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Fuel efficiency...

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by GreatDcott3141, February 27, 2018.

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    1. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      No, no, these manifolds are the worst things ever made. I'd have shot the engineer/designer if I had a say when they first made them.

      Explorer 302 manifolds.jpg
       
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    3. German Engineer

      German Engineer Active Member

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      They might be, but I guess they're probably really not.
      Exhaust manifolds are not only designed with maximum power and fuel efficiency in mind but - and this is actually extremely important to meet the norms on pollution - to deliver the exhaust to the catalytic converter(s) in the way such that it can reduce the vehicles pollution as effectively as possible.
       
    4. MetricMuscle

      MetricMuscle Member

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      What diameter will the primaries from the head be? Log diameter? Will the log be a tapered cone shape?

      Ok, maybe not those particular exhaust manifolds. Ya do gotta wonder what folks were thinkin' sometimes.

      What about the cast exhaust manifolds found on the later models? I know they didn't have the structural failures the earlier ones did but do they flow better than they look?
       
      Last edited: August 2, 2018
    5. MetricMuscle

      MetricMuscle Member

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      I think the priority would be meeting emissions then cost. Not sure if power or fuel efficiency was much if any concern since an aftermarket design can so easily improve on exhaust manifold/header flow efficiency. So many other areas have been optimized by OEM's over the years, they leave less and less on the table anymore, especially compared to the miserable stuff the late 70's and early 80's. I haven't seen an OE intake system lately which wasn't already pulling cold air from a high pressure area. Most cat back systems only change the sound of the vehicle, they don't improve the exhaust flow except at WOT redline rpm range, if that.
       
    6. MetricMuscle

      MetricMuscle Member

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      So lets look at just the engine and what mods increase fuel efficiency at highway cruise speeds of say 70mph. These are just my thoughts.

      I used to think that a tall top gear was the key to best mpg but it is actually Throttle Position. One way to monitor this is intake manifold pressure/vacuum. The smaller the throttle opening is, the higher the manifold vacuum will be. If an engine has enough power to turn a taller gear then rpm will be lower but more importantly, small throttle opening. If the engine doesn't have enough power for a taller gear then mpg will suffer because it will take more throttle to pull it. This is especially obvious with small 4-cylinder engines, they have to be in the right rpm range to pull the gear with small throttle opening.

      For an engine to make power at low rpms and small throttle opening, it's got to have compression. Compression helps everywhere but has to be managed properly. Combustion chamber design is probably the most critical and the GT40P heads are designed with this in mind by locating the spark plug more centrally and smallish chamber volume for better faster burn . They also flow very well for their intended power range.

      Cam specs, like Lobe Separation Angle, can help manage higher compression. Timing can too but it has a different priority, peak cylinder pressure.

      So imagine you are on a reality show and your team has to modify a 2001 Explorer 5.0/302 engine for best mpg at 70mph. How would you go about it? The rest of the truck has to be left alone, even the low hanging fruit like roof rack, etc. Just mods from the airbox to the tailpipe tip, Intake, Engine, Exhaust, including a proper tune if necessary.
       
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    7. MetricMuscle

      MetricMuscle Member

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      Who is your cam designer?
      Are you referring to the KB Step Dish design? I like what he has written on how/why these were designed the way they are.
       
    8. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      FTI, Ed Curtis is my choice right now for a cam. He's very good and well known on the big Ford forums. The cam tech lines are manned by people who's job it is to sell callers one of their cams. They use computer software that selects a cam of theirs which should be close to what a buyer wants.

      Real cam guys use the actual valve springs available to optimize what can be done with a given vehicle, and the obvious details like heads, intake etc. As an example, EC can make a cam for an engine to work at higher rpm's than the parts may be thought to be best for, as requested by the buyer, or a lower rpm band, or with existing valve springs etc.

      The best results come from very good parts selection, plus the cam designer, which usually also includes valve springs not installed in new heads available commonly from Summit etc. More can be had from the best parts for a given combination, and the right cam guys know what those are in most cases. They can be invaluable for helping to select parts, though that's not their primary function. On the Corral forum it is common to see Ed's suggestions for heads or intakes etc, in threads discussing parts combinations.

      I haven't asked Ed about any parts choices, except for valve springs for heads I was about to buy. I also asked him once about compression ratio for general street use etc, and that's where I got the idea that I can use 87 octane for work with a compression higher than 9.0 for a 306 SBF.

      The heads I have to build a 306 now I got are a ported knock off set of GT40X's. I was wanting a used set of TFS 170's, but those are rare in solid trusted unmolested form. If those can be had for $1000 or less already prepped, that's the best choice for a mild level SBF. But given the $250+ cost of the best valve springs(kit) that a custom cam needs, and the common rebuild cost of used heads, I didn't find any. In the end the TFS 170's used would end up costing very close to their new price, say $1250 or more.

