Maybe Dead Transmission

[ffpmme]

Hi all,

Have a 2000 Limited V8 with 158,780 miles and have been having some trans issues. Yesterday, O/D light starting flashing on way to work. No big deal has done it before, and fixed itself. But on the way home is where things got a little sporting!

Light went off and drove at speed fine, got to a light and stopped to turn, and woo, first and second gear seas to have left the trans and i am moving along very slowly. If you have ever driven a standard transmission nd started in to high of a gear and the car runs but shudders, it felt like that. When it gets up to speed, it runs but it won't downshift, Was able to drive it home slowly. when I get up to speed, the great drops out and the engine revs with out any forward movement. When I stop and shut the car off and re-start it First and second gear comeback and I can drive but when I stop it is like I am stuck in the last gear that was in use.

Now this AM the pattern follows, Not sure what I can/should do. Does a Auto Trans have a clutch that can get stuck? No loud noises or bangs, which i would person to be a good thing, since I do not think it has exploded. Any ideas, is it worth fixing?

Thanks

 

[RandomNerd2000]

Money wise, you're probably looking at an about even split if it needs a full trans. If it was me, I'd fix it, the motor with care will easily go another 150K miles, and besides that, it's a Limited with the V8, it's certainly not a base model by any means.

 

[96eb96]

Don't sound good, but I would investigate the fluid level/quality and the MLPS sensor.
Could be also shift solenoid or valve body issue. A good scan tool can activate solenoids. May be worth a competent, professional diagnosis. Those are good transmissions, they are used in the Crown Vic cars.

 

[ffpmme]

Nerd2000: That is the main reason why I don't want to get ridd of the car, I do love the option on it, I know it needs some exhaust work also, and the engine probably needs a good once over. Even 17 years old, it is still fun to drive.

96eb96, will have to tow it in and see what they say.

 

[RandomNerd2000]

Yeah, I had a V8 one that was wrecked in June I've been hunting a good body for since then. I got an 01 Eddie Bauer with the SOHC to replace it, it's a really nice clean car, but it has issues around and about.

 

[ffpmme]

I am in Florida. Make me a offer I can't refuse. New shocks front and back last year. Gabriel's max adjust in back and kyb in front. Plus as a bonus, new windshield wipers. Last weekend. Come on can't beat it!!!

 

[RandomNerd2000]

Yeah but I'm 17, and no way to get it here, gotta about be local since I'm in SC and ten minutes from NC

 

[Macgiobuin]

Sounds like the pressure control solenoid is bad.

 

[ffpmme]

Sounds like the pressure control solenoid is bad.

Well that sounds workable. Is it expensive repair?

 

[ffpmme]

So after a ton of research. I have a 4r70w trans. So I can find them from f150 but not a lot of explorers. Since only about 8-10 % we P vin suv's. find trans that they say will fit. But they are the 5 speed. If I replaced it straight away. Would it fit and would it work with a AWD system

 

[RandomNerd2000]

I don't know much about Explorer transmissions, I didn't know there was so few V8 cars though, learn something every day

 

[imp]

I don't know much about Explorer transmissions, I didn't know there was so few V8 cars though, learn something every day

@ffpmme @RandomNerd2000
Interesting stuff for you both. 4R70 W is a revised AODE, which was an electronically-controlled AOD version.

"The AOD was redesigned with electronic controls in 1992, becoming the AODE. It was mainly intended for the new Modular V8 at first, but it was also adapted to the old AOD bell-housing for vehicles still powered by OHV engines. While the AOD, AODE and early 4R70W share some basic components like oil pans, gear sets (AODs and AODE can be retrofit with 4R70W gear sets), most of the internals are not interchangeable because the 4R70W and AODE use electronic solenoids to shift instead of conventional hydraulics. The transmissions are not interchangeable either, as the AOD only uses a throttle valve cable for operation. The AODE and 4R70W's shift points are controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) also sometimes referred to as the Electronic Engine Control (EEC)."

I will go to my shop tonight, just might have a shop manual including 4R70W. If I do, I'll be back with diagnosis info.

@96eb96 What is "MLPS sensor"? I am leaning away from the PC Solenoid, as these usually work, or don't, though they may jam occasionally.

What about DTC codes?? imp

 

[imp]

@ffpmme @RandomNerd2000
Interesting stuff for you both. 4R70 W is a revised AODE, which was an electronically-controlled AOD version.

"The AOD was redesigned with electronic controls in 1992, becoming the AODE. It was mainly intended for the new Modular V8 at first, but it was also adapted to the old AOD bell-housing for vehicles still powered by OHV engines. While the AOD, AODE and early 4R70W share some basic components like oil pans, gear sets (AODs and AODE can be retrofit with 4R70W gear sets), most of the internals are not interchangeable because the 4R70W and AODE use electronic solenoids to shift instead of conventional hydraulics. The transmissions are not interchangeable either, as the AOD only uses a throttle valve cable for operation. The AODE and 4R70W's shift points are controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) also sometimes referred to as the Electronic Engine Control (EEC)."

