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Hydro Assist Fuel Cell. Increase gas mileage 50%?

Discussion in 'Hybrids, Electric, Hydrogen, Bio-diesel, E-85' started by mp88, March 17, 2008.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. FIND

    FIND Well-Known Member

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    It very clearly violates the laws of thermodynamics.... You are using power from the engine to break water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen, then getting power back through combustion, which is basically a chemical reaction that combines hydrogen and oxygen where you collect some of the energy released by that chemical reaction which is the same energy you inputted earlier to break it apart. To get a net gain in energy, you would have to be operating at greater than 100% efficiency, which is impossible. Now consider that gas internal combustion engines operate around 30% thermal efficiency. Unless you are collecting energy from some type of thermonuclear reaction involving that hydrogen and oxygen, you are never going to be able to get more energy out of it than you inputted. The entropy of a closed system cannot increase beyond its inputs. This is first year physics and chemistry stuff...

    Take a moment and ask what is the chemical composition of petroleum based gasoline. Next, ask what the thermal efficiency of using gasoline or hydrogen in an internal combustion engine. Please note at this point that Hydrogen combustion is far less energetic by volume than gasoline, then ask the chemist in yourself how this will increase the thermal efficiency of an internal combustion engine.

    The ONLY reasons anyone EVER experiences a gain from HHO are:

    1: The ultra lean burn state that they force their engine into, which could be done just as easily running a higher octane fuel, water injection or many other methods that would give back higher returns than HHO generators. The time this is most beneficial is at cruising speeds, where engine power can be significantly reduced without having an impact on the vehicles ability to cruise down the road. This is why things like Warm Air Intakes or variable displacement works so well....

    2: The change in their driving habits that they subconsciously adopt when they are trying out this miracle fuel saving technology. EVERYONE does it, regardless of whether they think they do or not.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
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  3. jakegator

    jakegator Active Member

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    Hows it going I realize this is late but whatever. It does not violate any laws. First off you add water, second you add gas. It would violate all kinds of laws if it ran solely off of water which turned the engine and produced electricity from the alternator to produce more HHO. It does not do this (well idk about the one that this thread started with but the technology in general). You can think of the gas as being the part that produces power for the HHO (which you must add). The magnet things are crap. Its kinda like adding nitrous... sorta. I made a small engine work on this stuff as a supplement in high school to prove a concept. Stainless does work well however it is expensive, I used graphite electrodes from old lantern batteries at about 2.3 volts and 1 amp. The reason some people who have tried this say it does work is most likely because they did not re-program the computer. If you add it with out telling to computer to resitric gas it will still add as much gas as it wants becasue it is not designed to detect HHO. Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. FIND

    FIND Well-Known Member

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    You aren't burning water... You need to split the water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. This requires electricity for electrolysis. The electricity comes from burning gasoline. This means your alternator has to generate more electricity, which means more drag on your engine. Therefore, you burn more gas to generate the hydrogen and oxygen gas. Then you add the "HHO" to the engine to burn it as a replacement for the fuel. The total amount of energy you can get from burning the HHO will not exceed the energy you put into it to split the molecules. Combustion is just an exothermic reaction that joins the hydrogen and oxygen molecules. It takes just as much energy to split those molecules back apart. Since you are not able to use all of the energy from combustion, that means that part of the energy used to generate HHO is coming from burning gasoline.

    That is what we mean when we say you'd have to violate the laws of thermodynamics. You would have to get more energy out of the system than you put into the system for the system to increase the efficiency of your engine. The water is not carrying any energy that is accessible to you through the combustion process in an internal combustion engine. The bonds in the water require energy to break.

    Your only option to run your car on water or add water to make your car more efficient is to buy a Mr. Fusion. It's 2015, they should be out any day now.

    If these HHO generators worked, you can bet your bottom dollar that the auto manufacturers would super excited that they could spend a few extra bucks making these so they could meet fuel efficiency standards instead of the amount of money they spend on direct injection, turbochargers, engine design, transmissions with half a dozen forward gears, computer controls for dozens of sensors to optimize how the engine runs. We could all be driving down the road in big early 70s V8s with three speed transmissions instead of buying cars that auto manufacturers have invested billions of dollars into making them get incremental increases in power and efficiency.
     

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