1. Tip...
    If you hold most smartphones sideways
    you can bring up a more full featured version of the forum.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice



Register Today It's free! This box will disappear once registered!

Found Parts in oil pan...timing chain guide?

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by Schaeff58, June 7, 2019.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Yes sometimes its fun, then there is today.... got started late for reasons due to paper work to renew my teaching certificate with Maryland... I retired last June From teaching High School Mathematics but took a part time job at a local catholic school teaching Middle school Math. Have been waiting for transcripts for classes I took to send to the state and they came yesterday, so I spent time getting all that ready.... 8 week back log the lady at the sate department of education said... well as long as I am good for the fall, thats all I need... and I sent it certified mail, so I can say I sent them something this day! LOL

    So I forgot that ford needs the magic tools for the fan blade and then to pull the harmonic balancer... have the puller but not the right size bolts..... do you know what size bolt and thread they are? I am going to look it up... I am correct in thinking you have to use a puller correct? On the toyotas and subarus you dont... got the bolt out ok, but no love on the pulley...

    On the two tensioners... they are up near the intake correct? I think I remember seeing them... I did not even think about replacing those... but it is a good idea.... thanks for the links... and I dont think I need to pull the valve covers do I? I just did those gaskets and dont what to do all that again... Looks like the rear main oil seal may leak, and maybe the seals around the crank... that will get replaced when I do the timing cover I am thinking...

    One thing about this motor it leaks oil like a sieve.... better now than it was after the pan and valve covers done....

    Also the fan is cracked to shit.. gonna replace that before it tears up the radiator!

    ... wanted to have some pics of the timing chain et al, but did not get that far .

    Thanks again
    tomorrow I hope!

    Greg
     
  2. Support EF

    Join the Elite Explorers for $20

    Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.


  3. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Yes sometimes its fun, then there is today.... got started late for reasons due to paper work to renew my teaching certificate with Maryland... I retired last June From teaching High School Mathematics but took a part time job at a local catholic school teaching Middle school Math. Have been waiting for transcripts for classes I took to send to the state and they came yesterday, so I spent time getting all that ready.... 8 week back log the lady at the sate department of education said... well as long as I am good for the fall, thats all I need... and I sent it certified mail, so I can say I sent them something this day! LOL

    So I forgot that ford needs the magic tools for the fan blade and then to pull the harmonic balancer... have the puller but not the right size bolts..... do you know what size bolt and thread they are? I am going to look it up... I am correct in thinking you have to use a puller correct? On the toyotas and subarus you dont... got the bolt out ok, but no love on the pulley...

    On the two tensioners... they are up near the intake correct? I think I remember seeing them... I did not even think about replacing those... but it is a good idea.... thanks for the links... and I dont think I need to pull the valve covers do I? I just did those gaskets and dont what to do all that again... Looks like the rear main oil seal may leak, and maybe the seals around the crank... that will get replaced when I do the timing cover I am thinking...

    One thing about this motor it leaks oil like a sieve.... better now than it was after the pan and valve covers done....

    Also the fan is cracked to shit.. gonna replace that before it tears up the radiator!

    ... wanted to have some pics of the timing chain et al, but did not get that far .

    Thanks again
    tomorrow I hope!

    Greg
     
  4. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Found this thread about the bolts for the 4.0 harmonic balancer pulley They are 8mm with 1.25 thread, and 90 mm long... that should work.. gotta check length with my puller first, but its close...

    Harmonic Balancer Bolt removal thread?
     
  5. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    June 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,171
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    143
    City, State:
    Knoxville, TN
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Limited AWD
    The metric bolts for pulling the balancers are not in most older balancer puller kits. But I think most of the newer ones have them. The one I borrowed last time had them in it, so you just have to plan ahead to be sure to have those.

    The rear/right tensioner is simple, after removing the right inner fender(plastic).

    The front/left one is tricky, getting the socket or wrench onto it without moving the sensor on the thermostat housing, is tough. Do not disturb the two sensors on that housing, the threads will leak permanently if the sensors are moved. Work at getting a tool on the tensioner well, or else the whole thermostat housing must come off. Don't try to save time by loosening the sensor, it will leak after it's all done, and you'll have to spend more money to replace the thermostat housing and sensors, with a new design version.

