pinging and timing chains!!

[Woolval]

Gasket damage fix

Yes Dale, that is the spot. The U shaped rubber is in good shape (where your green arrows point) but it tore off the left side. Then, when I was putting the crank gear on the U was flapping around, so thinking it was just RTV holding it on the right side, I pulled it off to get it out of my way. Then I noticed it was an integral part of the entire upper pan gasket.

I've been thinking about it all night and I agree with you... use RTV to hold it in place and put a heavier blob of RTV where it tore on the left and right. I think it will hold OK. And if it doesn't... well THEN I will have to pull off the upper pan.

Off to see if I can borrow that in/lb torque wrench this morning, then I drive my wife to the Tampa airport so she can visit our daughter in Baltimore. That means I'll have the weekend to myself without any interruptions! Except for my dog who wants to be at my side 24/7.

Thanks for the pictures and help. I will use the RTV and a prayer.

Val

P.S. I read your post on the timing procedure. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2419107 After reading it 3 times it makes sense. I might get to this by this evening, after I return from Tampa.

 

[CDW6212R]

Don't worry there, these gaskets are light years ahead of old stuff. Before you would have cork side gaskets, and separate front/rear rubber crank main pieces.

You need to do yours the same, clean the areas very well, wipe it down and lastly with a rag sprayed with brake cleaner. Apply the best RTV that you can to each corner or joint of the gaskets and mating parts. You can replace the whole crank main section if you had to with RTV. But try to use the parts if they are intact.

I prefer Ultra Black RTV or Ultra Gray RTV, depending on color choice. Those and Ultra Copper are the strongest most heat resistant RTV's available. Ultra Copper can be used in place of header gaskets, I don't, but I've heard of it being done a lot.

 

[Woolval]

Timing question

I have my new timing chain parts in along with my new left front cassette. The cover is back on, a new crank seal installed, the pulley is back on the crankshaft and torqued down with a new bolt. Here's my question:

Before reassembling everything I was VERY careful about getting cyl #1 at TDC. I worked with a neighbor friend who has extensive mechanical experience and we both agreed that #1 is at TDC. Now that my pulley is back on, the 0 degree mark on the pulley is about 4 degrees past the pointer. (not advanced, but retarded) So, do I move it back to the 0 degree mark and then do my cam alignment or do I trust my work that #1 is at TDC and time the cams to the current crank location? Is it possible that the 0 degree mark on the pulley is not accurate?

My Explorer always ran good before, but I never got over 19mpg. I'm not a lead foot and was always hoping for better. Maybe timing was off from the factory?

I'll try to snap a picture and get it posted here.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49919859@N03 (yes, I did remove the pin from the tensioner)

Thanks,
Val

 

[CDW6212R]

Ford wants us to rely on the TDC tools, that odd spanner type of wrench to hold the balancer and lay next to the block or cover. That tool is not very precise in my opinion. I didn't like it, and using it on the block versus the timing cover achieves a different location.

Some people have achieved much better efficiency than others, and I think part of that is the cam timing. The very best way to do the cam timing would be to degree the balancer, using a degree wheel and a piston stop. If that is done then you could stop relying on that odd TDC tool. It isn't very hard to degree a balancer, it just takes a little time and patience. A degree wheel and piston stop are not expensive, most performance shops have them.

I suggest either accepting the slight lack of accuracy of the TDC tool, or take the time to degree the balancer and not use that TDC tool.

 

[Woolval]

Timing question

Thanks Don,

At this point I think I'll go ahead and loosen both cassette sprocket bolts so the sprockets can spin free (I have new bolts for left and right) then I'll work with my friend to confirm my crank has #1 at TDC, then I'll go ahead and time my cams as per the instructions. What a strange setup!

Once I confirm TDC of #1 then I will answer my own question about the 0 degree mark on the pulley. I did not notice anything move when I tightened my pulley bolt and there is no way it could go on incorrectly with the key on the crankshaft, so that's why I question the factory marks. But the only way to be sure is to verify #1 is at TDC. If I put the tool on the pulley I know it will be off it's designed mark. (honestly, I already forgot about that tool!) I don't have a degree wheel or a piston stop, but they both sound like they would be very helpful in getting #1 at TDC!

I'll let you know how it goes. For now, I gotta walk the dog. She thinks its all about her.

Val

 

[CDW6212R]

Good luck, that TDC tool was the biggest thing I wasn't impressed with. The balancer is a pain to work with due to the struggle of removing it. But that TDC tool wasn't positive enough to accurately find TDC. I never even checked the timing marks, because I knew that they would be different by a couple of degrees each time the TDC tool was used.

 

[Woolval]

BTW... the pulley has those notches evenly spaced around it and the position sensor (that the pointer is part of) apparently reads them in passing. So, if the sensor reads them and they are off by 4~8 degrees I'm thinking that would affect my timing. But the factory also says to place the 0 mark at the pointer for #1 TDC. Something must have moved during my work, I just have a hard time thinking the 0 degree mark is off.

I'll find out tomorrow!!

