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Lost any respect for Ford I may have had....

Discussion in 'Auto Industry News' started by Rick, November 19, 2001.

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  1. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    Well Chrysler has done it again. They are introducing yet another enthusiast based vehicle which no matter what you think of the styling is a breakthrough vehicle.

    Here are the photos:

    [​IMG]

    Chrysler intoduced this car at the '01 International Auto Show. They said their enthusiasts practically demanded that Chrysler produce this car.

    In 6 MONTHS Chrysler solved all technical problems, feasability issues and funded the project. Remember... It takes Ford FIVE YEARS to go from concept to reality.

    What do we get from Ford the FX4... BIG DEAL! I know a lot of you guys like the FX4, but I find it hard to get excited about a truck that a few years ago would have been considered the stripped down model.

    As I had previously stated my '93 Explorer came from the factory with a manually shifted transfer case, manual hubs, and manual tranny. That was considered stripped. We consider it offroad worthy.

    As most of you know Ford has been with us on three of our "Serious Explorations" Runs. The first Colorado Run, Truckhaven 2000, and Moab 2000. Their plan was to build a Jeep beater. And there was talk of bringing back the Bronco name for this project.

    Instead of following through with this project Ford dropped the ball and all of the Ford Engineers who were working on the program were relocated to other operations within the company.

    Now Ford has been parading their new EX concept vehicle. Do you really think that they will produce anything that would resemble that beautiful concept car. I don't think there is even a slight chance. I believe it was just an excercise for their design team.

    Come on FORD get with the program! Build something for your enthusiasts! A good start would be the FX4 Explorer Sport. It may not be new, it may not have lots of high tech features, but at least it would show you care about your enthusiasts.
     
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  3. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    Awe come on doesn't any one want to debate this? Am I on target... or way off base?
     
  4. toad

    toad Elite Explorer

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    I think you are bang on Rick , Ive always been a ford man but thats cause I can fix/modify things myself . They have always made decent cars but left it up to the consumer to add the good stuff .
     
  5. RU MAN

    RU MAN Active Member

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    I look at it like this. Ford is a business, and when you run a business you stick to what works. THey don't build cars that are way out there. But they still have a good profit margin.

    Don't get me wrong, i would love to see Ford produce something that is trail ready out the box, but do you really think that would be a smart choice on their part? The truck/suv whatever would most likely be WAY over priced for the norm off-road lover. And if they did built a truck with all the goods, someone would still complain about flex, axles, transfer case etc...

    I'm still surprised they made the new thunderbird.....
     
  6. RON COX

    RON COX Active Member

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    I think you spot on Rick. Unfortunately Ford is not going to produce something that results in 3 to 5% of what the market wants. Economics, as you know, are a large factor with anything in production. If Dodge revisits the power wagon I just may cross over, Gasp!!
     
  7. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    I don't want to buy a new vehicle to leave it stock and neither do most enthusiasts. What we want is an excellent platform upon which to base our modifications.

    Today we consider the Early Broncos, Scouts, etc. as ideal factory vehicles. How many of these vehicles do you see in stock trim? Sure there are some, but most have been modified by their owners.

    As far as expensive... you can keep the leather seats, carpeting, automatic climate control systems, steering wheel mounted radio controls, heads up displays and such and leave them for the luxury vehicles.

    Even GM, America's #1 auto maker has built the H2, the "baby" Hummer. Obviously the bean counters at GM see the market as viable. Do you think that the H2s will stay stock very long? Do you think they'll be cheap? GM already owns the Hummer line and did well in that VERY expensive niche market. Now they want to keep the image, but make it more affordable. Sounds like a good plan to me, I bet they do well with it as long as our fuel prices stay low.

    What has Ford built lately??:banghead:
     
  8. RU MAN

    RU MAN Active Member

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    I agree with you about giving us a good base, with none of the extra stuff.

