Is draining radiator enough to prevent freeze?

[zensius]

My 92 is being stored remotely in the high desert of California. About 8 hours away. It gets below freezing on a regular basis in the winter there. Here's my problem. It currently only has water in the cooling system. I'm afraid of freezing wrecking the engine. How much water would be left in the system if I had a guy open the petcock on the radiator? Would it be enough to do any damage? There's no chance of getting coolant into the vehicle. Thoughts?

 

[Iron Weasel]

Well, in theory, there would still be quite a bit of water left in the engine itself that could possibly crack the block if the water actually froze. That is the exact reason why freeze plugs are installed on engine blocks. Ice typically expands its volume by about 10% when it freezes. Again, in theory, when the water freezes and expands, the freeze plugs would be pushed out due to the expansion which would prevent the block from cracking. One night most likely wouldn't be enough to pop the freeze plugs or crack the block, but if you're expecting a prolonged period of time below freezing, then you run a high risk of engine damage.

If you're really that concerned about it, figure out a way to replace the water with antifreeze or make sure that the engine is kept above 32°.

 

[explorerguy89]

well technically freeze plugs aren't going to save it as they aren't even designed for that purpose just called that as a common thing as ice expands in all directions the place in your engine that aren't right the the plugs will still crack. (e.g. if you drain all water out of plastic but leave something like a trap full of water still although it has openings on top and bottom it can still crack because ice forms from top to bottom and will push out) my advice is pony up the dough and buy 2 gallons of anti freeze and fill it up.

 

[zensius]

It's not a matter of cost. It's more about the 16 hours of driving.

Even if I did manage to get a gallon of anti-freeze in the system will it mix properly without starting the car?

 

[Iron Weasel]

It's not a matter of cost. It's more about the 16 hours of driving.

Is 16 hours of your time worth more than replacing an engine?

Even if I did manage to get a gallon of anti-freeze in the system will it mix properly without starting the car?

Probably not. You'd have to start it up, let it get to operating temperature so the thermostat opens and the water pump circulates everything. Or, you could remove the thermostat and run it for a few minutes. Either way, you'd want to run it for a few minutes.

It's not a guarantee that the water will freeze and crack the block, but if the historical conditions of the area you're storing the vehicle at show long periods of temperature below 32°, then you're increasing the likelihood of it happening. If someone has access to the vehicle, maybe you could persuade them to get a space heater and place it under the engine when the temperature is expected to go below freezing.

 

[reapereviltwin]

Just adding antifreeze without running the engine won't mix the water and antifreeze, the motor must come up to operating temp and the thermostadt must open to do it properly.
Freeze plugs are designed to be the weak point in case of freezing, I have seen them pushed out due to a long freeze.
If you decide to go with draining the system, disconnect the lower radiator hose and let all water run out, then reconnect it, start the engine and let it run for a few minutes, and disconnect the lower hose again,more water will come out, then leave it disconnected as well as leave the drain **** open. Draining the coolant to prevent freezing was used by the German Army on the Eastern Front in Russia durning WW2 with great success where the temps dropped to -30 or more. This was done on a nightly basis and not for long periods tho.
The best route is to go ahead and get the proper amount of antifreeze into your cooling system.

EDIT: Iron Weasel was quicker than me on the response.

 

[explorerguy89]

yea as they said you gotta add antifreeze and crank it over.

 

[Willard]

I would take off the lower radiator hose and let it all run out. If you can start it for a very brief time with the hose off and it should help work more out of there. Probably wouldn't hurt to take off the thermostat housing and do the same.

You could also leave both the lower hose and the thermostat housing off over the winter to help give room for the water to expand as it freezes. It would also let air in there to help evaporate some more.

 

[IZwack]

What if you drain the radiator, and then vacuum out as much of the left-over fluid through one of the freeze plug holes?

 

[damnford]

the "freeze plugs" are not for freeze ing they are where the sand was poured out during casting that is the only reason. there is drain plugs on both sides of the block as well.

 

[Centaurious]

"Freeze Plugs" are where the inner core that contained all the water passages was connected to the outer core or shell. After all the casting material has been removed the rough block has holes where the inner core was supported. During machining a smooth opening to a standard size is created and a cheap sheet metal plug inserted. If expensive threaded plugs like those capping off oil passages were used we would never have called them 'Freeze Plugs Some people have had their block freeze and the water inside pushed out these cheap plugs but they were lucky and the freeze did no damage and they mistakenly credited the plugs for saving the block. If "Freeze Plugs" were that, no one would ever crack a block in winter.

I remember seeing a film in school that showed men hammering and chipping all the sand off of cast engine blocks and after the outside was clean of all sand a man used an ultrasound machine and when he touched the block with the wand all the casting sand inside shattered and started pouring out.

Casting plugs or sheet metal plugs is a better name.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I used to work in a foundry and have set my fair share of cores, air hammered out the sand, and even ladled the 1450 degree aluminum. Super fun.

Oh, and this was a 9 year old bump. Hope he got that coolant in there.....