I will go to my shop tonight, just might have a shop manual including 4R70W. If I do, I'll be back with diagnosis info.

@96eb96 What is "MLPS sensor"? I am leaning away from the PC Solenoid, as these usually work, or don't, though they may jam occasionally.

What about DTC codes?? imp

EDIT: Symptom 1st. and 2nd, gear present only, Shift Solenoid 2 failed in "ON" position. DTCs: P0755, 56, 82, 83, P1751, 31, 32, 33. See if any of those codes are present. They will not ALL be present. Some are electrically related, others are mechanical issues not monitored by PCM.

 

[Macgiobuin]

Open your search to mountaineers. Most similar years of the same generation have v8 AWD with 4R70W trannies.

 

[Macgiobuin]

Well that sounds workable. Is it expensive repair?

simple repair; open the pan, disconnect the solenoid from the electric plug, take out the bracket holding it in, put in new one; reverse the procedure.

 

[imp]

simple repair; open the pan, disconnect the solenoid from the electric plug, take out the bracket holding it in, put in new one; reverse the procedure.

@Macgiobuin
True enough, if the solenoid has been determined to be the cause of the trouble. OP's description of symptoms is loose, hard to define and nail down. Quite a few other possibilities exist, based on his description. I used the only concrete symptom I could relate to, but could be out of the ballpark. The Ford troubleshooting method in the Shop Manual involves hundreds of steps, eliminating every possibility of error along the way. It of course uses an electronic device capable of turning on and off every PCM-controlled output while checking the results, electronically. Their method is complete, and nearly foolproof, but time consuming.

So I say, if evidence points to a solenoid failure, pull that goddamned part out and check it's viability. Wrong, ya start over.
imp

 

[ffpmme]

@Macgiobuin
True enough, if the solenoid has been determined to be the cause of the trouble. OP's description of symptoms is loose, hard to define and nail down. Quite a few other possibilities exist, based on his description. I used the only concrete symptom I could relate to, but could be out of the ballpark. The Ford troubleshooting method in the Shop Manual involves hundreds of steps, eliminating every possibility of error along the way. It of course uses an electronic device capable of turning on and off every PCM-controlled output while checking the results, electronically. Their method is complete, and nearly foolproof, but time consuming.

So I say, if evidence points to a solenoid failure, pull that goddamned part out and check it's viability. Wrong, ya start over.
imp

Thanks, I guess I will try it, Replace the 3 solenoids, and the filter. I see a lot of kits that you replace the solenoid, the filter and a gasket. So if thats it, then I guess it is a very workable repair when you are laying under it. It looks like I can remove a solenoide pack and bench repair them, then put it all back together. What fluid do I replace the trans with? Any recommendations? When I did the back axel I used Mobil 1.

I do not have any codes because, I do not have a reader and the only way to get them would be to tow it to the shop and then back home more $$ then its worth.

 

[imp]

Thanks, I guess I will try it, Replace the 3 solenoids, and the filter. I see a lot of kits that you replace the solenoid, the filter and a gasket. So if thats it, then I guess it is a very workable repair when you are laying under it. It looks like I can remove a solenoide pack and bench repair them, then put it all back together. What fluid do I replace the trans with? Any recommendations? When I did the back axel I used Mobil 1.

I do not have any codes because, I do not have a reader and the only way to get them would be to tow it to the shop and then back home more $$ then its worth.

@ffpmme
You can buy an ABS/CAN/Trans capable code reader for about a hundred bucks. Well worth it, in view of the fact that without the codes, everything is second-guesswork, and you might spend much more than that on solenoids, only to learn other things are fouled up. I would read the codes, if at all possible, and if they fail to implicate the solenoids in any way, you are likely looking in the wrong place with them.

By your description of symptoms, I personally doubt rather strongly thatsolenoids are solely to blame. You might PM JK080 seeking his advice; he may not have seen this, and knows a helluva lot more than I do. BTW, most solenoids are not really repairable, unless the problem exists in the wiring to them. imp

 

[Macgiobuin]

I've never seen a shift solenoid go bad. The Pressure Control solenoid, however, is a different story. That is the one that your symptoms are pointing to. It is the expensive one, fatter than the other ones, because it reacts to a variable voltage or variable AC frequency (to get various viscosity based pressures in the system), while the shift solenoids are simple on/off valves.

 

[imp]

I've never seen a shift solenoid go bad. The Pressure Control solenoid, however, is a different story. That is the one that your symptoms are pointing to. It is the expensive one, fatter than the other ones, because it reacts to a variable voltage or variable AC frequency (to get various viscosity based pressures in the system), while the shift solenoids are simple on/off valves.

@Macgiobuin
I respect your knowledge in this. But why do you not mention trouble codes? imp