    I'll write more of me thoughts tomorrow, it's 1:00 here and i need to go to class tomorrow.:banghead:
     
  9. rpenner54

    rpenner54 Moderator Emeritus Moderator Emeritus

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    I have been saying this for years! Remeber when the CUSTOM option was out there for trucks? Thats what my first truck had! Which meant I had NOTHING! No head liner no carpet, the only option it came with was a rear bumper! I really have no desire for any vehicle I buy to have all that crap if I buy it new. If I buy used thats a totaly seperate story. :)

    Ford built the Focus remember? :D That is their niche right now. That an the Escape off of that. That was WAY out there for Ford to even consider doing! They took a huge risk in their eyes there. They took what everyone was already making and made their own! LOL That is Fords strategy! Why do you think they have left the 4.0 in the Explorer for so long with minimul upgrades done to it. SOCH etc... Ford is so afraid to step out on a limb to try something new on the public its freaky! Chrysler has been doing it for years, GM even try's new ideas! Remember when the older (Now older) S10 came out? With that funky ass Green and Purple paint and that really weird rear bumper? Hell they did it without to much of a problem right? Ford needs to wake up and smell the coffee! Their current line up sucks! I am a Ford man to boot but as soon as they get their head out of their ass and realize there is a huge market out there for just utility alone I don't think I will buy anything new from them!

    Heck look at Expiditions... New $30k, used with some miles and wear and tear $15k!!! Some with only a year apart! Does that say anything at all??? Ford is charging WAY to much for a vehicle that should be worth say $20k!

    Whoever makes these ideas drop at Ford needs to pull their head out of their ass and realize that people will buy! It will not be in the same numbers as their higher selling vehicles but they will buy!
     
  10. GenLee01

    GenLee01 Active Member

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    Why would you want Ford to build a piece of junk like that Chrysler car? They sell 5 of the top 10 for a reason. They don't build crap! Chrysler hasn't come out with a good car since 69 with the Charger. That was there highlight. Everything else has been crap. Ford has been smart. They are building what people want to buy.

    The only people you should blame is the aftermarket people. There aren't nearly the options for Ford as there is for GM. That is cause Ford builds good stuff to begin with.

    Yes there should be much more. Ford should offer an eX FX4 that would nice. But there isn't a big enough market. What they should do, and I have talked with a Ford rep (I use to be a Ford Salesman) and he agreed. They should offer stuff like the FX4 but if you want it, you should be able to order it like that. This way if the demand isn't there they didn't waste any money and it gives us a chance to buy it the way we want it. But that won't happen.

    I don't want see Ford trying to build crap like that Chrysler car EVER!
     
  11. rockymntnhi

    rockymntnhi Active Member

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    I totally agree with you Rick . FORD needs to pull that big finger outta that ass and get with it . What a bunch of Pu$$y$ , they need to start competeing for my bussiness or I'm gonna give it to someone else who is . All the other manfactures are taking risks , being original , pleasing their customers and what does Ford give us ?? The same ol' Taurus , Focus , The New X , so what ! Change it around a little , Stock 18"+ whls SuperCharge it +++++ . I'm buying somthin' new next year and it's not lookin' good for ford . I'll still have the X , but when I replace it ???? I hope Ford still visits this site , and reads this !:frustrate :fire:
     
  12. rpenner54

    rpenner54 Moderator Emeritus Moderator Emeritus

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    I see your not a big fan of change an inovation huh? I see your also not a fan of things that look cool? Being a salesmen you know a lot about selling things right? Right... You also don't like it when there is a new product introduced because you have to learn how to market it right? Right... So even though Ford could get a market of 200k vehicles a year out of some specialty vehicle you wouldn't want them to do that right? Right...

    Now we see why Ford does not want to sell something new... Salesguys who don't want to learn how to market something trendy or differn't. They won't make the money on it so they refuse so Ford gets shoved back into its ideas again.
     
  13. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    Oh... really no aftermarket support for the Mustang, Focus, Expedition, Excursion, F150, SD P/Us... Hmmmm..... I guess since there is such an abundance of aftermarket parts for those Ford vehicles they really just must be sh*t to begin with.

    Wow, what an idea... Give people the ability to order a vehicle with the options they want... Oh yeah... That's against Fords long standing policy.... You can have any color as long as it's black. Thing is though things have changed since Ford started building mass produced vehicles.

    Who let William Ford in here anyway?
     
  14. BExplorer

    BExplorer Active Member

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    Shit...

