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How To: Install Electric Fan WITHOUT going aftermarket (Let the PCM do the cooling!)

Discussion in 'Modified 1991-1994 Explorers' started by NICE59FORDF100, December 17, 2012.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. Cobraguy

    Cobraguy Well-Known Member

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    by the way...if I had to do this again, I would look hard at a Mercedes CLK 320-350 fan from around 2004 to 2006. (no earlier than 2004) The dimensions are large enough you should be able to trim it to fit well, and it is extremely narrow. And I haven't seen any published numbers, but I'm here to tell you that thing moves some very serious amounts of air. I'll bet it's more than the Mark VIII. It's astounding. The issue will be controlling it. It has an integrated controller that would have to be bypassed...but I'm thinking it could be done. If you get the chance to check one out...don't pass it up.
     
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  3. pkn

    pkn Active Member

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    I would never use Hayden's... again. On my other car I had the cheapest Autozone fan controller which worked just fine for 5+ years, but I was stupid enough to replace it with Hayden while doing some rewiring under the hood. For cosmetics?.. Because the old one was... umm... old? I don't know what I was thinking... read reviews on Amazon, Hayden's fan controllers are obvious junk.

    In my case, Hayden started acting up after two month, and another month later I just am using "manual override" switch (luckily I had it built in from the start) without even looking at what Hayden is trying to tell me with signaling bulb connected to it...

    And now I'm looking for fan controller for that Nissan and also planning switchinig to electric fan for the 92' Ex...

    Hell YES!.. Smooth fan start and airflow control by PWM feature... smart handling of "AC on while speed is above 45 mph"... use of OEM module... general elegance of the idea... I waaaaant iiiiit!!! (cries like a baby) :banghead: :notworthy
     
  4. pkn

    pkn Active Member

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    Could you please share the schematics with us? I'm especially interested in this "fail-safe" feature, the only thing I was able to do in this matter was to add "manual override" switch to turn the fan on unconditionally...
     
  5. Maniak

    Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I've been using a Hayden on the van for more than a year now without issues. I use it to trigger a 100 amp relay which is what see's the fan load. There is no way I would expect the hayden to handle the inrush current on a mark VIII fan. Also, I'm using the adjustable temp kind with the bulb you can put in the radiator fins.. Its been working great for me but I have seen reports of some people have issues with it.. So far, me and the people I helped install it are having no issues.


    You could use one of those 700r4 lockup boxes that bases it off of speed. Set it for 45 mph and when it sends the signal out you can use that to trip a relay to open the fan circuit (controlled by the a/c). It isn't cheap though.. I think it was $150+ for that controller which is why I never got it to help control my 700r4. I just put in a manual switch so I can control the converter if I want to.

    For a/c fan control on my friends f-150 we put in a manual switch. He turns off the fan when the a/c is on, while on the freeway, but if the truck gets hot (he forgets to flip the switch back) it will still turn on the fan. This works well for long trips on the freeway..

    ~Mark
     
  6. sloop

    sloop Active Member

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    just some rambling thoughts from a computer nerd and wannabe mechanic - probably best to skip this

    not sure why people want to swap out for an electric fan - but i know there is a valid reason - i would NEVER have doubts about allowing a computer to control the fan - decades ago i rebuilt a mustang carb and i don't see the simplicity in them

    these cars seem to have a lan (local area network) much like an office would have - their computers talk on a lan segment - its how they communicate with other computers - the physical medium is twisted pair wiring? that surprises me - (twisted pair wiring is what telephones use (or used))

    evidently the language changed around the time obd switched to obd2 - if your new device speaks that same language, it should be able to join the party - now it might not understand ALL the words in the language so hopefully the programming of the device has a 'screwit i don't understand that word so ima just toss it and go on my merry way' capability - languages evolve and new words are added but i doubt it would throw the device into a hissy fit if it could not understand a word - the language here is the protocol - scp or can

    quickie on lan segments - 2 examples - ibm's 'token ring' protocol for its lan segments was ordered - if you wanted to 'speak' on the lan segment (network), you had to wait for the talking stick - or token - that is - permission to speak - only ONE device talked at any time