    The front crank seal is easy to replace when you have the timing cover off.

    Projectthread011.JPG
     
  6. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Don, Thanks for that tip! That is a good one and I probably would have tried pulling the sensors off the thermostat housing. I want to get a look at that thermostat ck it for leaks etc
    My puller 'kit' is a hodgepodge of cobbled sizes and I know what none of them are, just that I dont have the right ones for this pulley... but the local True Value will, I hope!

    Gonna get to this right off the bat this am... nice cool morning here, and super low humidity, That is rare here in southern MD.

    Man thats a cool pic. easy to get to things in that situation!

    Hope to get some pics today of what the issues are. Ordered the parts I think Ill need last night, including the two tensioners you linked.

    Thanks!
    Greg
     
    Last edited: June 12, 2019
  7. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Well like they always say, "aint nothing easy" including finding the needed bolts.. but eventually I did. Really struggled to get the damn fan clutch off, but did, next the harmonic balancer pulley, it was not gonna come off willingly but it did... So the water pump, power steering/ac compressor, alternator etc... man something was leaking up front, nasty mess... Got the timing chain cover off. Glad I drained the oil as a bunch of antifreeze tried to go down the front... I had rags in place.... ready to get it... ended up using a shop vac to suck out the extra from the block.. Ill flush out the pan with something and let it drip, before I put oil back in... So what I found... Drum roll please.... it was what I/we thought... the passenger side of the chain, I guess tensioner was gone... found the rest of the parts in in the upper pan that I could see from the front... got a bunch of smaller pieces out too... and some shavings with my magnetic pickup.. I pulled what was left of the bracket and set it next to the other parts, pic below.

    So I know I am getting a new timing chain cover gasket, water pump and gasket, but I am baffled as to how to reseal the bottom of the timing cover to what I guess is the upper oil pan or maybe its called the case stiffener. I am thinking to clean it all well of course then for the bottom part I am going to use some permatex ultra black as I have used this on countless oil pans when there were no gaskets. Some are factory like this... any reason I should not? Should I try and get some on the bottom of the gasket or just the top where it meets the case? Waiting on parts now, and it may be a week or better before I get back to this as I am headed out of town next week I think... So any thought or suggestions would be appreciated.

    And I was looking at the front drivers side tensioner, is it even possible to get it out with out taking that thermostat housing off? That looks like a whole different can of worms...

    Greg

    IMG_6574.JPG

    IMG_6575.JPG

    IMG_6576.JPG

    IMG_6580.JPG
     
  8. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    June 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,171
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    143
    City, State:
    Knoxville, TN
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Limited AWD
    Good progress, now you have a great idea of what the talk is all about here.

    You might as well R&R the lower oil pan, to get access to the upper pan/girdle to be sure there's no other pieces loose, and check/clean the oil pump pickup screen.

    That front tensioner is tight to get to, I'm sure many cannot be removed without pulling off some other parts around it. Watch the EGR pipe too, keep it assembled(the pipe into the intake thing(I forgot)) if possible. Unbolt it from the down running pipe, and work with it.

    Ultra Black RTV is my favorite also, it's the best for sealing most engine parts. Amazon has Ultra Copper this month for a great price(under $4) with the subscription system. I need another of that myself, and that's better than the black too.

    Get the cover and pan, and gasket really clean, final wipe with brake cleaner, and then carefully spread the RTV between all of those surfaces of the gasket along the pan etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet

    Thanks Don! Yes I get the picture in a big way now. SO it looks like I need to take the lower oil pan off to get to all the upper oil pan/case stiffner bolts... Seems to be some inside too? I have not removed those yet but am here to ck out what has to come off... those last two allen or torx bolts are a very unkind addition to this pan removal process.... not even sure what size they are... I think 4 mm... but that seems loose to me... more to come... also found a nest behind the thermostat housing and the knock sensor where was chewed in two different places... pics to follow
     
  10. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Ok learning a lot, more than I wanted to actually... I am not sure what I am going to do.... I may just put it all back together and slather on the ultra black in the front of the motor where the timing chain cover meets the upper oil pan, called the 'ladder' or 'girdle' I am fining. I found this thread that Don, you say you dont have to pull the motor to reinstall the ladder..Upper oil pan removal I am thinking that if I have the tranny in place and bolt it ip to that first, then tighten up the rest of the bolts, I am good? Are things properly aligned? I mean it would be as aligned as it was before I took it apart right? I am thinking the only reason I am taking that girdle down it to replace the gasket, as I know it leaks now... I DO NOT WANT TO PULL THIS MOTOR!!! I can clean the screen on the oil up as I have the lower oil pan off currently, again... gonna get a new gasket for that... or can I use the old one? I dont usually do that, its only 20 bucks, so I may just use a new one..

