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Dealer not dealing ...

Discussion in 'Stock 2011 - 2019 Ford Explorer Discussion' started by grrtrainman, February 19, 2012.

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  1. grrtrainman

    grrtrainman Active Member

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    City, State:
    Western Mass, (summer), & SW Florida, (winter).
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    '13 Limited 4WD 302A Tow
    Okay, forum guys, what’da ya think of this dealer quote?

    2013 Limited AWD
    302A - (all the bells & whistles).
    White Platinum Tri
    Roof Rack Bars
    DP Moonroof
    All Weather mats

    Quote is $46,000 + 403.45 in fees

    Plus, they are low ball on my trade, ($3,000 below KBB, NADA, & Edmunds).

    I was NOT impressed . FYI: I do have the dealer invoice prices.

    I walked…


    :eek::eek:
     
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  3. spitfisher

    spitfisher Active Member

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    I don't know if this helps, but my 2011 Explorer XLT awd with the same package you have, white tricoat, 20 inch wheels, roof, bars etc listed out at 42 and change. The latter part of 2011 I worked it down to 36K and my trade was pretty generous-14K compared to everyone else offering 11500. 2012 were just arriving, just 1 or 2 on the lot.

    For what its worth it took me 4 visits before I signed. They need to qualify you as a buyer before they'll work numbers. Convince them that you are serious. Do not under any circumstances tell them how much you want to pay, nor how much you are willing to take on your trade. Play the game and be prepared to walk. Although this is a buyers market, there is not as much inventory around as you would think, certainly not like before. good luck
     
  4. grrtrainman

    grrtrainman Active Member

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    Thanks ...

    Good comments from "spitfisher" - much appreciated!
     
  5. suzook

    suzook Active Member

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    You won't get anywhere near kbb,nada, and Edmunds. Dealers use a trade in book by galves, its much less. If you do get close to kbb, you can bet they are making it up on the sales price of the new vehicle.
     
    Last edited: February 20, 2012
  6. mad_dog97

    mad_dog97 New Member

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    I had good luck by going to truecar.com and pricing the exact vehicle out. That may give you some leverage in pricing. I did that for my '12 with almost the same exact specs that you are looking for and paid under invoice (of course this was in December when the model year was closing out).
     
  7. peterk9

    peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    FYI, when I built your vehicle on Ford's website it came out to $48,580.
    If you are looking at a top of the line model, why settle for the 2nd rate (sorry Cory) all weather mats. You would be far better off getting the WeatherTech mats, or for maximum coverage, the Huskys. What ever deal you get, try and see if they will throw in the splash guards. I got them supplied and installed as part of my deal. Also keep in mind that you are likely to get a better deal near the end of a model year than the beginning.
    See what kind of a deal you can get without a trade.

    Peter
     
  8. drober30

    drober30 Active Member

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    $3K below KBB is normal. You might get another $500 if the dealer wants to sell a unit before months end.

    What is the invoice price? You want to pay invoice or $100-$200 above if possible.

    How many Ford dealers in your area? One will always beat the other if your willing to buy on the spot.
     
  9. cnsheets

    cnsheets Active Member

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    I purchased my 2011 in late June 2011, the dealerships were desperate for sales and were low on numbers. The original sales guy had passed me onto someone else as he said he was leaving for the day. I played their games for a bit, but they wanted to really low ball me on my trade. I ended up walking out because I felt all of their cheesy offers just were not even close to where I wanted to be. A week later, the original sales guy called me up desperate to find out what happened, why I walked, and what I needed to be comfortable talking to them about a deal. I flat out told him what I wanted. I was $6k upside down on my trade based on KBB trade in value, would have been over $8k if I accepted what they wanted to give me for my trade. (traded 2004 Expedition) When it was all said and done, after they took my trade, paid off the balance, tax, title, licensing, etc. I Paid $38K out the door for my new EX. Platinum metallic tri-coat White, 20" polished upgrade wheels, Black leather interior, factory tow package, power lift gate, heated seats, MFT package with reverse camera and stuff and factory NAV..........

    Point being, like everyone said, be prepared to walk and play their game.

    Oh, and what really pissed the dealership off was right at the end after all the paperwork was drawn up when I informed them I had my own financing. They thought they were sticking me with one of their lenders as a stupid ass rate.......
     
  10. hosedagain

    hosedagain Member

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    Just curious but whats included in the fees? what does it cover?
    Thanks
     
  11. briwayjones

    briwayjones Manual Master

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    Don't let them do the if we give you this much for your trade then the price of the vehicle will be such and such game. Talk about just one item at a time. Talk about the amount for the trade, get it set in stone. Then talk about and haggle the price of the vehicle.
     
  12. VinceL

    VinceL Well-Known Member

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    I only look for one thing, and that is the drive-out price. That is all that really matters in the end to us. I don't care how they get there, but get there they must. It's a pain making two deals. The hardest part is getting the salesperson to understand that, lol.
     
  13. peterk9

    peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I think you have that backwards. Most articles I've read suggest getting the deal for the vehicle first and then mention the trade. It's been my experience that you can get the best deal without a trade.
    Either way, the bottom line is that a dealer has to make some profit. That's why they are in business.

    Peter
     
  14. briwayjones

    briwayjones Manual Master

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    You can do it in any order and it may be better that way. I'm just saying make sure you get them to do one item at a time. None of the jockeying the price of one thing one way because you changed the price of the other item.
     
