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Going twin turbo. 4.0 ohv

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by GeLu_ThEiSt, March 15, 2008.

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    1. Kyle0614

      Kyle0614 Active Member

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    3. Xan

      Xan B

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      Do You understand
      1 thats a cobra, not a mustang... Cobras came with alot of extra goodies over a mustang such as a stock 4.6L DOHC Supercharged engine, upgraded trans, diffy, and 39lb injectors......
      2. That was not just a stock engine with twin turbos they noted headers a custom intake, fuel rails and bigger injectors, twin blade throttlebody, also come on 110 octane gas i bet you run that every day at $6.62 a gallon

      As for the second link, they are quoting power from the flywheel not from the rear wheels. I'm looking at a dyno sheet of a stock mustang GT makeing 223 HP 257 ft-lbs at the wheels on the mustangs forum. so 300 hp stock is kinda a little off
       
    4. Kyle0614

      Kyle0614 Active Member

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      duh i have a ford ...i know the difference
       
    5. Kyle0614

      Kyle0614 Active Member

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      BTW it's Ford Mustang Cobra just for future reference so technically it is a mustang
       
    6. gspfunk

      gspfunk Member

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      X2. Plus Teksid blocks holds a lot more power than a stock 2V or N/A 4V block will hold. Forged internals, etc., add to the Terminator's potential from the factory.

      The boost output of a S/C is limited to the revolutions of the pulley in relation to the motor. You can do a pulley swap to increase boost, but you are still limited the same way.

      The newer technology in the centrifugal S/C's puts them w/ in reach of what a turbo can do, but any S/C is still causing some degree of parasitic loss.

      The boost from a turbo can be changed w/o necessarily having to change any physical components. Going w/ twins instead of a single turbo will usually increase the lifespan of the turbos as they are sharing the work.

      That being said, I think turbo is the cooler way to go and has more potential once you've done the install, but that's just my $.02.
       
    7. Jakee

      Jakee Well-Known Member

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      Superchargers, turbo's..they all have there place.

      I've been sold on a turbo a long time ago. I did a lot of research and know the pluses and minuses of both set-ups. A turbo is the way to go if you ask me. Yes, a supercharger can produce a lot of power, but I’ve seen A BUNCH of people running centrificals switching to a turbo, and there is a reason for this..

      But, to each their own.
       
    8. Xan

      Xan B

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      Actualy
      A Mustang is a V6 car that all the rental car places have
      A Mustang GT is the V8 car
      A Mustang Cobra is the V8 supercharged car (this is a SVT car)
      Excuse me for leaving out the LX, the Shellby seris and the roush

      So when someone is talking about a mustang i think about v6 car when someone mustang gt i think of the V8 car and when somone says mustang cobra i think of the supercharged V8 car. So when somone says
      "twin turbo 4.6 mustangs put out 800+ horsepower to the wheel try and get that with just a supercharger and a little port work not going to happen...unless you spray it too..."
      I'm probaily gonna assume you're talking about the GT not the 4.6 supercharged DOHC motor because it was rare as hell cause mustang cobras were like $40k new
      Obviously SVT cars have alot more upgrades than just some bolt ons, they are completely built for speed in just about all aspects.
      Its like saying oh that F-150 out there can run 11s and not saying it was a ford lightning. Or hell i could say i'll race you in my VW golf and bring a Golf GTI W12 (thats right a golf with a twin turbo w12 0-60 in 3.5 sec.). How bout you be more desriptive when posting and that would help save people from confusion. thats what i'm trying to get at. i've said it like 5 times now.
       
    9. Xan

      Xan B

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      I'm not trying to bring down turbos in any way, infact i love tubros. All i'm saying is superchargers make big power too :D.
       
    10. gspfunk

      gspfunk Member

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      I didn't take it at that, just giving my input;)

      Something I left out: You can also change boost on a Centrifugal S/C by changing out the impeller. Just thought I'd CMA (cover my a$$).
       
    11. Makahveli

      Makahveli Elite Explorer

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      yes superchargers are easier to install and adjust boost, thats all I meant!!! Making a custom exhaust pipe is expensive which rums me away from the install. Best of all if you need to rebuild your supercharger just take the belt off, remove the few bolt that hold the charger in place reinstall the stock belt and there you have NO down time when the charger is getting rebuilt! With a turbo you kinda screwed. Atleast thats how it is for my Paxton unit (no oil lines and such)
       
    12. rocket 5979

      rocket 5979 Resident Gearhead

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      Actually a properly built turbo 4.6 Mustang (even with 2V heads) will put down 750-800+rwhp. Heck, a 4.6 with 4v heads will put down 900+ no problem with some cars topping the 1000+ mark. Though they aren't numerous they are out there. Regardless this other guy was referring to the power adder's ability to produce power, not whether the vehicle it happens to be on needs to be built.


