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Discussion in 'Ham Radio - CB - Trail Communications' started by Ray Hutchinson, June 2, 2001.

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  1. Ray Hutchinson

    Ray Hutchinson Moderator Emeritus

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    Hi ALL,

    Not to be a "Stick in the Mud", or whatever,But I feel, as Moderator of this group, a responsibility and that I would be direlict to not call to the attention of any of us that use or are contemplating using Modified, "Peeked", "Export" etc., CB radios, or "Hammers", "Mauls". "Pills", "Modulators", or other devices that are linear amplifiers, that operate or boost power beyond the FCC legal 4 watt output limit.

    Also. I feel I should caution everyone not to operate outside of the CB band (26.965 to 27.405 mHz).

    The Reason: The Federal Communications Comission (FCC) has been, for the last couple of years, on an enforcement campaign. They are a regulatory agency, and as such, have the power, just like the IRS, etc., to "Assess Regularatory Forfeitures" (Fines to you and me), without a trial. I would like to refer you to a CB/ Export radio dealer, (Copper Electronics) website, where they have a section titled "Busted" that lists recent FCC enforcement actions against CB ops, and "Freebanders". The fines range from $1000 to $13,000! IOW, this could be pretty expensive!. I understand that the FCC now uses the US Military's Satellite tracking system that can pinpoint locate and ID low power radio transmitters with incredible accuracy.

    All of this is just a word of caution. Here's the "Busted" url:

    <www.copper.com/fcc_reports.shtml>
     
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  3. Locksmith

    Locksmith New Member

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    Well, up here in the land of freedom (Canada for those of you who don't know), we keep our government agencies underfunded enough that they tend to leave everyone alone.

    If you REALLY REALLY stir it up, they'll write you a letter asking you to stop.

    How do you americans tolerate an agency that can act as sherrif, judge and jury and just arbitrarily assign a fine? I thought that would be against your constitution.
     
  4. Sandy

    Sandy Well-Known Member

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    I won't touch this one.
     
  5. REALWYLDWON

    REALWYLDWON New Member

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    :hammer: Ok I know that the horse is dead but I'm still a whippin' it!

    FCC Armature tests cost about 6 bucks (give or take a few cents), the study manuals cost anywhere from 5 to 25 bucks per... MUCH cheaper than paying a fine, plus you have the legal opportunity to use upwards of a Kilowatt!!! (Over kill in my book but you can do it if you choose)

    Let's see here, up to a $13,000 fine for running a cheaply made amp that does more for your signal on adjacent channels than on the one you want to use... and remember gang, if you can't hear em, you can't work them... Having the ability to talk an additional 10 miles or so on the CB does no good if you can't hear who you want to talk to (remember "shooting skip" on 11M is also illegal.

    Spend the 100 bucks or so for testing and study material, learn the code even if you never intend on using it (it's more fun that it may seem at first and you will need it to use all of the available privileges) and get your ticket... You can talk farther on the HF freqs. using 4 watts than ever could on the CB, plus you have the potential for so much more power, (most rigs put out 100W barefoot) you don't end up "splattering" your signal across the whole band because of a cheaply made amp... plus there are SO MANY COOL toys in the Ham hobby... Digital modes, SSTV (Slow Scan TV) Moon bounce, satellites work, repeater linking...

    73
     
  6. Sandy

    Sandy Well-Known Member

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    $10 for testing now!
    Everything gets more expensive.

    73,
     
  7. Stompah

    Stompah HAWAIIAN NITEMARE

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    Oh dear... here we go...

    Ok I know that the horse is dead but I'm still a whippin' it!

    FCC Armature tests cost about 6 bucks (give or take a few cents), the study manuals cost anywhere from 5 to 25 bucks per... MUCH cheaper than paying a fine, plus you have the legal opportunity to use upwards of a Kilowatt!!! (Over kill in my book but you can do it if you choose)

    Let's see here, up to a $13,000 fine for running a cheaply made amp that does more for your signal on adjacent channels than on the one you want to use... and remember gang, if you can't hear em, you can't work them... Having the ability to talk an additional 10 miles or so on the CB does no good if you can't hear who you want to talk to (remember "shooting skip" on 11M is also illegal.

