Found Parts in oil pan...timing chain guide?

[Schaeff58]

Hello,
I dont own any Fords currently (but have owned several), but I am working on a 2001 Explorer Sport Track. It has 250k plus on the clock, and I am afraid with what I found in the oil pan it may be about out of time. This belongs to a friend of my wife"s and I am doing this as a favor.. (should have said no) to her. I have done a great deal of work to this truck. All new suspension parts, brakes all around, valve cover gaskets, and oil pan and tranny gaskets...

In doing the the oil pan, I found parts that look like they came from the timing chain guides. Some bakelite, and a metal angle bracket that looks like it part of the guide...

My question is does this sound the death knell for this vehicle or should I tell her to be for warned that the end is near.

It still has an unidentified coolant leak.... I dont think its a head gasket, so I will have it a day or two longer...
Thanks for any insight you can give, I am not sure she is interested in a motor at this point... I am leaning on just letting her run it and see what happens...

 

[shucker1]

Timing chain guide parts.

If the body is sound you could swing in a re-manufactured engine cheap.​

 

[410Fortune]

if the engine is still running well and doesnt have stumbling issues or constant upper end noise then it may just be the balance shaft tensioner.

Many of the SOHC problems can be fixed/addressed through the front timing cover, you already have the oil pan off............ If the upper guides are still good you COULD get away with removing the balance chain, replacing the main chain tensioner and installing new hydraulic tensioners on both heads for the upper guides. The main chain tensioner and balance shaft can be access through the timing cover. Those parts look alot like the balance chain and main chain tensioner bits but that is without doing some research........

 

[Schaeff58]

Timing chain guide parts.

If the body is sound you could swing in a re-manufactured engine cheap.​

Shucker, thx for the reply,
Body is good! I replaced the body mount bushing as well... no rust at all! The motor runs great! Who knows when the parts came off, could have been 100k ago. The pan gasket was original I think. Gasket was toasted and very brittle. It was leaking. I am going to tell her about it and just let it eat till it don't... then see what she wants to do.... What motors will go into this this truck do you know? Meaning what year sport trac etc... thx

 

[Schaeff58]

if the engine is still running well and doesnt have stumbling issues or constant upper end noise then it may just be the balance shaft tensioner.

Many of the SOHC problems can be fixed/addressed through the front timing cover, you already have the oil pan off............ If the upper guides are still good you COULD get away with removing the balance chain, replacing the main chain tensioner and installing new hydraulic tensioners on both heads for the upper guides. The main chain tensioner and balance shaft can be access through the timing cover. Those parts look alot like the balance chain and main chain tensioner bits but that is without doing some research........

Hello 410Fortune, thanks for the reply. The motor purrs... I am surprised at that... I did clean it up, found a connector on the intake that the wires were bad, fixed that... new plugs cleaned the throttle body etc... I already put the pan back on, did not realize I could do so much with the thing still in the truck.. I was pretty much done when I saw that the right hand side cam chain was in the back on the motor. Never saw that before... left had chain in front of motor... In my head I just said its probably that back one and Im not pulling this motor today, soo.... I put it all back together.... I drove it a while testing the brakes et al... only thing I noticed was that it really had no pic up, but could get to 60 ok and ran great the whole way through.

So whats up with the cam chain being one in front, one in the back.. does that mean that either head will fit either side? I guess I get that, just gotta make one head.... l

 

[CDW6212R]

The timing chains have multiple guides and tensioners, plastic lined parts that the chain rides against, basically great until the parts begin to let go. Those many parts can be changed with the engine in, aside from the rear parts of the right head. Most issues end up being at the front, somehow the rear parts let go much less often.

It's a big deal to remove the main or head chains, requiring special timing tools to set it back in time.

So the suggestion to carefully replace the stationary guides and tensioners is about all you can do without the special SOHC tools. Chances are with that mileage the whole set of parts for the timing chains will have to be replaced.

Kits or OEM priced parts can be $400 and more, the tool kit was $175 last year, less to buy used, so the full price to do all of it isn't bad, if you get to it before engine damage begins.

Here's a decent picture of the front of the engine with the timing cover removed;

 

[Schaeff58]

Thanks Don! That is good info and advice. Good pic too. I will surely consider this. I am not sure what she will want to do. Seems like a used motor may be a good choice too. I need to look into how to do this. My choice, if it were mine, would be to pull the motor, go over it, and either replace the chains all together, or put a new/different motor in it. I am really not sure what to do.... but I will tell her.