      Actually there is quite a big difference when looking at horsepower per pound of boost made from a supercharger and a turbo. I sure as heck would not label the difference as "not all that much".

      Xan I am not exactly agreeing with what this other guy said as I honestly did not read all of his posts. The few posts that I did read I observed you make mention of him needing to get his facts straight. It seems that you need to take a dose of your own medicine here too.


      There were actually 5 other model years of the 4.6 DOHC Mustang Cobra that were not supercharged. The Terminators were not the only 4v 4.6 V8 Cobra's ever produced though they have been the most popular.

      Actually when speaking from a "built for speed in just about all aspects" there is not a huge difference between the NA Cobra's and the GT's. Different engine block is slightly lighter, 4V heads were nice, crappy transmission that breaks while even running a minute amount of boost, and of course IRS vs solid rear which is a debate all in itself. The Lightnings are even closer to the regular F-150's then what the 96-01 Cobra's are to the GT's. The Lightnings have the same heads and same bottom end as the regular F-150's do with just a roots supercharger slapped on top. Though there were obvious improvements between the GT's and the NA Cobra's and the F-150's and the L's it still is nowhere near as night and day as you make it seem. It is not like one version came with a fully forged engine backed by a powerglide while running a big return fuel system with 83 lb injectors and a built 9" 4 linked rear and the other came with nothing.

      I am just curious but is it this guy's fault that you choose to only pay attention to 2 of the total 7 model years of 4.6 Cobra's produced? Why should he have to mention exactly what trim of car when giving a comparison statement between the merits of a supercharger and the merits of a turbocharged vehicle.
       
      Last edited: March 28, 2008
    13. rocket 5979

      rocket 5979 Resident Gearhead

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      The Teksid's are stronger than the WAP casting aluminum blocks but they are not quite as strong as the cast iron blocks. The Terminators have the cast iron block not the Teksid aluminum block.


      Ummm all NA 4v Cobra engines had the Teksid cast block. From 1996-2001. Now there was a 4V 4.6 that did come with the WAP aluminum cast block and those were the 03-04 Mach 1's.

      Just a few items you might want to know.
       
    14. turbo cat

      turbo cat Active Member

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      boost pressure isnt produced by how many turbos you have 2 turbos making 3 psi each to equally 6 psi dosent work. The twins will be easiest Ying the outlets from the compressor housings into the manifold. You will need to have a vaccum line from the cold side to the wastegate(s) whatever the springs equipt will be the deterimining factor. Such as if the springs are setup at 6psi once the cold side(pressurize part of the intake) sees 6psi the line to the wastegates will see 6psi to allow the wastegates to start bleeding off the excess exhaust pressure. Considering the room in an xplorer compartment id go single but twins is do-able.

      And the teskid 281ci block is just as strong as the iron block they can handle more than 1000hp from factory its the pistons and rods that cant take the abuse from factory(well the boosted 03-04 cobras are setup with strong internals)
       
    15. rocket 5979

      rocket 5979 Resident Gearhead

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      The Teksid's are very strong but they are not quite as strong as the iron blocks. That is probably why the Terminators came with cast iron blocks rather than the Teksid alum blocks. Extra durability.
       
    16. turbo cat

      turbo cat Active Member

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      the earlier teskid block 93-98 is said to be stronger than the latter 99+ alminum block. John M owner of accufab has pushed a factory teskid block to more than 1700+ hp with his TT cougar bodied car
       
    17. jah81592

      jah81592 Well-Known Member

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      Note:
      03-04 Cobras have forged bottom ends from the factory. So do the Shelby's. Unortunately a stock Mustang GT bottom end may make 800 to the wheels (stock) but only once for about 4 seconds then it will grenade. Gotta love hyper-u-cracktic pistons and powdered rods in the stock 4.6L bottom ends. BTW-Superchargers can make huge power but turbos will make huger power. LOL.!!!!:D
       
    18. Turdle

      Turdle I bake stuff Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    19. jah81592

      jah81592 Well-Known Member

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      Mach 1 internal are not forged and still fall into the standard 4.6L issue. Interestingly they have strong blocks and incredible heads. If you forge the bottom end the sky is the limit.-j
       
    20. rocket 5979

      rocket 5979 Resident Gearhead

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      You are correct in saying that the Teksid aluminum blocks are stronger than the newer WAP aluminum blocks. The Teksids came in allot of 99 Cobra's and even some 01's too, though not a common item on the 01's.
       