    I tink Ford answer too much to the loud speaking people. Activist and soccer mom dont need Ex, they need Subaru. Ford trashed our truck to profite, why didnt they make a 4wd station wagon instead? I am for strait forward transportation, too much gadget is only going to break. If only they would offer basic trim in every car/truck and then offer the other "packadge" I would maybe buy another. But till then I keep my 94 Ex, because it as (alomost) nothing more then needed (except air conditionning, but I bought it used so... if even A/C breaks, it's going OUT). There was a time years ago when almost everything was an option, and now you dont have the choice of the options. Can't they make it to a middle compromise!!!!:fire:
     
  15. GenLee01

    GenLee01 Active Member

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    Well as far as a car looking cool, that Chrlyser isn't it. Now a Corvette is more like it. Classic mussle cars have it. That Chrysler isn't that exciting. Inovation is good I am not saying it isn't. I would rather see them do something better with what they have. What ever happened to the Ranger and Explorer. You use to be able to plow with them. What happend? I haven't been a salesman since the Focus came out. When I talked with the Ford rep, that is something else I told him. Ford use to make rugged stuff, Built Ford Tuff. Now it isn't that way. I would rather see them rebuild that image than some stupid concept car that we won't be able to own anyways. As far a the sales part. Once I got in the Focus and compared it to what was out there. It is awesome. It isn't not wanting to sell things. It is wanting to sell something that you belive in.

    Rick
    I had two Rangers. I couldn't come up with anything for aftermarket stuff for the Ford. Everything was for the s10 and s15. Yes there is stuff for certain vehials, like the Stang but not like the Ranger. Have you ordered a vehical lately? You can order one that is to your likeing and options that they offer. I suggested that they should offer some other options besides what they normaly offer. Like beefed up suspenion on the trucks and oversize tires. I am totaly a Ford man. I own 2 now and have had 2 others in the past. Like I told rpenner54, Ford needs to rebuild the Built Ford Tuff reputation. Get trucks back to being trucks and not sissyfied station wagons. Why waste time on concept cars that the public isn't going to buy?
     
  16. rockymntnhi

    rockymntnhi Active Member

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    Genlee , what do you mean . Prototypes that the public won't buy . Ever heard of the Viper, Prowler how about the PT Cruiser ??? All Prototypes , all built , all sell well ! What about the New Beetle , prototype , built , sells well ! Then you have some go sour like the Aztec , but come on that ugly thing didn't stand a chance from the get go . Good concept , neat ideas (built in tent) , But butt ass ugly , thats just plain ol' bad taste. And a very bad production call on Pontiacs top people , I've seen several of Pontiacs Prototypes and why they chose to go ahead w/ the Aztec over the others ??? Was very stupid ... And a flop is what Auto makers fear most , understandable . But you can't stay ahead of the industry w/o taking risks . I understand not everyone has the same needs . So offer the base that meets the general publics needs then offer us the chance to order options that meet ours . Or better yet design a new vehicle (Bronco) ! Built for the hardcore , off the wall , AND I just wanna be cool crowd . Design it off the original with modern looks (Hence the "New T-Bird", Prowler , Beetle ) Retro , Retro , Retro .......
     
  17. GenLee01

    GenLee01 Active Member

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    Retro is good. I would love to see a new 69 Dodge Charger R/T. Viper I can't stand that car. Don't know just don't like it. PT Cruiser what the hell is that suppose to be? Gotten use to the looks but what is it? A mini van? Prowler, that is the best they did. I like that one. Aztec that was a huge mistake. Another that GM is doing is discontinueing the Firebird and Camero. DUMB! The new Beetle. That shouldn't even be called a Beetle. There is nothing that is the same as the original. You have a similar shape and that is it. Besides that it isn't a Beetle and VW should be ashamed for even calling it that.

    I have seen Ford concept Expeditions. Very cool, but they don't make it to buy. Tbird doesn't excite me. Just doesn't have the fire power. Now a Bronco come back that is rugged and built the way the use to build them, now that is it. I would like to see Ford take some risks but nothing that looks like a space ship (Beetle). Ford needs to better improve the truck line before going to the cars.
     