What exactly are the special tools.... why is this so hard to time? Because of the front back chain set up? Is this the set of special tools you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/OTC-6488-For...39CWXE8X8A5&psc=1&refRID=0R7SVQ2CK39CWXE8X8A5

Thanks again!

 

[shucker1]

Those are the right ones.

What exactly are the special tools.... why is this so hard to time? Because of the front back chain set up? Is this the set of special tools you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/OTC-6488-For...39CWXE8X8A5&psc=1&refRID=0R7SVQ2CK39CWXE8X8A5

They are hard to time because of the chain set up.

Take a lot of attention to detail to get it right.

Folks take short cuts and screw up thus bad stuff happens.

Keep us posted.

Chris

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto. There are no timing marks, or splines, on any of the several chain parts etc. The tools are required to locate and hold each head's cam separately, while the crank is held at TDC. Thus all of those special tools are required, to do each cam one at a time. Doing it any other way greatly increases the timing errors.

But the suggestion by 410 was to change the parts not part of the timing chain connections, the tensioners and guides. The main timing cassettes have plastic along their length, which are usually the plastic bits found in the pan and oil pickup screen. If you can see those, find them intact, then it's possible to do the suggested items, and have it survive a while longer with no issues.

 

[Schaeff58]

Those are the right ones.



They are hard to time because of the chain set up.

Take a lot of attention to detail to get it right.

Folks take short cuts and screw up thus bad stuff happens.

Keep us posted.

Chris

Thanks Chris,
I can see that it would be a challenge. I have not talked to her, the owner yet. I will keep ya posted.. It still runs great.... for now.

I have been thinking about this.... If I leave the motor in, take the front of it apart, and replace the things I can on it, and put it back together, if the issues are in the front where I can access... I cant see it costing any less than 800 to a grand.

And according to this thread 4.0L SOHC Engine Swap... 97/98/99/00/01/02/03 Motor Interchange there are several years that fit this truck, but there are caveats with each different year to make it work and it has to match the rear wheel drive that this one has for some reason. I have not researched this all the way, but I am thinking finding a 2001 (actually a 08/2000) may be a tough gig.... a donor truck with a good motor would be the best deal I think... the truck I have really is in good shape body wise...

thanks for all the help/input

 

[CDW6212R]

You can use almost any 4.0 SOHC to replace the long block of another, just swap all external parts that might differ by model. The intake is the main thing that changed along the years, most of the rest is the same.

 

[Schaeff58]

Ditto. There are no timing marks, or splines, on any of the several chain parts etc. The tools are required to locate and hold each head's cam separately, while the crank is held at TDC. Thus all of those special tools are required, to do each cam one at a time. Doing it any other way greatly increases the timing errors.

But the suggestion by 410 was to change the parts not part of the timing chain connections, the tensioners and guides. The main timing cassettes have plastic along their length, which are usually the plastic bits found in the pan and oil pickup screen. If you can see those, find them intact, then it's possible to do the suggested items, and have it survive a while longer with no issues.

Ok Don, I get that, but, and it has been said that its usually the front parts that fail, and if its not, and I find them all intact.... is it engine time? Not seeing any exact matches, and none are really any better mileage wise than what is in this truck (which is to be expected) . Chances of a different used engine with the same problem are pretty high I am thinking. So it may be better to stay with what is in this truck.... Again, have not told her yet, tried to call yesterday.... so how long to do this, just the front timing guides? A day or less? Ill research this...

Thanks

 

[Schaeff58]

You can use almost any 4.0 SOHC to replace the long block of another, just swap all external parts that might differ by model. The intake is the main thing that changed along the years, most of the rest is the same.

Don,
Did not see this post, sorry.
Thanks, that is good info too!

SO from the pic you shared, I centered it on what I think the metal part is I found in the oil pan (could not figure out how to enlarge it). So it does seem to be in the front of the motor. For this to have been chewed off, that chain must really be slapping around. So the plastic is from the guide part in front of that angle piece with the holes? Could be additional parts too I guess. So this looks more doable to me now, at least I think its the right point to attack it from. Can ya buy just the guides?

Thanks for helping me see this!