 

[2000StreetRod]

#1 TDC on compression

Before loosening the camshaft sprocket retaining bolts make sure that #1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke. The protrusion on the left camshaft for the camshaft position sensor should be pointing upward and not downward. The #1 cylinder camshaft lobes should be pointing upward instead of toward the rocker arms.

I improvised a TDC finder with parts from my compression tester and fittings from my hand vacuum pump. See the following post Prototype Manometer TDC finder

 

[Woolval]

Brilliant tool!

I'm laughing at the simplicity of your homemade TDC tool. I'm laughing with admiration because it is brilliant.

I did not loosen my right sprocket bolt for two reasons. One, before I removed the jackshaft sprocket bolt I put #1 at TDC. Two, I placed the timing tool into the camshaft end before removing the jakshaft sprocket bolt. So the right cam never moved.

I did loosen the left sprocket bolt (I replaced the sprocket) and checked my #1 TDC. I moved the pulley slightly to about 5 degrees advanced, moved it back to the 0 degree mark and my #1 still is at TDC. I am using a crude stick in the spark plug hole and watch for movement. This sure lacks the accuracy of your tool, but since my right cam did not move (I don't believe it did) I feel my 0 degree mark is accurate. Now I'll finish getting the left cam set properly, as your other post spells it out.

I gotta thank you guys for all your help. I'm getting the advantage of lots of experience, making my job relatively easy! I know I'm going very slow, but I have the luxury of borrowing a car from my dad. So I can work slow and avoid frustration.

Thanks again!
Val

 

[Woolval]

Dale, you state " The protrusion on the left camshaft for the camshaft position sensor should be pointing upward and not downward."

I don't know where the camshaft position sensor is. I'm guessing there should be something on the left camshaft for me to look at to see if it's pointing upward but I don't know what I'm looking for.

I just looked again and I think I see it. The protrusion is a piece of metal and the oil pipe on top of the cam has a curve where the sensor comes down. I looked at the valve cover and I now see the sensor. So... yes, the protrusion is pointing upwards. I think my cams are good to go!

Val

 

[Woolval]

first "major" problem

Dale, you were correct. My right cam did move when I loosened my jackshaft sprocket bolt. (see pictures) So now I'm timing (or positioning) my right cam. I got the sprocket bolt loose and got the cam lock (the tool that goes into the cam end slot) aligned properly and tightened down.

Now, after a major pain, I was able to get the sprocket locking tool in place. My problem is the AC lines are in the way and I can not get the socket in to tighten the sprocket bolt. Since I was getting frustrated I decided to take a couple pictures and post my status. It gives me time to step away and see if I can figure out how to tighten that sprocket bolt.

Here's my pictures to date: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49919859@N03

Time for a lunch break...

Val

 

[2000StreetRod]

A/C lines

Your third generation routes the A/C lines between the rear of the engine and the firewall. My second generation routes the lines straight back into the firewall which gives more room to work on the cams.

I admire your sprocket holding tool. Was it something you had on hand that did not require any modification? It seems familiar to me but I can't place it.

 

[Woolval]

sprocket holding tool

The steel bar was off an old wagon, part of the front steering mechanism. I went to a well stocked nut and bolts store (where I got the bolts to pull the pulley, including the large center bolt but 3" shorter to clear my radiator) and bought a bolt for the block and a nut, bolt and several washers to secure the sprocket. After drilling a couple holes it worked beautifully. Of course, without your picture of the chain holding the sprocket I would have never thought of this approach. So thanks to you for expanding my thinking!

I just returned from the hardware store where I picked up some plastic tubing. I dug thru my junk and found an old compression tester, so I'm making a manometer like yours. Since EVERYTHING related to timing in this engine revolves around #1 being at TDC I thought your homemade manometer is a brilliant tool for determining my #1 TDC.

On the right cam where the AC lines interfere, I had to remove the sprocket holding tool, then I torqued the sprocket bolt to 45 ft/lbs as instructed when using the special adapter tool. I did not see the sprocket move on the shaft, but when I put the cam tool in the cam end slot it was off about 4 degrees. I moved the pulley to bring the cam end tool flush with the head. Then, with the right cam aligned by the cam end slot tool I move the tool to the left cam. (back by the firewall) Now it is off by about 4 degrees!

So, back to getting #1 at TDC and start over. Thanks for the manometer tool design. Brilliant!!

I'll keep you posted... LOL. I hope your find me more of entertainment than an annoyance!

Val

 

[Woolval]

rear sprocket slack

OK. I've got both cams timed correctly. But... as I slowly turn the crank I'm noticing the right rear sprocket chain goes slack, then tightens up as I turn more. It is my understanding that the chain tensioner (which is new) should maintain all the slack on the tensioner side of the chain, and I should not see slack on the "pulling" side of the chain.

So, you will probably tell me to change the right cassette assy. And I would, except I do not have an engine puller. Plus, I've never pulled an engine!

I'm ready to start the reassembly. If this was your Explorer what would you do?

