I am waiting to call this guy later on today and tell him about my little discovery.

 

[Turdle]

Well figured I would give a little update here. Got the cluster out last night to swap the CEL bulb out with one of the 4x4 bulbs that I know were good beacause they lit up during the HEC bulb test. Once I had access to the backside of the cluster I could not for the life of me remember which one was the CEL so since I had a flashlight handy I started to shine it from the back to light up the gauges. I almost started second guessing myself here as I could not for the life of me find the CEL spot. I flipped the gauges over to look at the front and after holding it close to my face I must have angled it just right so that I could see the faint CEL writing. I took the flashlight and put it dead behind that opening and nothing. The light would not come through. I looked down into the holes and the only thing I noticed was that looking down the CEL hole I could not see the writting like I could in every other hole.

So at this point I started to try and seperate the gauges, but not knowing how far I could go without screwing something up I just kind of seperated the side that the CEL was on and low and behold what do I see, somehow in one of the weirdest instances of circumstance I have ever seen in my life a piece of electrical tape magicly found its way on the back side of the gauges so that the light would not shine through.

So I removed the tape and got everything back together and when I re-connected the battery and started it up the CEL did not come back on. It comes on with the HEC bulb test and it comes on like it should during KOEO though. I drove it for about 5 min to see if the CEL would trip on the P0401 Insufficient EGR flow again but it did not. So at this point I am not sure if he really did fix the problem or if I just need to put some more miles on the car in order to trip the CEL again??

Either way I am PO'ED to say the very least. I have a 3 year 100k P&L warranty on the new engine through this guys shop and now I am wondering if I ever need another repair will I get a band aid or will he truely fix it. I am waiting to call this guy later on today and tell him about my little discovery.

I'm pretty sure you have a good leg to stand on here--take pictures of the tape now. Save that tape--it is evidence of a federal law being violated.

That is tampering with the emmisions system.

 

[Varsity]

That's just terrible. The guts of some people, I tell ya. If that were me, I'd probably take it a lot further than just complaining to his shop. If there's a higher up or some kind of business bureau, I'd report that. He's not only doing crappy work, but potentially harming your vehicle and yourself by not letting you know what was wrong. Someone would pay big time if they were tinkering with my truck and blocking it's warning signs from me. I would do it just to bring this guy back to earth. I've seen cases on TV where people have won for this kind of stuff.

 

[03Mach1]

I'm pretty sure you have a good leg to stand on here--take pictures of the tape now. Save that tape--it is evidence of a federal law being violated.

Well from the outset I figured this could turn into some form of legal action. I have photos documenting everything. I took a picture of the screw in the cupholder there the "tech" forgot it, a picture of the cluster in HEC mode during the bulb test that clearly shows the CEL not lit up. I also took pictures of the spot where that bolt was missing from and I have a decent amount of pictures of the tape in place and once removed. I also kept the piece of tape in a zip lock bag.

What federal law was being violated here if you don't mind me asking?

I called the local DA's office and they sent me to the automotive fraud division at the AG's office who pretty much just asked what I would like to get out of it and that they could file a complaint and if that did not get anywhere then I would have to go to small claims court.

My feeling at this point is I would like at a minimum 50% refund on the install of the new engine. My feelings are that if this shop would go through the trouble of putting electrical tape over the CEL what will they do next time if I bring it in for a repair? They have clearly demonstrated that they have no problems cutting corners on their work, and what if the next time they decide to cut a corner it is on something that could put the vehicles safe operation at risk, and in effect its passengers.

Yeah fortunately this is not my first rodeo, I have been turning wrenches since I was a kid and have done more than my fair share of repairs which is probably why I picked up on all of this so quickly. On the other hand had this been a non car person's vehicle they probably would have never noticed that the light was not coming on to even bother investigating it. I told this guy the first time I talked to him that I could have easily pulled the motor, re-built and re-installed it myself I just did not have the time to do it myself at this point which is why I was bringing it to him to do. You would think that he should have put 2 and 2 together enough to realize that this was going to be discovered in very short order.

I talked to him already, he was apologetic and claimed one of his techs must have done it when he was not paying attention and that he is going to put a $50.00 check in the mail to me to cover my time spent trying to replace the bulb. I was very calm and collected on the phone and held my temper to a point that it has never been held before. I am guessing it would have taken the tech about 1 hour to remove the cluster, place the tape, and re-install the cluster, there is no way the owner of the shop did not notice this guy working in the car instead of under the hood. Add to that the owner said he test drove it and everything was ok, seeing as he says he has been a mechanic for 40+ years he should have very well noticed that the CEL did not light up when he went to start the truck.

I am going to let this play out a bit further, I am sure by the end of the weekend the CEL will be back on showing me the same P0401 code it had when I brought it in. There are only 2 reasons to put the tape on the light either they did not fix the original problem or they were trying to keep me from ever seeing another CEL that they would have to deal with under warranty.

 

[Turdle]

I am certain that tampering with the check engine light is tampering with the emmisions system, which is a huge federal violation. Now it is time to find someone who is willing to do their job, instead of worrying about what you want to get out of it. Ask to talk to supervisors if you get this response.

 

[Javadog123]

What did it tell you? These friggin people. Besides the savings, this is the main reason I do all do my own repairs. It's the only way to insure it's done right. Don't cash his $50 check. It might show agreement by you that you are satisfied with the results. You should get a hell of a lot more because that is outright fraud.

 

[03Mach1]

I do not plan on cashing the check. I feel that his reaction and quick agreement to send a check to me is as good as an admission of guilt. After looking around it seems as though he violated atleast 1 US code as it relates to tampering with emissions systems on vehicles and or altering the check engine light to conceal emissions related issues. I have to look into it a bit more but it would seem he also commited an act refered to as "Fradulent Concealement" by intentionaly covering up the light to make me think the repair was made.

So the saga continues, I have some homework to do on all of this before I decide which course of action I am going to take. To be honest I am not nearly worried about the money as much as I am about the vehicle. If they are willing to go through that mouch trouble to hide the CEL what will happen if I have to bring it in for something else???

Usually I do all of my own repairs, I have never let a mechanic touch my Mach 1 or my previous cars either. When the engine took a dump in the X I did not have the luxury of time to do the work myself so I had no choice, as for the P0401 that popped up after the repair I usually would have just fixed it myself but the cost of the parts and the fact that I have a warranty on them from when he replaced them with the engine I thought that I should not have to take my time and money to fix what I paid him for.

 

[Varsity]

Good luck with this, I am glad to see that this type of fraud is being dealt with, not just ignored. Like you said, this was a little thing, but you never know what else could happen especially if you take it back to them. If anything, this will just hopefully scare the crap outta them and teach them a lesson. Unfortunately not everything is a DIY project, you should be able to get work done honestly and safely.

 

[D Hook]

Hopefully you can keep us updated on how this turns out.

 

[waskly]

alot of shady people out there. that sucks bro.