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My new 347

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by Dono, May 22, 2015.

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  1. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    No idea on end play. The trans was rebuilt before I ever purchased the truck.
    The things changed by me were the TC and the valve body.
    I can rule out the valve body as I changed it after a thrust bearing had been wiped out.
    I can rule out end play as there were no issues with the thrust in the 302 that came out when the 347 was replaced.

    The trans guy that Tim uses is an extremely smart guy with this stuff, and he just can't see the issue being in the trans as the fluid pump would get wiped out right away. That does not rule out pressure though.
    Also, when I installed my intercooler I added a couple of 3/8 L connectors with some flex 3/8" line to keep the lines from rubbing on the intercooler. Is this creating extra fluid resistance pushing the TC out with more force? Could this possible be enough to start wiping out the thrust? Smoking gun? Could be possible, but I doubt it.

    The guys at YB think it could be the converter making it necessary to watch that line pressure closely since its set tighter to handle the extra load of the motor.

    I'll get my front bumper off once I finish with the air inlet piping on the back of the truck (Back of truck is as high as I can get it right now so I don't hit my head (as much)). The header wrap showed up today for wrapping the charge pipe close to the muffler.
    Then I can look closely at the trans lines and also see what kind of room I have left to add a small stacked plate cooler parallel.

    edit: and thanks gmanpaint, I watch the pain you live also. We are all blood brothers of sorts. lol.
     
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  3. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Have you seen the ATF cooler that Turdle has? That is a much larger model from an F250 I think he said traveler got it from. I'd start by finding one of those, the extra cooling alone is worth it, and it would reduce restriction also.

    The TC is the biggest worry I'd have, an aftermarket unit might be a little too long etc, creating the extra pressure on the crank. What TC do you have, do you have so much in it($600+) that you can't try a different one? That's also something I was thinking of Alan of DD for, he used to build a lot of those.
     
  4. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    yup, more than $600. lol.
    The converter is a hybrid unit. A large clutch assembly and a smaller diameter welded together so I can keep full size lockup clutch and get the higher stall.

    It came from TCS TCS Products

    I actually sent the converter back to them the last time the motor was out and asked them to check it over and reduce the size of it to the small side of spec. This meant that the TC would pull further forward to the flex plate when the motor went in. They did do this, and I could tell the last time the motor went in that the TC had to pull forward a bit further.

    I did check the pilot to crank clearance, and there is loads of it with the TC against the flex plate. The putty told the story. No issue there.

    I'm comfortable with the converter, and am sure the guys at TCS know their stuff.

    I'm going to see if I have room to parallel this cooler in:
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000CIGE9G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3PJT5UCXS2LXR&psc=1
    I want to make sure I go with a stacked plate design as they have highest flow. I might just do this while the trucks in pieces, although I'd really like to know if my line pressures were super high.
     
  5. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    I recall you sending the TC back, I expect they did make it right as you said.

    I wouldn't buy that small trans cooler, that's thin and only about the same size as the stock one(volume). Here below is what Jon has, see how big that is. I'd bet it's close to four times the volume of the stock cooler.

    I have two also from Super Duty trucks I got used from eBay. But they are not as wide, shaped more square, taller. One will fit well I think, but the other taller one I have would require cutting the center support. I think that very wide one Turdle has may be the best size for our trucks.

    F250-F350 long ATF cooler.JPG
     
  6. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    I hear ya Don, but there's no room there. My intercooler radiator is there.
    The guys on YellowBullet suggest a bypass for anything over 80psi, so I'd think not using the bypass initially and using this in parallel with the other factory coolers would reduce back pressure and still add more cooling than what is currently there.
    The stacked plate radiators are much more efficient than the other two types, and create the lowest back pressure. My goal is reducing back pressure, and added cooling is a plus. Iv'e never had trans overheating issues that I know of. The lockup converter really helps with that (As long as its locked, lol). In the end, its going to depend on how much room I can find when I take the front bumper off.

    I thought I'd post a pic of the hybrid torque converter that I was talking about.

    torque converter.jpg
     
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  7. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    I like it, that has bigger clutches in it, important for a heavy vehicle for sure.

    Try to measure your available space for another cooler first, I bet there's enough for the OEM units. I'm planning to use the biggest one I have for my 99, and one similar in size to that long one, in my 98 with an IC. Put it down low if needed, I've been planning to place the IC low behind the bumper inlet.
     
  8. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    ok, I had a look tonight at the task ahead.
    First, I noticed the line out on the transmission goes to the top of the radiator.....all hard line. I'm going to have to cut it. Once cut, I need some way to adapt to transmission flex hose. I found a 3/8" hard line compression fitting that I can adapt to 3/8" hose barb. Thoughts on the compression fitting holding up?

    Second, I think I'll try to add a second factory trans cooler in parallel, Why not? I think it would look, well.....Factory. I'm hoping Tim has one in his mini grave yard I can have. lol

    Anyone have suggestions? Remember, my goal is to reduce line pressure. I only see positive effects from this design.

    compression fitting to soft line.jpg

    hard line.jpg

    factory cooler.jpg

    trans cooler setup.jpg
     
  9. skpyle

    skpyle Elite Explorer

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    Hello Dono,

    I recently installed a second stock transmission cooler in my 1999 Limited AWD. I only removed the grille assembly to mount it. I used 'rivet-nuts' for the mounting holes. The installation on the driver's side more or less mirrored the stock installation on the passenger's side. I plumbed both coolers in parallel.
    Overall, it was not terrible.
    I am not at my computer now. When I am, I will post photos.
     
  10. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    Excellent! Thanks.
    My main concern is cutting that hard line to tee in a pressure sender and making sure I'm not running both aux coolers thru the trans cooler.
    I'd never have thought that cooler restriction could be an issue. What do I know?
     