    xerox went a different way with its ethernet lan segment - it was planned chaos - you wanna 'speak', go for it - throw it out there with everyone else and if two of us collide, oh well - stuff happens - though the chaos offends my sense of order - IT WORKS

    i suspect the car's lan segment is much like ethernet - sensors jabbering away about the minutia of their little function - tossing it out on the lan segment for anyone and everyone to hear - in effect, broadcasting - boring little o2 sensors so self absorbed that they constantly talk on the network about their little function - i DO NOT think the o2 sensor addresses its data to the pcm or its fellow o2 sensors or a velocity modulator thingy or a maf sensor - anyone on the network is welcome to listen to what the o2 sensor is quacking about or ignore it

    that is why i do NOT think the pcm has to know about any added devices - such as a velocity pulsewidth modulating whatever or a margarita machine - the pcm MIGHT talk on the lan segment but i suspect it mostly listens for data from maf and o2 sensors so it can process that data

    i also suspect that the pcm does VERY LITTLE talking on the lan - nor would the velocity modulationerator thing - the output from their calculations of the sensor data seems to flow through opening and closing relays and such - adding a fan controller would be just one more device listening on the car's lan

    there was something posted about how the velocity pulseworks modulaterator is 'tuned' - the parameters like '135 degrees or higher = turn on the margarita machine, velocity low' are probably hardcoded into the device's program - but a mark or explorer, the parameter is probably 'close enough'

    it sounds like the velocity thing device controlled more than the fan - the fuel pump maybe - and obviously the margarita machine (if its post obd1) - so the inputs for controlling the fuel pump are PROBABLY not necessary - the trick is to find all the data inputs needed for fan control and try to supply them

    in computer and telecommunications networks, we have scopes or sniffers that capture all the data on a line or lan segment - it would be fun to see what is on the car's lan segment - well - at least for a nerd - though i suspect its very repetitive - its not like you would see a discussion of membrane theory of physics or anything - might be a few tips on making a great margarita though

    sensors speaking the same language as input to your device (vcplmthing)
    all the sensor data needed by the velocity thermopulsewidth variable fan module
    output to devices from the same donor mark
    correct power supply to the vplcmthingy device

    i don't see the flaws in your plan - good luck wid dit
     
  7. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    name change?

    I noticed that in the wiring diagram posted by just1me the module is called the variable control relay module (VCRM) while in the wiring diagram posted by NICE59FORDF100 the module is called the variable load control module (VLCM). Are both diagrams really for a 94-96 Lincoln MK VIII? Is Ford the source for both diagrams. It seems unusual that Ford would call them two different names. Also, it appears there are a few minor differences in the pin connections. As I pointed out in my post #53 the 1997 Ford Strategy comments indicate that the PCM commands the actions of the fan controller for the "electro-drive fan". Does anyone know if the Lincoln MK VIII is considered to have the electro-drive fan?

    sloop, your comments are interesting and probably valid for LANs but back in the late 1990s and early 2000s the Explorer sensors, indicators and controls were almost entirely analog. The PCM contains analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog converters and solid state logic/switching to read or control most devices. A few devices such as the EGR vacuum regulator are controlled by varying the on/off duty cycle. Exceptions were the PATS module and the EATC module that communicated with the PCM via the SCP (OBD) bus. In the latter 2000s a microprocessor was incorporated into the instrument cluster and it communicated with the PCM via the SCP bus.
     
  8. just1me

    just1me Active Member

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    From what I read online the early Mark VIII used the Variable Control Relay Module, where as the later Mark VIII used the Variable Load Control Module. I searched through various sights to confirm this, the first 2 wiring diagrams I posted where from a 95 Mark VIII and the 3rd connector view was from a 94, but it's the same as the 95.

    Looking again what I found is the VCRM is used from 93-95, while the VLCM is used from 96-98.
     
    Last edited: October 7, 2013
  9. just1me

    just1me Active Member

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    This is what I found for the 96 VLCM.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: October 8, 2013
  10. explorinitup

    explorinitup Active Member

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    i used the same set up just a 80 amp. that might have been part of my problem.
     