    Spend the 100 bucks or so for testing and study material, learn the code even if you never intend on using it (it's more fun that it may seem at first and you will need it to use all of the available privileges) and get your ticket... You can talk farther on the HF freqs. using 4 watts than ever could on the CB, plus you have the potential for so much more power, (most rigs put out 100W barefoot) you don't end up "splattering" your signal across the whole band because of a cheaply made amp... plus there are SO MANY COOL toys in the Ham hobby... Digital modes, SSTV (Slow Scan TV) Moon bounce, satellites work, repeater linking...


    Now go and look at all the people who got busted in the last 3 years... HAMs were being busted more than CBers 3:1. Riley and his crew are sure cleaning it up... All the ham testing in the world will not bring the whole aspect of 11m DXing into a corral and make eveything all goody goody. Have you ever noticed that since the last sunspot cycle, the numbers of so called "busts" have slightly dropped then BAM peaked again in the last 3 years??? I wonder why... oh! Maybe now that propagation had reached its peak and now on the downhill run that more and more radio traffic (local, DX, harmonics) have been monitored throughout the spectrum. You watch... it'll all be back to normal and the HAMs will be nice and toastie for the next 6 years until the next sunspot cycle starts to rise...

    (BTW: I'm not trying to start a debate but lets not blame it all on the CBers...:nono: )
     
  8. mahieber

    mahieber Elite Explorer

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    Guess I better fill out that GMRS application huh???
     
  9. Sandy

    Sandy Well-Known Member

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    Ya do that.
    I think you can get about 1/2 mile talk range.

    If all you do is trail talk or a little in town talk it might be fine. BUT if everyone else is using a CB then what goo is the GMRS?

    Stick to a CB.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2002
  10. REALWYLDWON

    REALWYLDWON New Member

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    "Now go and look at all the people who got busted in the last 3 years... HAMs were being busted more than CBers 3:1. Riley and his crew are sure cleaning it up... All the ham testing in the world will not bring the whole aspect of 11m DXing into a corral and make eveything all goody goody. Have you ever noticed that since the last sunspot cycle, the numbers of so called "busts" have slightly dropped then BAM peaked again in the last 3 years??? I wonder why... oh! Maybe now that propagation had reached its peak and now on the downhill run that more and more radio traffic (local, DX, harmonics) have been monitored throughout the spectrum. You watch... it'll all be back to normal and the HAMs will be nice and toastie for the next 6 years until the next sunspot cycle starts to rise...

    (BTW: I'm not trying to start a debate but lets not blame it all on the CBers... )''


    True a lot of HAM's are in the wrong too... and even though were supposed to be "self policing" everyone knows that doesn't work well, heck listen to the 75M phone band some evening, sounds like a high shcool locker room (and yes some of those guys run upwards of 3KW, and should get nailed to the wall for it...

    When I was a CB'er the enjoyment for me was rag chewing... didn't get into all of the noise makers, and couldn't stand splatter (cross channel) from people running cheap illegal amps (or "peaked and tweaked" radios. Some amps for 11M are very quiet and well made, (some are converted 10M amps) had no problem with those illegal or not).

    The question about 11M amps being legal was what I was trying to address, I had a blast on 11M before I got my ticket, and have had even more fun with my Extra, not because I feel HAM's are better than CB'ers, but because of the massive rag chewing potential... Please understand, not blaming CB'ers for anything, (now that I live in the middle of no-where PA I will be putting one in my X, but also don't want to see someone get into trouble ($$) by trying to get an extra 20 miles from their Cobra... :chug:
     
  11. Big Bear Bob

    Big Bear Bob Active Member

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    How tough are the tests? How many weeks or months of study does it take?, and afterward can you use the 10 meter band?
     
