My New, New 347

I'm abandoning my old thread (My new 347), as the motor has been an epic fail for many reasons.
Against any sane reason, I'm trying again.

Post #1 is a thread with all parts for my own records. I'll keep adding to this as I have the time and know what parts are being used.

New (Used) unmolested factory block from Vroomzoomboom. Thanks Tim!
Eagle Forged 4340 Steel Crankshafts 430234705400 w ESP Armor coat option
Bullet Pistons BF6010-030 - 2618 Forged Flat top w TFS valve reliefs made for power adder applications
Rods -I beam Forged (From Old Motor)
King Pro Series Bearings
Michigan 77 SH1321 Cam Bearings
MEL10688 HV Oil Pump - Block and pump machined to fit under the stock oil pan
FEL-1133SD MLS head Gaskets
PAC-1207X LS Springs (Yes Tim, there is something Cheby going in to my Ford motor)
Comp Ultra gold 1.6 rockers (old build)
HRC911968 Howards link bar lifters
Comp Cam 35-775-8 proposed, may change after head flow number change 35-775-8 - XFI™ Stroker Hydraulic Roller Camshafts, Computer controlled (E.F.I.) with O.E. hydraulic roller cams 1985-95
rollmaster timing set (Hopefully re-usable from old build)
TW170 heads (old build) that will be ported and the chambers softened for boost
push rods: 5/16" with a length of 6.7" (old build)
ARP Head Studs (old build)
Torque converter CircleD SKU:30-09-19 11" 2800 stall triple disk lockup FORD 11" HP Series 4R70 Torque Converter
Trick Flow Track Heat intake (old build)
Cometic C5652-060 intake manifold gasket
ARP Oil Pump Driveshaft Kit 1 54-7904 (old build)
ARP Flexplate Bolt Kit 100-2901 (old build)
PCV Valve EV127A
header gasket remflex 3003

28oz Damper DamperDudes.net (Americas Largest supplier of harmonic balancers)-re-balanced by machinist to 0
28oz flex Plate 1830201 - Small Block Ford 289-351W 1963-1982, 28 oz Ext-bal, 164 Teeth -re-balanced by machinist to 0

Injector Clinic 650H 62lb injectors
Return style fuel pump canister installed in fuel tank (1998 Explorer)
Another 6an braided line added as a fuel return line
Aeromotive Stealth Electric Fuel Pump 11542 340lph
Aeromotive 13130 fuel regulator
Trick Flow TFS-5158000R fuel rails

 

[vroomzoomboom]

here's motivation for you (us, whatever) to get the motor in way before spring.
the motor picker STAYS at your place till the motor is in! lol

 

[gmanpaint]

Wall mount a couple oscillating fans, on opposing walls.

I installed a couple electric radiant heaters on the ceiling, and the oscillating fan really helps.

 

[Dono]

I'll look for some fans that I think I can make work.
I think the fans would really help with the floor of the garage not being so cold. Cold cement is ****ty to roll around on, even with cardboard over it.
I might even invest in a good creeper. lol.

This will be a bit of a garage project for me. We have had no fall at all. We went from great summer, to cool and lots of rain to......snow. A good month early.

 

[Dono]

off topic,
But this fan looks really inexpensive (In canadian dollars with free shipping).
https://www.amazon.ca/Lorell-Adjust..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=XQ0D3PRHY5DMY76M1SBX

 

[gmanpaint]

For the concrete, fasten 1/4" foam boards to 1/4" plywood sheeting, and cover the floor with it.

Not the best method but is easily removable and can roll a creeper over.

 

[Dono]

I like that as a project also. Paint both sides of the 1/4 inch plywood with an oil based paint first?
I wonder If I'd have the ability to figure out a reasonably easy way to connect them together in a way that I could build them as 4 x 4 pieces that fit together and keep the top surface smooth for using a creeper, etc. Could get expensive, but I sure like the idea.

 

[gmanpaint]

Paint wouldn't hurt it, that's for sure. It will be cheaper than you would think. The foam insulation boards (come in a variety of colors) are very cheap. I would just use liquid nails in a caulking tube to fasten them to the plywood. 1/4" 4x8 ply is less than $15/sheet here, and at 32 sf each, you won't need that many for a garage.

H-clips will be low profile tab connectors to fasten the sheets together. Most hardware or big box stores sell them in the building supply areas. If not, any roofing supplier will have them on hand. Using 1/4" sheeting, these are about the only way to go. I think 7/16" clips are as small as they make, but the foam backers should make them snug.

Simpson Strong-Tie 20-Gauge 7/16 in. Plywood Sheathing Clip (50 Qty)-PSCL 7/16-R50 - The Home Depot

 

[Dono]

I think I have a couple of 1/4 inch 4x8 insulation sheets in the shed ( P2000 Insulation ). Maybe I'll try one 1/4" 4x8 pine plywood (At $35.00) Paint it at the office one night, and take it home and use the no more nails to stick the insulation on. Proof of concept. Even that would be pretty nice to stand on, I'm sure.

 

[Dono]

My crank finally showed up.
I have to say I was concerned after Ford Strokers had posted video's of how bad the Eagle cranks were.
I can also say that I don't know if Eagle was having quality issues at that time, but my Eagle crank is a thing of beauti.

