Driver side CV-Joint

[WishingBig]

So i had a thread recently about the sound of metal grinding. Replaced the brake calipers, brake pads, rotors and new wheel bearings on both driver and passenger side. Well the driver side cv-joint ended up exploding just down the road from my house. Put a new one in and i feel like its not locking in. I'll post the youtube video, feel free to mute the sound lol...

2007 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer v6

 

[Explorer_PL]

Do you have the c-clip on it ?

 

[imp]

Not locking in? How does a CV joint lock in? The AXLE shaft must lock into the differential side gear via a circlip.

 

[WishingBig]

It was on when I put it in, i will have to re-check. My worry is that the gears are stripped in there as before the last cv-joint exploded we had a whining noise coming from the front.

And sorry for not using the correct terminology but I figured someone would understand what I meant..

 

[CharlieK9]

I think you need to really slam it in (fast and hard by hand) to get it to lock into the clip.

 

[WishingBig]

C clip is on it and I got it in there where it was tight backed out of garage made about 10 feet POS came out again.

 

[imp]

C clip is on it and I got it in there where it was tight backed out of garage made about 10 feet POS came out again.

@WishingBig
Did you use a new circlip? If so, the differential gear it locks into may be damaged. To determine that requires disassembling the center section. imp

 

[07EddyB]

I find this discussion interesting. I always assumed that once you tightened the axle nut that the shaft would be held in place. There must be some interesting angles involved for it to be able to come out of the diff while its bolted to the hub.

 

[imp]

I find this discussion interesting. I always assumed that once you tightened the axle nut that the shaft would be held in place. There must be some interesting angles involved for it to be able to come out of the diff while its bolted to the hub.

@07EddyB

I find it easiest to picture the wheel, axle, and suspension parts moving up and down, while the body & frame to which they are attached are stationary. With the axle shaft inner end fixed in the differential, the other end must move up and down with the wheel. While that's happening, it's easy to see angles happening through both CVs other than being a straight line along the shaft. The CVs allow that angle change, while still providing torque to the wheel. What's more, one of the two CVs must also have provision to absorb the "apparent" change in axle length. On the fronts, I believe that's done by the inner CV, rear I'm not sure, but probably inner also. That constant "jerking" in and out acts on the inner axle end; without the circlip to contain it, it gets slipped out of the diff gear. imp

 

[07EddyB]

I see what you are saying but...
The axle end has a flange and when you torque the wheel side to the bearing then it is fixed into place - it will not move in or out at that point. As the effective length of the shaft increases then the diff side must be able to slide in and out. I would assume that the full travel of the suspension was taken into account with the length of the shaft so that at full travel you are not putting pressure on the clip in the diff. If you were, it would eventually be pulled out of the diff by the hub despite the clip.
I can only think of one way it could happen. If the diff is putting an outward pressure on the axle during torque. It may not be enough pressure normally to overcome the clip but if the clip is weak and the joints are at a large angle then I could see that happening. So in effect it doesn't pulled out of the diff - it gets pushed out under load when the joints are at larger than normal angles. I would imagine that you could drive down a straight smooth road without clips and not have a problem.

 

[kydirtscooter]

Whoa there, wait a second...

Yes, the outboard end is splined and fixed to the wheel end. The shaft also changes length as the suspension takes up full motion but via a plunge joint. The pluge joint is different compared to the constant velocity wheel end as it is typically trilobular and while it does have bearing surfaces, it does not use captured balls. Only one end (plunge jt) is capable of changing the length.

The circlip and male splined stub are fixed in relationship to the axle housing when talking joint expansion and contraction. If they were not the axle seal surface would be much longer, a circlip would be replaced with a positive stop, the seal would be much more robust and dynamic allowing axial displacement in addition to rotational motion, the side gear metallurgy would be different (not pmr), the side gears would need retention clip and bearig systems etc etc etc. Plus, if the inboard side changed length at the side gear, the splines would need to be made so the dynamic sliding friction stayed very low or it would bind wearing the splines, joint, and suspension. WAY easier to just use a plunge joint.

 

[kydirtscooter]

A few things in relation to your issue:

What are the boots made of?

What are the compressed and free lengths of the axle shaft?

What do the bearings surfaces look like on the stub and lobes on the pluge joint (requires disassembly of that end)

Does the joint pop out in reverse and in drive?

How does the length of the stub compare to oem? I have seen some aftermarket ones not fully seay due to hitting the cross pin

 

[07EddyB]

I was unaware until now that the axle itself could change length. Between some posts and some research I see what I was missing here. I thought all the play was in the diff.

 

[imp]

Whoa there, wait a second...

Yes, the outboard end is splined and fixed to the wheel end. The shaft also changes length as the suspension takes up full motion but via a plunge joint. The pluge joint is different compared to the constant velocity wheel end as it is typically trilobular and while it does have bearing surfaces, it does not use captured balls. Only one end (plunge jt) is capable of changing the length.

The circlip and male splined stub are fixed in relationship to the axle housing when talking joint expansion and contraction. If they were not the axle seal surface would be much longer, a circlip would be replaced with a positive stop, the seal would be much more robust and dynamic allowing axial displacement in addition to rotational motion, the side gear metallurgy would be different (not pmr), the side gears would need retention clip and bearig systems etc etc etc. Plus, if the inboard side changed length at the side gear, the splines would need to be made so the dynamic sliding friction stayed very low or it would bind wearing the splines, joint, and suspension. WAY easier to just use a plunge joint.

@kydirtscooter
Your post added very valuable, and technical, consideration to mine; been a long time since I saw "plunge joint" used, I had forgotten it, so described it with pictured speech.

For others to visualize, and for you to see, the "ball-type" CV joint is made in both non- and plunging-types:


Non-Plunging Fixed 930 CV Joint ...




Ultimate Plunging 930 CV Joint - 300M ...

Both of these are technically known as "Rzeppa" joints, named after the inventor from way back in Cord Car times. They are among the best joints, most expensive to make, though, but very long-lasting.

Below is a diagram of a plunge-type trilobular design. The "tulip", or pot container has 3 curved "tunnels" in it in which the rollers ride. Tulips are drawn from flat stock, fully formed, often having no machining done to them; cheap to make. The inside surfaces are case-hardened for wearability, booted to contain lubricant just like the Rzeppa type. Kinda hard to find those much anymore, I think. My '78 and '80 Fiestas had them, BIG ones, never touched one, both vehicles had 200K+.

The "tri-lobular" joint is made both plunging and non.

If it copies, here is a neat little show of a Rzeppa operating through a fairly tight angle.