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new JLT Oil Separator

Discussion in 'Modified 2011- 2019 Explorers - Tuning & Mods' started by barrysvt, March 26, 2014.

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    1. alexleblanc

      alexleblanc New Member

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      Just ordered one, my first mod! The JLT catch cans worked as advertised on my Mustang so I know what to expect.
       
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    3. peterk9

      peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Welcome to the Forum Alex, and Happy New Year.:wave:

      Peter
       
    4. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      How is your JLT 3.0 separator working? I bought one for my 2014 SHO straight via their web site. I noticed a lot of fuel vapors in my engine compartment and HVAC system. I thought it was leaking, so I did a leak test and found nothing. But I was always curious why they used Air Brake Hose with pin holes for fuel vapors, until I found out that Thermoid Air Brake Hose uses those pin holes to let moisture seep out.

      I'm curious how your 3.0 is working out. Do you smell any vapors? My sniffer is very sensitive and I am 110% sure the fuel vapors are seeping through the pores of the hoses. I have taken off the separator for now until I hear back from JLT.
       
    5. rlarsen462

      rlarsen462 New Member

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      This may explain why I suddenly started noticing some fuel smell in the cabin after getting in after remote start + run for a few minutes. It doesn't seem to smell after that but I definitely get one under those circumstances. Seems to have started right about the time I installed the JLT 3.0, which otherwise went smoothly.
       
    6. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      I found out JLT uses Thermoid Air Brake Hoses that meet SAE J1402A, which is OK for environmental oil/water resistance but it is not rated to carry PCV vapors, fuel, or oil. I contacted Thermoid, and they advised against using their air brake hose for PCV systems. They recommended SAE 30R6 or 30R7 (fuel/PCV hose) instead.

      Gas residue was seeping out of the pores of the air brake hose, so I swapped them out for Gates PCV hose and it solved the problem but JLT insisted that the air brake hose was fine and that I was the only one that had issues.
       
    7. rlarsen462

      rlarsen462 New Member

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      Well that's not good. How difficult was it to swap the hoses? JLT is basically saying it's our problem then, so I shouldn't expect any cost relief or new hoses to be provided if I contact them?
       
    8. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      I would recommend at least letting JLT know, because they think I'm the only person with this issue. From their website store photographs and all of their prototyping efforts, they used the same Thermoid air brake hoses on many of their EcoBoost kits. I installed mine about mid-December and after about 1 week, I noticed a slight whiff of gas fumes but never thought too much of it since I was remote starting and thought it might be exhaust draft/wafting. After week 2-3, it got so bad that my entire garage reeked of gasoline and the source of the smell were the hoses.

      It's not a big deal to swap them out, I just went to O'Reilly's and picked up about 3 feet of Gates 27006 (PCV/EEC/Fuel hose, SAE J30R6 rated, 1/2" ID) and cut to length. Although if you can find SAE J30R7 it is supposed to be a bit better.

      An easy test is pop your hood and sniff the hoses directly.
       
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    9. Drive XR7

      Drive XR7 Active Member

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      Thanks for posting about this. Definitely 2ill avoid JLT for this kit. It's a shame, they make otherwise great products.
       
    10. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      They made some great Mustang kits and it looks like their 3.0 Mustang separators all use the OEM hard nylon tubing which is perfectly fine. I'm not sure what drove them to use air brake hose for the Explorer/SHO kits.
       
    11. FastRedPonyCar

      FastRedPonyCar New Member

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      Hey fellas. I'm new and looking at picking up a 2017 Ex Sport here in the next few months and I've been reading a lot on the catch can, baked carbon on the ecboost valves, etc and my searching has led me here.

      My wife used to have a 2010 Audi A4 which was notorious for its carbon build up on the valves as the factory PCV setup didn't really address the problem.

      I installed the 034 Motorsports catch can kit on the car and it worked wonders (in terms of collecting all sorts of oil, sludge, etc) but we recently sold the car and I removed the catch can kit before doing so.

      So I've got this really nice catch can and hoses but my question is whether or not there is an easy way to maybe just cut the AN fittings off the hoses where they ordinarily would thread onto the billet PCV adapter plate that comes with the kit and adapt them to fit onto the snap connectors that ford use?

      I had the JLT kit on my 2012 5.0L Mustang and it worked surprisingly well (about 2 tablespoons every 500~ish miles) so I am familiar with the snap connectors they use and probably still have the OEM hose that I pulled from the mustang when I installed the JLT separator.

      I have more questions about the sport in general but I'll dig around to see if those discussions already have a thread (almost assuredly)
       
    12. peterk9

      peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Welcome to the Forum FastRedPonyCar. :wave:
      There is a 'Search' feature at the top right that could prove useful in your digging around. Lots of info.

      Peter
       
    13. rlarsen462

      rlarsen462 New Member

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      I pulled the separator off last night and replaced it with the factory PCV hose. The fuel smell became unbearable and was giving my kids headaches, smell was gone immediately after replacing the PCV hose. They have to acknowledge this is a problem, especially with the close proximity of the unit underhood to the intake for the HVAC system under the wiper area.