  11. pkn

    pkn Active Member

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    The 100 amps relay might be the reason... Mine (now dead) Hayden controlled the fan (fans, actually, it's dual) directly via it's own relay, it's Hayden Automotive 3647 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C3BB6M

    Or it may be that the fans are different. Im' talknig here about the setup on my other car, 85 Nissan 300ZX, it's not the Mark VIII fan, it's dual fan from some japanese car from the 90-th, can't remember the model, I picked it up at local Pull-a-part junkyard, choosing mostly by dimensions and being dual.

    On the other hand, the abovementioned then-15-bucks controller from Autozone managed same fans just fine for many years without any additional relays... I don't know what to think. And still, too many people complain about Hayden controllers failing in the reviews.

    Hmm... I am actually more interested in "smooth fan start and control via PWM" than in automatic fan-off on highway... and my '92 Explorer has A4LD not 700R4... but this is an interesting idea. If I could only find more readily available "we-are-on-highway" signal ... there should be some signal, since the converter on this truck does lock up automatically... and make sure the signal is powerful enough to activate some relay...
     
  12. pkn

    pkn Active Member

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    In my case, the reason is simple. In my '92 Explorer I have 4-month old brand new (absolutely all components, including compressor, are brand new) AC system. On the highway, and even locally at normal speed everything is dandy. However, with ambient 95+ and in stop-n-go traffic (which in my area happens much more often than I would wish) air temperature at the AC vent easily climbs to 75. Which is too high for me, considering sun load and me being a smoker and need to keep at least small opening at drivers window.

    Diagnosis is clear: not enough airflow at idle. Possible fixes: super-duty fan clutch, or electric fan. Super-duty fan clutch might be not so effective at idle, so I chose electric fan.
     
  13. Maniak

    Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I think I have the answer to this part...

    The ECM grounds a solenoid for 3/4 and for TCC (both solenoids share a common 12v but have individual ground signals). So, "in theory" you could use the grounding signal from the ECM (probably use the tcc signal) to kick a micro relay which could block the signal (use it in NC configuration) to the coil side of the Fan relay.

    ~Mark
     
  14. explorinitup

    explorinitup Active Member

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  15. 2000StreetRod

    2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Dakota Digital fan controller

    The description doesn't mention a "fan on when A/C compressor on" function but the photo shows a connection for "A/C". Using the OBD port for engine coolant temperature (ECT) ties up the port which I use for datalogging. In my opinion using the ECT is not desirable. I want the ECT to stay constant as controlled by the thermostat. I prefer the fan to be on when the coolant in the radiator exceeds a user specified temperature. The "sender" connection can probably be connected to a radiator installed temperature probe. Activating/deactivating the fan based on vehicle speed should be unnecessary if radiator temperature is monitored. A two speed or dual fan capability is an advantage but I prefer continuously variable fan speed instead of relay activation that results in a large spike in current draw when the relay closes. To me the Dakota Digital fan controller appears to be only a "smart" high current switch. I prefer a "smart" pulse width modulated fan speed controller.
     
  16. NICE59FORDF100

    NICE59FORDF100 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Updates! Since we are busting ass on JPX to get the 5.0 swap done, we will be going with electric fan so I will be putting all my eggs in one basket and seeing if this will work - so in the coming weeks I will have more info!
     
  17. Randall

    Randall Demon4x4 Member

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    Do you already have a fan? I might could sell you mine, that happens to be sitting in your garage... lol
     
  18. NICE59FORDF100

    NICE59FORDF100 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    We do already possess a MK VIII fan, and if you want yours back, just let us know :)
     
  19. Benjam

    Benjam Active Member

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    So..it has been a month. Any updates?:thumbsup:

    Very very interested in this

    Benjam :D
     
  20. explorinitup

    explorinitup Active Member

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    i went threw a bunch of wiring and found this is not possible on a 2nd gen. the pcm is missing one of the 2 signals. it just does not exist. well at least for my pcm.
     
  21. Exploring XLT

    Exploring XLT Elite Explorer

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    I just read this entire thread, got to the end to realise it was never updated. :(
     
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