Keep in mind it was running good before I started this, just noisy at around 2400 RPM's, especially when cold. And my jackshaft chain tensioner was applying no pressure to the chain.

Time for another break...

Thanks,
Val

BTW... the homemade manometer shows my 0 degree mark off about 1 degree.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Slack is normal

OK. I've got both cams timed correctly. But... as I slowly turn the crank I'm noticing the right rear sprocket chain goes slack, then tightens up as I turn more. It is my understanding that the chain tensioner (which is new) should maintain all the slack on the tensioner side of the chain, and I should not see slack on the "pulling" side of the chain..

The slack on the traction side as you manually rotate the crank is normal. As the piston in each cylinder passes the point when the two valve springs are fully compressed the pressure of the springs on the cam lobes pushes it forward causing the slack. The spring pressure in the tensioner is inadequate to keep the chain taught on the traction side. When the engine is running the crankshaft is rotating fast enough that the jackshaft is constantly pulling the cam (via the chain) to follow it around. The hydraulic pressure exerts a much greater tension on the chain than the spring pressure. This is why Ford supplies a calibrated tensioner with no movable piston in the timing tool kit. The OHV V6 uses a superior type tensioner that is hydraulic with a ratchet mechanism to always prevent excess slack in the crank to camshaft chain. I believe there is way too much potential slack in the SOHC V6 cassette design. I've considered replacing the hydraulic tensioner with an entirely mechanical tensioner (no movable piston - like just a bolt). The existing design is vulnerable to timing chain slip anytime the oil pressure is low (such as engine start) or when the engine misfires.

So, you will probably tell me to change the right cassette assy. And I would, except I do not have an engine puller. Plus, I've never pulled an engine!

I'm ready to start the reassembly. If this was your Explorer what would you do?

Keep in mind it was running good before I started this, just noisy at around 2400 RPM's, especially when cold. And my jackshaft chain tensioner was applying no pressure to the chain.

Time for another break...

Thanks,
Val

BTW... the homemade manometer shows my 0 degree mark off about 1 degree.

If it were mine and I had visually determined that the rear guide assembly was not broken then I would not pull the engine to change the cassette. After 150,000 miles the wear from chain contact on my guide assemblies was minimal and my engine was not maintained properly by the previous owner. I suggest that you reassemble your engine and hopefully enjoy many years of trouble free driving.

 

[CDW6212R]

I concur, if the mileage isn't bad then try to leave the rear alone.

 

[Woolval]

rear cassette will stay!

Don't take this the wrong way, but I love both you guys. You've removed stress from my life. My mileage is 125K, but... not to sound to crazy... it's all on Amsoil 100% synthetic oil. My front cassette came out in pretty good shape, so the rear stays for now. And you can see how good my engine looks. http://www.flickr.com/photos/49919859@N03

I'm beginning to think my Explorer might be running tomorrow night!

Dale, I've been reading your thread here: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269442 Great reading, especially for those of us doing this job. I am concerned about the oil leaks from the rear tensioner that people reported. I hate leaks. I didn't order a new washer (foolish) so I'm torquing to the higher number as specified. I'm also using a borrowed Snap On torque wrench, so I have faith in it's accuracy. Would silicone be good on that tensioner or would it cause more problems? One of you mentioned Harbor Freight; I bought an in/lb torque wrench that was on sale for $20.

Dale, I'm like you in a way; retired and telling my wife this won't be a "forever" project. She wants to park her Mustang in the garage again.

OK, out to begin the reassembly. Good thing I labeled the wires and hoses I disconnected, otherwise I'd be in serious trouble.

Thanks again. (I know, I keep repeating that...)

Val

 

[2000StreetRod]

Rear tensioner & compression ring

. . . I am concerned about the oil leaks from the rear tensioner that people reported. I hate leaks. I didn't order a new washer (foolish) so I'm torquing to the higher number as specified. . . Val

I believe you have a new tensioner and are reusing the old compression ring. You shouldn't have a problem. I doubt that silicone would hold the pressure. Make sure the curve left on the compression ring from the old tensioner is in the correct direction on the new tensioner. Once you put it together if it leaks you can tighten more or get a new compression ring.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Adding coolant

Don't forget to add engine coolant to the block before installing the thermostat. When you pull off the timing cover a lot of coolant is lost. If you don't replace it before installing the thermostat the water pump may be pumping air and the engine may overheat.

 

[Woolval]

coolant and comp ring

Great tip on the coolant. It makes complete sense but I never thought of that.

As for the comp ring, that thing looks so flat I don't notice any curve on it. I'll go ahead and take if off to check if there is a curve and if I have it on correctly. Which begs the question... which way is correct? Access to the rear tensioner is easy since I have everything apart. I can get to it from the top with no problem, and no problem getting my torque wrench on it.

Don, I just remembered I ordered a new O-ring seal for my water pump as it had a small seepage leak. I've been so focused on the timing that I completely forgot about that. I probably would have remembered once I was holding the thermostat housing in my hand, but you helped me remember it.

Back to NASCAR racing, right there in your state Dale!

Val