 

[Schaeff58]

I am looking for parts... not sure what exactly I need.... kit wise. I see that there are up graded parts. Should it be oem, aka FORD parts or what? Do I replace the chain? I dont need that special tool to do this job do I? Is this the right kit? Timing Chain Kit For 97-11 Ford Explorer Sport Ranger Mazda B4000 Mercury 4.0 601209308906 | eBay
Or just get this? https://www.amazon.com/MOCA-Timing-...-26&vehicleName=2001+Ford+Explorer+Sport+Trac
Sorry for all the questions and large links... thanks for any help you can give...

Greg

 

[CDW6212R]

You cannot remove any of the chains without retiming the parts, they are all connected and the heads will force the parts to a point of equilibrium(valve springs pushing on the valves). I haven't changed parts by leaving the chains in place, but those two jackshaft chain guides(and tensioner there) can be done by themselves.

The weak link parts to worry about which require the timing tools, are the cassette guides, the plastic components of the cam chain guides, the part the cams ride against. You can barely see that looking down at the right head at the back.

Buy OEM parts if at all possible. If you only need the few parts easier to replace, the cost difference will be very minor to buy Ford parts. The whole kit prices are $300-$450ish from aftermarket, and OEM you basically have to buy individual parts.

 

[Schaeff58]

Don, these are good pics! Did you take them? So you have done parts of this timing job?
IF I understand you I could get away with some of the parts being replaced w/o removing a timing chain and loosing the time of the cams. AND IF I am going to do this, I guess I need to open the motor up, see what parts I need and go from there. But if I am going to this expense in terms of time and money, should I just go ahead and replace what I can? I tried to PM you, but could not figure out how...

.... if I do all this would it be better to just swap a motor... starting to get back up to that grand plus mark again I think. Ugg... I was sure about what to do a bit ago... but now I am not so sure again... Its not my money and I dont what to hurt her $$ wise.

Thx

 

[Schaeff58]

Don.... I should have added: the one I think needs to be replaced is not one I can do by itself? The one to the left of the crank shaft gear?

 

[CDW6212R]

The one you think matches those parts can be done without any special tools. Those two parts on each side of the jackshaft chain can be replaced with minor trouble holding the chain aside while installing them. One will be easy, and the other will require holding the jackshaft chain inward with tension by hand etc, and lining up the bolts to start them. I haven't done that, but I gather it's not that bad to do.

My pictures were from 2006 when I did my 99 truck, with the body off. That's how I got so many good pictures, and I was swapping bodies to repair the rolled truck. In my signature below is a link to that build thread. I did all of the timing parts except for the rear cassette, and that center guide of the jackshaft.

If your truck has 4WD, the lower right has a balance shaft, and chain/tensioner. The chain can be removed without any ill effects if needed, just cut the chain etc.

 

[Schaeff58]

Don,

Looked at your 99/93 build thread, all I can say is WOW! And the lift in the driveway, well, thats just good stuff right there! I have a scissor lift and it does most of what I need. Im looking for a full size one for the near future.... but gotta get this truck done first!

Thanks for the comments and direction for the timing components. It is a 2wd model, so that means I dont have the balencer I think? Im thinking, I can replace the 'jack shaft' tensioner, left side of chaing, the part I am thinking is gone and chewed up, and the guide on the other side as well. Get a new gasket and be good to go. I may swap out the water pump while inthere, but not sure yet. Talked to the owner yesterday, pretty sure she is up for doing this, not sure she understood what the problem was, but I told her it was a ticking time bomb, and could blow at any time, she understood that.

Your build was really something! I did not read it all, but bits and pieces. Amazing really, very nice work.!

Thanks again Don.

 

[CDW6212R]

Glad to help, sometimes this is fun and others, not so much.

Replace the external tensioners for sure too, those are the weakest links due to the simple spring inside(becomes weak over several years). The rear tensioner is super easy to replace, but for both be careful to insure the crush washer stays centered as it's bolted down. Buy those tensioners from Ford, I got them from eBay or Amazon, both have them.
Here's the front one; https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O0OUDE/?coliid=I2E8QAZL6ECFD7&colid=32X1ZA2MRI77P&psc=0
and the rear one; https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O0SLZ2/?coliid=I2TMX2RQXED5MV&colid=32X1ZA2MRI77P&psc=0