Have a look at the thrust surface. No chatter marks at all. Mirror finish Look at the over all. We checked for runout on the bearing surfaces, and its all but perfect. I would recommend Eagle forged cranks to anyone.

Hopefully my motor starts getting worked on now.

 

[gmanpaint]

That's just straight **** right there. Nice!

 

[CDW6212R]

I like those beveled holes too, from the factory too now.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

hopefully dimas will be posting progress on his fb page as well. make sure you tell me when the dyno run will be. i WILL book off work to see that!

 

[Dono]

I want to mention something about piston height and the squish area of the bottom of the head.
I've learned something about 'quench'. This is super important for detonation resistance. Google it.

Why I kept ending up with dished pistons, I'll never know. The dished pistons eliminated the quench and made my motor even more prone to detonation. My advice to anyone building a motor is to make sure you go with flat top pistons with valve reliefs. Then adjust head volume as required. Do not go with dished pistons to get the compression down.

You trust the engine builders as it's what they do. Unfortunately, like anything else, you really can't. I just keep learning.

 

[CDW6212R]

That's true, you trust the experts but try to keep up and learn why things are done. The quench is a critical deal, as is valve spring distance to coil bind. That contributes to optimum power and spring life.

So what are your combustion chamber sizes, and your figures/volumes for the compression?

 

[Dono]

That's true, you trust the experts but try to keep up and learn why things are done. The quench is a critical deal, as is valve spring distance to coil bind. That contributes to optimum power and spring life.

So what are your combustion chamber sizes, and your figures/volumes for the compression?

I have no idea.

The valve reliefs i the pistons need to be actually measured, the cc's of the heads need to be actually measured, then a calculation needs to be done as to what the head cc's need to be to reach a target of a compression ratio of 10.2 (That's the target and am assured that if its done properly with chambers softened, and valves un-shrouded some boost will be no issue and I wont have to retard timing to nothing).

The builder is not concerned at all about making the chambers all the exact size and volume required. The difference this time is that attention to detail is happening.

Its going to be interesting as to what the final result is. If the motor fails, I won't be trying again.

 

[CDW6212R]

I have no idea.

The valve reliefs i the pistons need to be actually measured, the cc's of the heads need to be actually measured, then a calculation needs to be done as to what the head cc's need to be to reach a target of a compression ratio of 10.2 (That's the target and am assured that if its done properly with chambers softened, and valves un-shrouded some boost will be no issue and I wont have to retard timing to nothing).

The builder is not concerned at all about making the chambers all the exact size and volume required. The difference this time is that attention to detail is happening.

Its going to be interesting as to what the final result is. If the motor fails, I won't be trying again.

Have you had a conversation with the cam designer yet? I'd let that person guide you the most towards a compression that can work well. Tell them what heads, hp(block) limits you have, the main factors etc, and rely on them to guide you to the best combo. I'd bet most would suggest a compression in the high 9's, like 9.7, but few would recommend 10:1 or more.

Pushing the compression up does improve the all around grunt, normal driving, and limits boost which can be good for the block.

Most people calculate compression ratio from basic specs of their parts. That ends up with an error I hear, of easily half a point off. You can do that for the parts you have, and use those for the cam designer, and deciding on tweaks during the build. Such as the head gasket, quench, head shaving, block decking etc.

 

[Dono]

Lets review what has happened with the so called internet experts I have dealt with over the years of failures with this motor. I'm not in a hurry to blame, but these are facts.

1. New motor goes in, it leaks from the rear main. The rear main was not installed properly, and also the cam position sensor (Distributor gear eats its self immediately).
2. Numerous rebuilds including aluminum head/cam combo purchased from a so called expert. This turns out to be a fail as the springs were not matched to the cam. As far as I'm concerned, this is an absolute fail, and no return business will go that way.

My opinion: These internet experts reputation precedes them and they are not really putting the attention in to the smaller guy (me) builds that they should. I went to them as I expected things to be done properly. They were not.

To answer your question. Making power requires higher compression. period. Yes you purchase a cam that bleeds off the required compression to use with pump gas. Yes, my builder has cam selection software (That's all the so called 'pro's use anyway). My preference is to use an OTS cam if there is a profile that fits my build closely.

This is case closed. I have proven this to myself thru my own experiences.

There is always a possibility I will get an 'I told you so', but I am the one betting money against it. No one else.

We will all see what this motor makes for power on an engine dyno once complete. Yes there will be losses once its in my motor with a different intake manifold, but we also know there will be a huge pickup with boost added.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

that and the internet "experts" will most likely wipe their hands if something goes wrong. its always better if you can walk up to someone in a shop and say "this is what i need/want. what is out there.". it also better if its in person as well because if everything goes south, you get to go back to the guy, and drag him across the counter (yes, i have done that once). the guy that is doing dons motor, i recommended him to don because he has done some work for me, and i know others that have had work done by him and swear by him. i didnt know this, but there are a few speed shops here that send their motors to him as well. a couple of them were also in drag week (one guy if you want to google is sheldon root who was doing monster wheel stands in a chevy acadian)

 

[Dono]

My motor is getting some love finally.
Here's some pics of it getting the line bore done.
Next is clearance for the larger hv pump and stroker clearance.
Hopefully by the end of the weekend the bottom end is well on its way to completion.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

his ears must have been burning today. im still amazed how nice that block came out looking