      I will be calling JLT today.
       
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    14. rlarsen462

      rlarsen462 New Member

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      Spoke with Vinnie & JLT today, great guy and is taking care of the issue by sending me out some alternate material hoses for the separator ASAP. He acknowledged that there had been another call on this issue but otherwise many have been sold without hearing back on this. I would say if you're having this problem give them a call, they'll take care of you. If you're not getting the fuel smell, probably no reason to bother.
       
    15. Simon Stillwater

      Simon Stillwater Elite Explorer

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      I finally got a whiff of the smell you mentioned. I hate knowing something isn't right so I couldn't stop thinking about the brake hose being used on the JLT.

      This weekend I happened to be in an area that had an O'Reilly's so I picked up 4ft (I really only need the 3 feet you mentioned) of the Gates 27006 hose from them and swapped out the hoses yesterday. Took about a 1/2 hour to complete. The hose itself has J30R7 printed on it so may be it's been re-certified to a higher level. The O'Reilly website also notes it meets both SAE J30R6 and J30R7 so you should be good! Thanks again for pointing this out!
       
    16. alexleblanc

      alexleblanc New Member

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      I came here to post about my fuel vapour smell as well so I'm happy to see they are stepping up. I've got their products on my Mustang and was more than satisfied so I didn't think twice about who to buy from for the Ex.

      I've sent them an email to see if they will send me this alternate hose.
       
      Last edited: February 23, 2017
    17. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      I'm glad they are FINALLY acknowledging this. They used the hard OEM nylon lines for their Mustang separators, so I'm assuming they are referring to these for the "thousands of units sold without any complaints". I still don't understand what drove them to use perforated air brake hoses for carrying fuel vapor, even after I pointed out that Thermoid (the manufacturer of the air brake hose they were using) advised against using it in this application. Jay just wouldn't hear any of it because I was the only person that complained about it. I hope they just start using PCV/vapor hose in their kits from the get-go.

      In any case, I did more research and testing on my EcoBoost and honestly feel that a PCV oil separator and cleanside separator aren't needed or useful mainly because the bulk of the oil collecting in the intercooler and charge piping doesn't even come from the PCV system. The only benefit of a separator is reducing the amount of fuel vapors going into the intake manifold, which gets burned anyhow. I'd be more concerned about the stuff collecting in the intercoolers and not easily being able to clean the intercooler on a regular basis. Livernois Motorsports doesn't even recommend or sell a PCV oil separator as it can interfere with the flow which results in crankcase pressure issues that can affect turbocharger seals and other parts of the engine. Just my 2 cents.
       
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    18. alexleblanc

      alexleblanc New Member

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      JLT has gotten back to me and they are sending the updated hose at no cost. Good service to say the least.

      I do know that while I ran mine I emptied it out about every second week and it was half full of sludgey oiley brown water.
       
    19. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      That residue you collected would mostly evaporate within a few days, leaving a small amount of very thin/lightweight oily water. It's easily combustible from what I have found. This is with the factory oil separator already installed, and I believe 2015-up made beyond NOV 2014 no longer have a factory oil separator.

      That residue shouldn't reach your intercooler or turbos as it isn't part of that system. So I'm now doubting the efficacy of all the catch can / cleanside separators, especially given that Livernois doesn't even advocate or sell one for their EcoBoost setups.
       
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    20. Sgt1411

      Sgt1411 Elite Explorer

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      I didn't want to start a big debate about this either so I stayed out of the discussions but your summation is very similar to what I was told when I challenged some of the Ford engineers on the issue.
       
    21. jrgoffin

      jrgoffin Member

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      Posted about the factory parts on the previous page - decided against adding one on the Sport as well.
       
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    22. Drive XR7

      Drive XR7 Active Member

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      I installed a valve cover breather instead of a catch can. I can definitely smell oil vapors after hard acceleration, but otherwise it's fine when driving normally. It seems to dissipate quickly and I'm not hot rodding around with the kids in the car.
       
    23. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      I drove with a breather for over 2 months and did numerous WOT test runs, and the filter only had a tiny amount of vapor collected on the inside. There's a lot more oil coating the inside of the intercooler and charge pipes from the turbochargers.
       
    24. Drive XR7

      Drive XR7 Active Member

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      Are you saying the filter does nothing or that a filter causes more oil to saturate the intercooler and charge pipes?
       
    25. metroplex

      metroplex Active Member

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      I'm saying that the PCV system isn't contributing to the amount of oil coating the intercooler and charge pipes based on the lack of oil collected on the inside of that breather filter after numerous WOT runs during the 2 months. During that time, my rear charge pipe kept seeping out oil and I had cleaned that tube on 2 occasions only to find more oil.

      So basically, I haven't found any evidence that an oil separator or catch can is going to help EcoBoost engines other than reduce the amount of gas/oil vapors going into the combustion chambers. It does nothing for the intercooler, charge pipes, etc...
       
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    26. Drive XR7

      Drive XR7 Active Member

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      Wow. Curious if there are any solutions to this. Or any other cheap insurance options for these engines.
       

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