    Started this reply a while ago... I put my big boy pants on and just did it... Found a way to get those stupid #30 torx screws out and then the rest inside the lower oil pan... got the ladder/girdle down and its soaking in my simple green parts tank....

    Pics of the mouse next, mess he/she made and the knock sensor chewed up.

    I bought a new lower pan gasket and plan to use that, I doubt that the old one would be any good after being torqued down. its cheap insurance to put in a new one... and on the upper one I am thinking that a little ultra black on the change from flat to round in the front and back is what is called for?

    Thanks!

    Greg

    IMG_6590.jpg

    IMG_6591.jpg

    IMG_6586.jpg
     
  11. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    June 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,171
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    143
    City, State:
    Knoxville, TN
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Limited AWD
    Get your shop vac out and suck most of that debris out. If needed, you can tape a smaller hose like a piece of heater hose to it, to get into smaller spaces.

    I R&R'd my upper intake/girdle when I did my 99 in 2006, I installed a new oil pump and re-timed the balance shaft. I know the book calls for a special procedure to install that girdle. I installed all of the bolts loosely, snugged them all up, and tightened them evenly. RTV is required in all of the corner areas and seams of the timing cover and pan etc.

    If those wires are intact, you can still save them with careful insulating, heat shrink tubing and electrical tape I think.
     
  12. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet

    Hey Don, yea I cleaned all that out with my shop vac. The knock sensor wires were intact, but bare, stripped to copper in three places, at the sensor, about 3 inches in the middle and at the connector, I ordered a new one. The good thing was I could tell it was not leaking anything under the intake, glad of that. It did have a coolant leak, looked like one of the radiator screw clamps was about to break and that it was leaking on the bottom of the hose. I am replacing the thermostat housing, and hoses and clamps so that I hope will solve that. Looked like the o-ring on the thermostat housing was toast, could have been leaking down the front there as well. That front case was so caked with filth I cold not see anything. So as a result I could not pinpoint exactly where it was coming from. Do not think it was a head gasket leak. Changed the plugs and they were all ok, meaning that they were not steamed cleaned... They were worn and needed to be changed, but looked normal.

    Oil pump? I will research that... gotta stop some place though lol... never intended to get this deep into this vehicle.

    Not much to do to it today.. May prep gasket surfaces and clean up the pans....

    Greg

    IMG_6488.JPG

    IMG_6489.JPG
     
  13. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    June 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,171
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    143
    City, State:
    Knoxville, TN
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Limited AWD
    I'd say leave the oil pump, unless you knew something got through the pick up screen. I did mine because I figured I'd use the truck for another 150k miles. I put 75k on it before the trans broke, and haven't fixed that yet.
     
  14. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Your combo truck broke? Damn... I hope you can fix it.. I took the pick up off the oil pump and cleaned it all up.. there was a small piece of guide stuck on the correct side of the screen that was stopped from going through so I tend to agree I am just going to leave it and call it good... As soon as I get my parts Ill put it all back together. Im gone for the next week to 10 days So the truck and I will get a break! LOL.... Ill keep ya posted on my progress... thanks so much for the help, it did help me a great deal... This forum in particular has a lot of great folks so thanks to everyone as well. I got the replacement tensioner that blew up. Its not OEM but it is way beefier than the stock one. I put it on but did not pull the pin yet... waiting on the other side guide first. its tight just sitting there so I know it will be way better. Glad I went this extra mile for these folks.... Im not charging them much, they are teachers too... So paying it forward a little like all the folks here do with their input for folks like me that are not afraid to do the work, but just have not done some of this work if that makes sense.

    So will you rebuild the trans yourself? That's one thing I am really not good at. I have tried to fix a few, but sadly I was not successful.... lots and lots of parts in those things... I have a friend he is the best trans guy I know, but does not do much anymore. He was old school built them for speed etc...