      So I settled on these FloTek 180's, being ported by a well known head guy, I expect any defects from being knock offs are corrected. I have the proper springs Ed suggested, and I'll ask him for a specific compression ratio(and quench) to use when I'm ready to buy pistons.

      The GT40 heads(all of them) are not high flowing heads, but they are very competitive in normal street rpm's for efficiency. So a TFS 170 head will outrun all GT40 heads above say 3500rpm, but below that it's not a big enough difference to worry about. GT40(and P) heads on Explorers flow under 200cfm typically, and max ported may get 225cfm. The best GT40 FMS heads might get close to 245cfm ported, but all aftermarket heads worth having, start above that.
       
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    9. MetricMuscle

      MetricMuscle Member

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      I'd like to find a way to get a proper 0.040" squish by just replacing head gaskets but we'd need one with installed thickness of 0.020" and the only way I've seen this done is with solid copper and an o-ring. Not sure this is doable without machining heads and block prior.

      What kinda power are you after? What rpm range?
       
    10. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      The stock cam is really intended for the stock 9:1 compression, who knows how changing just the head gasket would work. I think you can get them from Comotec in the .025" range, but yes they are probably virtually a solid metal, and high too.

      I'm aiming for a 5500rpm shift, stock 4500lbs weight plus few hundred pound load. My 99 4WD has 4.10 gears and I think that will be very good for my work use. I'd like it to shift at around 3500rpm normally, with my typical half throttle effort. I'm not easy on the gas in anything I drive.

      My 98 302 4R70W is stock but the shifts are rather high for a given throttle. It's shifting easily above 3500rpm as I drive it, kind of letting off to make it shift when I think it should(not let it push to 4000 or more until it wants to). So my 98 being stock isn't the perfect example of how I want it to shift. Some adjustments to the software may be in order, after replacing the solenoids, accumulator springs, J'Mod attempt, and Sonnax upgrades.

      In a Mustang I'd expect 300rwhp and more with the 306 I have in mind. But our automatic and transfer case cost an easy 40hp versus a Mustang/manual. So I'm after say 250-275rwhp. I don't expect to gain fuel mileage with it, I've lived with V8's my whole life and don't have allusions about seeing 25 or 30mpg. I'd be satisfied if it could do close to 20mpg at a steady 60-70mph.

      My route takes five hours to drive 83 miles, I might be getting 10mpg, due to about 30 miles of commuting distance. So a gain or loss of 1mpg can mean a lot to me over a year etc.
       
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    11. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 ______Salty_______ Elite Explorer

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      So put an e cam in the stock engine with tfs 1 springs and there you go.. no aluminum heads, no port work, no 1k valvetrain and no name dropping needed.

      The money you saved could be spent taking your rig to an exhaust shop..
       
    12. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 ______Salty_______ Elite Explorer

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      Warm Air Intake off the exhaust manifold maybe?

      I wonder how much energy (fuel) is lost every time the lockup engages and disengages in OD. I'm often tip-toeing the throttle at 65 and every time I let off the gas, the lockup disengages, when I reapply the gas, it "plops" back into lock up. Everytime, everyday, for years and miles on end.

      I figure to get the best mpg highway you need to be the slowest one on the highway. That way you can keep cruise engaged and never have to touch the brakes and be under that 50-60mph window where drag coefficient becomes more of a factor..

      You basically have to be like:



      "The..low..ri..der.. don't use no gas now."
      "The..low..ri..der.. don't drive too fast."
       
      Last edited: November 12, 2018
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    13. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Ditto that where I am daily in a three lane parkway with a 35mph limit. It's a tourism mecca of left turn lanes, theaters, restaurants, and shops everywhere. I have to go just about four miles in that both ways.

      It's not bad in the morning where traffic can average 45mph most of the time. In the afternoon 35-40 is about average, but you hit about half of the lights red. I try to run near what the best average can be, so half of the cars pass me, and I go by about half. Everyone is trying different lanes all of the time, it's hard to be patient and slowly work my way to the right lane where I turn.
       
    14. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 ______Salty_______ Elite Explorer

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      How often do you play with the OD OFF button Don? Do you usually have od off on your route?
       
    15. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Yes, I shut off OD at least 30 times a day. I shut the engine off I'd guess 40+ times during my route, we have to take the key out every time we leave the vehicle. So for every parcel that won't fit in the mailbox, we have to get out to take it some where else. I have one big NDCBU set that usually takes 10 parcels or more, so one stop get rid of 10% or more of my load. I used to have a route with a large complex that they all went to the office, and that was 15-25 packages.

      I'll find time to hunt a relay that has a delay in it, and wire that into the OD switch circuit. Then it'll be off until I want to select 4th gear.
       
    16. Mr. Alligator

      Mr. Alligator Elite Explorer

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      Your truck has hard service! Impressive.
       

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