  11. vroomzoomboom

    vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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    oooooh i know i do. wanna know why?













    it's coming off your old black truck! BAWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :D :D :D

    im going to see if joe has a flare tool for the lines. that way there will be no way the fitting will come off
     
  12. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    Of course I do Tim!

    edit: I just googled 'rivet nut'. Pretty cool. I think I'll try that. Looks like a home made installer is super easy to make also.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  13. vroomzoomboom

    vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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    rivet nuts are great when new, but have one not clamp down properly, or seize onto the bolt after a few years and watch pleasure turn to full on rage trying to remove the nut. as me how i know.
     
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  14. skpyle

    skpyle Elite Explorer

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    Hi Dono! Here are photos of the second trans cooler install:
    Please ignore how filthy and rusty my Ex is. She is a daily driver, and came from up North.


    100_2391.JPG
    Driver's side core support, where the second trans cooler will be going.


    100_2392.JPG
    Core support flange, where I will be putting rivet nuts for mounting the cooler. Look to the left, you can see a rivet nut I already installed for the upper mounting leg.


    100_2393.JPG
    Better picture of the upper rivet nut.


    100_2394.JPG
    Lower rivet nuts installed. I did it this way because there is no way to get a drill in there horizontally without removing the bumper. Which I wasn't going to do.


    100_2395.JPG
    Second cooler installed.


    100_2396.JPG
    Closer view of second cooler installed.


    100_2397.JPG
    Upper mounting leg of second cooler.


    100_2398.JPG
    Black plastic trim panel around the coolers.


    100_2399.JPG
    Stock cooler.


    100_2400.JPG
    Second cooler. I trimmed the black plastic trim panel to fit.


    100_2401.JPG
    Underside of mounting of second cooler.


    100_2402.JPG
    Hoses and fittings.


    100_2403.JPG
    Hoses and fittings.


    100_2404.JPG
    Remote spin on transmission filter plumbed in before the two air-to-oil coolers.


    100_2405.JPG
    Hoses and fittings.


    100_2406.JPG
    Hoses and fittings.


    If I had it to do again, I would have tried to make the hoses and fittings installation and routing a little neater. And/or painted the brass fittings. If you look closely at the front of my Ex, you can see the fittings through the openings in the lower bumper cover.
    I plumbed the two coolers in parallel, with equal length hoses to each in an attempt for even flow. The hot transmission oil goes to the in-tank water-to-oil cooler, to the spin on filter, to both air-to-oil coolers, then back to the transmission.

    If I had the bumper off, I could have installed the rivet nuts horizontally in the core support, and used the existing holes in the lower flange of the second cooler. However, it worked out just fine.


    Dono, I hope this information helps you!
     
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  15. skpyle

    skpyle Elite Explorer

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    Very good point, vroomzoombomm. These rivet nuts are aluminum. I squeezed the h*ll outta the installation tool. Actually, I bent the installation tool, but that is neither here nor there. The bolts I used are new cad plated, and I coated them with antiseize. Hopefully they won't be an issue.

    Also, I rank seized bolts in rivet nuts right up there with lock nuts on carriage bolts in square holes in sheet metal. Good for speedy installation when new, good for hours of howling frustration when old.
     
  16. tireman40

    tireman40 New Member

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    That's pretty
     
  17. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    Your installation looks great, and yes its helpful. Thanks for posting.

    If I'm not going to use rivet nuts, I don't know what else would be more effective. Looking at that pre-drilled hole on that core support, that rivet nut looks like it fits perfectly. The only thing I am going to do differently is cut the hard line going to the top of the radiator and plumb in one side of the cooler there. It's way more work, but I have the motor out and have the room.

    I'm on the fence at the moment about adding a trans filter while I'm at it. I'll look for a spot for mounting one. I have my bumper off, but think the inter-cooler is in the way and space is becoming an issue to keep adding stuff.
     
  18. skpyle

    skpyle Elite Explorer

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    Glad to help, Dono.
    Look at the photo of my filter for reference: I mounted it to the frame rail just in front of the black plastic trim that covers the bottom of the core support, radiator, and A/C condenser. I think there were two holes there already and I added a third. it is tight, but I have room to run a large WIX 51515 filter and not have it hang down below the bumper cover.

    Here are a couple of better photos of the remote filter install:
    2014-10-24 001.jpg 2014-10-24 003.jpg
     
  19. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    I think I have that spot free. This little project will give me something to do this weekend. Not too much thought involved, so there might be beer involved. Thanks for the great pics and ideas.
     
  20. skpyle

    skpyle Elite Explorer

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    You are quite welcome! I am always tinkering, and can't leave well enough alone on my Explorer. Hence the remote filter and extra cooler.
     
  21. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I used Rivnuts to hold the plate to the rear hatch, and to hold the custom E-brake cable mounts to the rock sliders. Been years, and they are fine. I am in a high humidity region, and it gets cold, not your cold, but in the teens. I wouldn't hesitate to use them myself. If they do seize up, you just grind the bolt heads off, and drill them out.

    The one tip I can give with them, is the holes drilled, need to be perfect sized for the nut you use. Too big, and they wont clamp, too tight, and you can't compress them to hold. For thicker metals over 1/8", you can't use the smaller ones, and you need the real two handed tool, that resembles a bolt cutter. The handheld tool that looks like a small rivet gun, is fine for smaller rivnuts, in thinner gauge metals.There is also a trick using a nut spacer, and 2 wrenches, if you don't have the tool. Youtube vids show how to do this.

    I recently purchased a couple hundred 1/4" Rivnuts and bolts for a current project. Cheapest place I found them & the tool, is from Amazon. Harbor Freight sells a handheld tool, with some assorted rivnuts included for $20 USD.
     






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