    Thanks again...

    Greg
     
  15. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    June 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,171
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    143
    City, State:
    Knoxville, TN
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    98 Limited AWD
    Have a good break Greg, other than cleaning the old/dirty parts, putting it back together will go smoothly I'm sure.

    I've rebuilt many AOD's and a few 4R70W's, but never the 5-speed automatic, this 5R55E. They are a little trickier from what I've read on here, mostly installing the pump, and the torque converter. I don't know yet if the piston seals are the same size as in AOD's, which all require a seal installer tool. I have those for the other transmissions, and they cost a bunch more now($200ish), so I hope I don;t have to buy new tools for a one time job. I plan to build a 306 later and convert my 99 into a V8/AWD truck. The 4R70W is a much much stronger trans, plus there are several upgrade parts.
     
  16. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Well good luck with that project. My failures were not necessarily due to not doing the job correctly, but probably not fixing the correct problem. But I had to try! I know more about Subarus and Chevy's than I do Fords. but I a learning. Just redid my wifes camry motor, and it is running like a top now!

    I am impressed with your knowledge and expertise. I am glad you are willing to share. The transmission world is like a different universe to me, but I would love to go there and learn it. But just like you said, it is expensive to tool up and the pars are probably harder to find and way more expensive.

    I was thinking and hoping going back together would be better than the tear down. I can get to the front tensioner now as the thermostat housing is out. I am planning on finishing the clean up of the cradle/ladder/girdle or what ever it is called today. I love simple green for that. I have thought about a parts washer tank, but I have a tub that I make a heavy concentration of simple green and water and even though it maybe a little slower than a good parts tank, it sure does a good job. I will post pics..

    Happy Fathers day to all tomorrow!

    Greg
     
  17. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Simple green does a great job for my clean up of parts. I have put whole heads in this stuff, pistons etc... very good! Before and after pics of the timing chain cover. Only after pics of the ladder/girdle/cradle. Will be much nicer to work with now. Ill re-clean the gasket surfaces just prior to installation after I get all the parts and am back in town.


    Happy Fathers day to all.

    Greg

    IMG_6583.JPG

    IMG_6609.jpg

    IMG_6581.JPG

    IMG_6610.jpg

    IMG_6611.jpg

    IMG_6612.jpg
     
    Last edited: June 16, 2019 at 7:36 AM
    • Like Like x 2
  18. donalds

    donalds Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    July 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    296
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stem
    City, State:
    Nc
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    1999 ford explorer sohc
    Nice
     
  19. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    Thanks sir! Another good thing is that is does not smell all that bad! LOL
     
  20. donalds

    donalds Elite Explorer

    Joined:
    July 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    296
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stem
    City, State:
    Nc
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    1999 ford explorer sohc
    Did you get a new front seal
    I went to orileys and got a timing cover gasket set had a water pump gasket
    A timing cover gasket and a new front main seal
    All for like $20 if you buy the seal alone it's just about the same Price
     
  21. Schaeff58

    Schaeff58 New Member

    Joined:
    June 7, 2019
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    City, State:
    md
    Year, Model & Trim Level:
    none yet
    I did, I got a felpro set from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CSES08/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    I usually go to Advance for almost all my parts... you can save a ton of $$ on line. Can always find a 25% off coupon sometimes as much as 40%. I shop around, Amazon is great if you can wait, they are almost always cheaper. Rock Auto is good, but shipping puts it up to about Amazon prices... BUT The Rock Auto parts finder is the best! You can find, say a seal on there and search the part number on Amazon and get it there... Or from Rock auto if it all adds up cheaper....
    Sorry that was probably more than ya asked for LOL... but thanks for the help!

    Im pretty sure that seal, along with about every other place it can leak, leaks. I am or will have fixed just about all of them, with the exception of the rear main and the oil filter holder gasket. I may do the filter holder gasket, but not pulling the engine at this time for the rear main seal. (But the way this has gone... who knows! LOL) This was way more than I signed up for. She brought me the truck for front end suspension work and brakes. But i have learned a great deal about these trucks. Its still in good shape, so I think worth the money.

    Greg
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page







We Support Our Troops!