    21. rocket 5979

      rocket 5979 Resident Gearhead

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      The weak link with the Mach's are the pistons and connecting rods. The Mach's that were auto's had a non-forged crank whereas the Mach's that came with the manual transmission have a forged steel crank. Consider the Mach 1 stock bottom end about as strong as the 01 Cobra bottom end.

      BTW just for clarification there seems to be two conversations going on as once here. One talking about just the engine blocks themselves and now one talking about the stock shortblocks. What i was referring to before when talking to turbo cat was just the block construction itself.
       
    22. Doubt Incarnate

      Doubt Incarnate Active Member

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      so whatever happened to the guy who started this? I see a lot of talk/argue about everyhing else but a twin turbo explorer...

      For 6psi i'd think a single turbo would be a better setup. half the exhaust leaks and other problem areas. for engine managment there has been a lot of talk on other forums about Megasquirt, its a DIY ecm but you need to know how to solder to put it together. supposed to be real easy to tune.
       
    23. Tobbe

      Tobbe New Member

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      Have a look at the old turbotechnics conversions..... They are 2.9 12v cologne based, but they could be a good information source, they perform very well. They got an impressive torque curve....

      And there is also ONE 2.9 24v version, 530bhp@ 1 bar.....

      //Tobbe
       
      Last edited: April 20, 2008
    24. turbo cat

      turbo cat Active Member

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      my single kit is already underway for my 91. Im keeping the cost very low this week ill be going out to the yards to find a cheap turbo hopefully a 60 trim T3 or a holset. I have tons of pipes of sizes and lenghts and bends, oil hoses for the feed and return, fittings, thick blanks to cut a flange out of and so on. i already have the whole setup mapped out in my head and this is not the first turbo kit ive built. For the sport im going a cheap route.

      Flipped driver side manifold, the p side maniolf will stay in the oem position routing a pipe under the trans bell housing back up to Y with the outlet of the driver side outlet where the flange will be located.
      [​IMG]

      Then temporarily i built a downpipe to still cruise around in the truck until i get into it ( i dont like having unworkable just veichles sitting around)

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      In all the plan is a low no more than 5 psi with a small exhaust housing for a fast response draw thru setup with a recurculating bypass and a quiet exhaust as quiet as i can get it.
       
    25. 19Explorer93

      19Explorer93 New Member

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      see if you can find a 87 300zx or luck out and find a turbo tbird lol. both have 60 trim compresors. the 300zx has the .63a/r exhaust housing tho. also the 300zx will allow you a 3 inch downpipe straight from the turbo with nothing more then a new flange
       
    26. brutalford

      brutalford New Member

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      twin turbo 4.0

      Hey guys decided to join to get some ideas and possibly give some.
      I'm Posting this message to clarify some ideas for twin vs single turbo on a 4.0 or aqny other engine. The 4.0 im working on now is soon going to be twin turbo but here are some ideas to help if you choose this path. the best way to twin a ranger, explorer, mazda.. is remote installation due to under hood clearance im currently building a single turbo kit for wifes explorer, and it seems to be going well. here is a list of things i added to build hp and tq.
      4.6 injectors
      4.6 tb with spacer
      2 new heads ported lightly and polished
      cold air intake
      on my setup the mass air system at first didnt really change (idle, accel) but driving it aprox 59 miles changed parameters cause it will fly now the ecm i drove to a guy i know who tuned the ecm to new parts and took 110 cap off away and enhanced air/fuel ratio and tuned the ignition with my new MSD ignition that made the system work better and it runs much better. the explorer on dyno b4 mods 219hp 239tq after est on flywheel 269hp and 277ft lbs with awd it is est cause i dont have anyway of testing 4wd dyno so had to remove front driveshaft i layed out 218hp and 231ft lbs after mods i expecting single turbo added with 7lbs of boost with a good tune should put it 270ish on hp and over 300ft lbs adding an intercooler and new fuel pump should make my explorer run extremely differant. i have a video camera waiting on del of a new charger and i will post on youtube my mods and turbo installation..
       

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