  12. tripleoption

    tripleoption Active Member

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    I took the no-code exam in 8th grade. I read the Radio Shack/WB6NOA book cover to cover on Friday and I aced the test Saturday, 100%. That didn't get me 10M privileges, but it got my foot in the door, just to see what the Ham world looks like. From what I remember about the test questions, you should get by with knowledge of resistors, Ohm's Law, Power Law (=voltagexcurrent), a bit about antennas, and more importantly when just beginning, frequency allocation and general operating practices for your license. To get 10M, I think nowadays you still need to demonstrate 5wpm code, but after that you can do written tests for all the license upgrades.

    Good Luck.

    Oh, and whoever that was that was dissing the United States, shut up. You live in Canada. Enough said.
     
  13. tripleoption

    tripleoption Active Member

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    Mr. Locksmith, Canada has it's own problems with big government. You have a point though. We tax and spend too much to do too little for too few. The way you talk, I'd assume you're against national health care in Canada, eh??? How about your gun control laws?

    "[the United States] can't be so fixed on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans..."
    -- President William Clinton, March 1, 1993 during a press conference in Piscataway, NJ, source: Boston Globe, 3/2/93, page 3

    " the purpose of government is to reign in the rights of the people"
    -- Bill Clinton during an interview on MTV in 1993

    The same people that support this "man" also promote Al Gore. You have a point. How we tolerate it, I do not know.
     
  14. tripleoption

    tripleoption Active Member

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    Anyways, back to Explorers and Hams...
     
  15. Peter

    Peter Active Member

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    Mr Canada...being a firefighter I can tell you partly why you cant operate out of certain frequencies on a CB and that is because in America we take pride in effective fire/police/ems and for that to happen you cant have people jumping all over frequencies screwing up dispatch and communications...so there!
     
  16. Stompah

    Stompah HAWAIIAN NITEMARE

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    Mr Canada...being a firefighter I can tell you partly why you cant operate out of certain frequencies on a CB and that is because in America we take pride in effective fire/police/ems and for that to happen you cant have people jumping all over frequencies screwing up dispatch and communications...so there!


    True...
     
  17. njsjfonline

    njsjfonline Elite Explorer

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    SO

    A peaked and tuned only running 4 walts. I do know it's dead on. And i can get fined for a dead on CB?
     
  18. Stompah

    Stompah HAWAIIAN NITEMARE

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    A peaked and tuned only running 4 walts. I do know it's dead on. And i can get fined for a dead on CB?


    What the hell was that about?


    "...peaked and tuned only running 4 walts." That's not peaked and tuned. What's a walt?

    "...i can get fined for a dead on CB?" No. If you're within 4 walts AM and 12 walts SSB, you're working well within the parameters of Part 97 FCC Regs for CB operation.
     
  19. Big Bear Bob

    Big Bear Bob Active Member

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    25 question tech test

    The test is a pain, but isn’t that tough. If you go to QRZ http://www.qrz.com/p/testing.pl they have practice tests that if you pass a few times you should pass the given FCC test.

    BTW I only paid $5.00 for my test last year.

    I honestly believe that if you have a peaked and tweaked radio running 20 watts or so on SSB. The FCC will never bother you. It's the guy's running a crappy over modulated mic’s on junk radios and gutter buster kilowatt + amp’s that are getting busted or need to get busted.

    But the point is a 5 watt 2 meter ht will be cleaner and talk further than a 20 watt SSB CB.

    I live in Big Bear Ca. not too far from L.A. and with a 5-watt 2 meter hand held can talk on the Las Vegas repeater about 250 miles away. Go a step further and get something like the Yasue FT-8900R quad band 29/50/144/430 MHZ VHF/UHF full duplex mobile at just over $400 and you’ll be the man.

    The truth is in case of an emergency a HAM radio of any sort will get you out of the sticks much better than any mobile C.B. will even if it’s peaked and tweaked with or without an amp.

    I don’t have anything against CB’s and have a few including a Cobra 148 GTL; that gets out pretty well and a Cobra HH37ST 4 watt 40-channel hand held that works ok on the trails to keep in touch on a group runs.

    But in cases of being out in the deep back woods, I use either a Yasue FT-2800M that runs 65 watts on high power or an ADI AT 201 HT that runs 5 watts on high power with a $19.00 dual band magnetic-mount antenna.
     
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