  15. grrtrainman

    grrtrainman Active Member

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    Man, ' very impressed with the thoughts out here in "explorerforum.com" land. Yup, I've played the game many times myself. One new thing learned was this "Galves" book the dealers use. Thanks Guys!
     
  16. lihtning

    lihtning New Member

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    Work out the price of the new vehicle....say you "doubt you're trading anything". Then come back with the trade.
     
  17. VinceL

    VinceL Well-Known Member

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    That's why I only go for drive-out. They can spin those numbers anyway they want, but I will only spend what I am willing to spend. If they lowball me on the trade, then my offer drops by that amount. I think this is simpler for us to due the fact we only buy, and our trade-ins are always payed off.

    Like I said earlier, the dealers don't like it because it gets a lot of the tricks they like to use off the table. No "We can get you in the car for this much a month" type stuff. When I go in, I have already calculated a monthly payment we are comfortable with, so we know what we are willing to spend on the car in the end.

    I also will type up an offer sheet. It lists the vehicle we want, with all of the options, a description of our trade-in, list of incentives that apply and what our offer is. The only numbers on that page are the incentives and the out-the-door price. It's up to them to spin the numbers to get to that amount. I'm even thinking of taking a kitchen timer and giving them a time limit (I hate when they waste your whole day dickin' around). It's one of those old fashioned ones that tick-tick-tick... lol.

    I think it all comes down to personality. Some people really like the challenge of haggling, others hate it, and some avoid it and pay too much. Still others hate it even more and just walk away to buy another day.

    When it comes time to buy or Ex, we'll see how it goes, and I'll be sure to post during the process.

    Happy driving.
     
  18. briwayjones

    briwayjones Manual Master

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    I like that, that's a good idea.
     
  19. jeeden

    jeeden Active Member

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    Stated here a bunch already, but I will chime in also:

    Definitely negotiate one thing at a time. I don't think they do it much anymore, but the old trick was the "quad chart" type of page where they would right now the car price, trade in, financing, etc in the quads and make it as confusing as possible. You can google an explanation. I have a pretty good relationship with the sales guy at my dealer, I have bought a lot of cars from him and he dispenses with the bull. My standard approach is usually:


    1. Find the car I want. I walk in with the inventory prints of all the cars I want for about 50 miles so I know exactly where they all are, have my own option list and prices. I don't even talk about price until I find a car I want that they can get/have.

    2. Get the price of the car locked down. I ask them for their offer. Then I hammer them with all the true price, kbb, edmunds, etc stuff. They bring up incentives, but I already have print outs of all the incentives available and they are not relevent because they will be granted no matter what the purchase prices. Usually at this point the question about a trade in comes to mind. Even if I want to trade, I usually say a buddy wants to by my old ride so it isn't an issue right now. Usually you are asked about financing (which would lead into a discussion of payments). This goes two ways, I am either financing through fordcredit which has a GREAT preapproval online that you can bring in or I'm bringing my own financing so it isn't an issue. Either way, I usually tell them "financing is not an issue for me." Even if financing was an issue, I tell them to focus on the price of the car and the math will take car of the payments. Once all of that is shot down, we continue to work on the price of the car. Once I get the price of the car worked out, we go to the next step.

    3. Talk trade in. My deal with "my buddy" falls through and I am no interested in a trade in on my old car. I have all of the kbb, truecar, and edmunds print outs on my trade in with me. If they try to go back to the price of the new car, I stop them. That is set, I'm happy with the price, no worries there, focus on the trade in. They have my sale, they just need to make the trade in what I want. It is pretty cut and dry, give me the price for the trade in or I walk.

    4. Financing, warranties, etc, and signing papers. At this time I break it to them I have financing or fordcredit preapproval which they have to accept. It should be real cut and dry. If they try to match the ford credit rate or something I tell them I want ford credit anyway. I have the preapproval, they shouldn't need to run another credit report, I don't need their loan, (these approaches have happened in the past because they will match the rate and then add a fee or point for themselves). Warranties I usually skip. the 11 Ex has the Ziegler one, great price. Often this is when I pull out the rebate forms that weren't incentives. That is, "buy a new ford and get new skis" or "buy a new ford and get a free maintenance plan." I don't mention a thing about them. Usually they just need to sign something I'm going to send in and if I mentioned it earlier, they would try to use it as a negotiating point.

    Not trying to lecture here. Just putting my "method" out there. Isolate and manage.
     
  20. hosedagain

    hosedagain Member

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    I tried that once, after talking price and I was happy with it I mentioned I changed my mind and wanted to trade in my current ride. The salesman was pissed off with me, accusing me of playing games blah blah blah, its OK to shaft the customer but turn the tables and cry cry cry foul.
     
  21. spitfisher

    spitfisher Active Member

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    If you have one nearby and you,re serious abut buying, buy your vehicle through Costco.
    Don't laugh. We've bought 3 vehicles thru them after looking around and with any haggle they were cheaper than any price we found on a Honda odyssey, ridgeline and a BMW.
    They were bought a different times. The most recent odyssey ex-l was listing at 36k, the best price we could find on it was for 31.5k with rebates etc. we bought through Costco from a local dealer for 28.7k, walked in, bought it left an hour or so later.
     

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