  18. rockymntnhi

    rockymntnhi Active Member

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    Perfect Xample

    My point Xactly , you don't like any of the cars I mentioned , But somebody does , they all sell like hot cakes . They all started as prototypes . The manufactures (ford) can't please everyone , With one car ! But they can with a few of em' , or atleast have a chance . Look at what Chrysler as done , they are willing to take the risks and if you ask me in a couple years they'll own the industry. Hell, the way things are goin' they'll eventually design sumthin' that even you like GeeLee . I bet most of the people buying these retro vehicles are switching brands . I'd like to see a retro Bronco , and soon ! Get your S#!+ together FORD . Build the ultimate , Offer three or four versions . 1) The Basemodel that eveyone relates to and can afford , the one to build off of 2) The OFFROAD, Hardcore, Jeep killa 3) The Street fighter , 20' wheels , fast and low 4) ???? :bounce: :D
     
  19. BUCHVILLEMAN

    BUCHVILLEMAN Well-Known Member

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    what about the new thunderbird? i believe that wasa concept that was converted (being converted) to production based on demand and response from potential buyers.

    as far as inovation you are right ford has been lacking BUT they are cleaning up the conservative market. been to a country club lately, all you see is towncars, continentals, young guys in mustangs, families in explorers, expiditiosn and navigators. there market is based on a loyal conservative customer.

    the one thing that ford has marketed for Gen X is the ranger "edge" and it seems like a fine vehicle but it still conservative. look at the way these vehicles are marketed. the xterra is shown kicking a$$ on som nice dunes (actuall wheeling footage) even the ugly avalanche is shown wheeling. ford shows a chevy chase family vacation type of family fishing and canooing at camp cum-by-yah!

    conservative=consistancy.

    the f-150 sells so high because small businesse can rely on a basic vehicle that wont change too much and will remain relative price wise through the years. fleet programs keep their truck lines in business.

    i am a ford man. i am relatively conservative. andif im going to have a bad ass trail I want to build it based on a worthy canvas NOT a prefabbed, prepackaged, fly by night like the xterra or avalanche.

    i know im rambling....
    go for it.
     
  20. GenLee01

    GenLee01 Active Member

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    I wouldn't buy a Chysler unless they came out with a Dodge Charger that resembled the 1969. Look what they did to the Jeep Cheeroke. They killed it. They took a good work SUV and made it as wimpy as everyone elses. The Liberty is ugly! I am 24 but I like the older stlye of cars. I just hope they don't ruin Jeep. I love the Wranglers.

    Truck are suppose to be boxy. Reason why I have a 94 X. I do like the 98-00 X's. I had a 98 & 99 Ranger. That was the best design. The new X is ugly. I would buy an older one anyday. Like I did.

    Maybe I am old fashion, what can I say. I would love if Ford made there trucks like they use too. Back when you bought a truck it could take abuse like a plow without voiding the warrenty. Maybe some day they will.

    As far as cars, I could car less. I have a ZX2 and it is great. It is only for going to work. I got it cause it looks like a sports car but it isn't because of what it is and $$$. Though it goes like a bat out of hell. Not bad for a 2.0L. Whish my X had that much pep. If I had a choise I would be driving either a 69 Dodge Charger or a Corvette everyday. But unpractial. Well that is my 2 cents for the day.
     
  21. rockymntnhi

    rockymntnhi Active Member

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    True conservative = consistancy. But times change so should your product . If the F150 is doin so well for ford WHY are they gonna drop the name badge ? Because Chevy did . Why build a Focus to compete with the import market ? Becuase they are competition and they own the compact market . Ford woke up and figured , they were losing way to much sales to the asians and the " Import Seen" Ford shows some signs of effort , but not enough . When they built the focus they went at it half ass , they only aimed at the compact market in general , not in a whole . They pleased Joe Blo comuter , but who else ? They wanna get the toes wet but not the whole foot ! They thought the Focus was enough cause it was small , well they found out that being small wasn't cutting it . the others are small too , but they have style , speed and a base to work with . Now the focus is becoming something , it took awhile but ford is now offering a sport type version and is now appealing to the market they originally set out to .The focus now has a following in the import market , and the aftermarket companies are now stepping up to the plate to meet their NEW customers needs .Thats the way it works. Ford eventually meets the publics needs but way to slowly . FORD nuthin' but a bunch of conservatives , who are slowly but surely losing the edge they ONCE had .
     

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