Pre Oiler to save timing chain guides?

[griz700rocket]

So far my 4.0 SOHC only makes the timing chain rattle upon initial startup and only then if it's been sitting for a few hours and the oil pressure has leaked off past the recall kit installed check rod. So I've been thinking about installing a pre oiler to pressurize the timing chain guides before startup to hopefully keep them from self destructing.

Few company's I have looked at but most are very similar. Biggest difference I see is that some have a piston inside the canister and some use a bladder. Clicky. They recommend installing them with a T fitting where the oil pressure sending unit is but after some reading I'm not sure this is the prime location.

So then I got the idea to install one of these. Clicky. It should allow me to hook the pre oiler between the oil filter and the motor. Wouldn't this be a better location as the oil filter should have a check valve in it so that when the pre oiler is activated it will only allow oil to flow into the motor.

Any help or ideas greatly appreciated.

 

[SoNic67]

The "check valve" is actually weak silicone/rubber, it prevents just a gravity drain of the oil. I am not sure they will be able to resist the 20-40psi back-pressure from your oiler.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Accusump

I installed an Accusump pre-oiler after I replaced my timing chain components. See the link in my signature. I picked a cylinder instead of an electric pump since I didn't want to run an oil line to the oil pan. Now I think an electric pump is a better solution.

 

[Birdy]

I just have to chime in here and say, the last explorer I sold had the ohc 4.0 and it had 320000 miles on it. No chain noise. The guy I bought it from had it since it had 60000 miles, and he sald he was **** about changing the oil every 2000 miles. Zero motor work ever done! I'm wondering if these early oil changes are key in keeping the guides in good shape? Or was this just some kind of miracle making it this long. Also, he had no reason to bs me because both differentials had horrible bearing noise, the transfer case was shot and stuck in low, and I paid 500 bucks for it.

 

[sport trac 01]

does the engine have to come out to replace the timing chain guides??

 

[Birdy]

It does for the chain located at the rear of the engine. Unless you could get to it pulling the trans, although I have never tried. Heck, if you want to change the balance shaft chain guide you gotta drop the oil pan anyway, so why not just pull the motor to make everything easy.

 

[griz700rocket]

Thanks for the input so far. Still trying to decide what brand to go with. Already spent most of my left over christmas budget on new bilstein shocks so I need to be thrifty on this project.

 

[griz700rocket]

Went ahead and ordered
1. Canton Racing Products 24-046 Accusump 1-Quart Accumulator
2. Canton Racing Products 24-270 Accusump Electric Valve Kit
3. Canton Racing Products 24-240 Accusump 3.25" Mounting Bracket - 2 Piece

Cheapest place I found then was amazon. Should be here end of this week or early next week.

 

[2000StreetRod]

defeat switch

Normal operation allows the solenoid to open the Accusump cylinder valve any time the ignition is on. I added a defeat switch so I can turn on the ignition and not drain the cylinder. After replacing the timing chain components I still heard chain rattle at cold engine start. The spring pressure in the hydraulic tensioners is not adequate to keep the chains taught. Only after oil pressure builds are the chains quiet. Since adding the Accusump I have never heard any chain rattle. I wait about three seconds after turning on the ignition (the oil pressure switch registers oil pressure) and then crank the starter.

 

[2000StreetRod]

sandwich adapter

The sandwich adapter is normally used when adding an oil cooler. At what pressure does the oil filter bypass relief valve open? I can't determine if the oil flows thru the filter before the external ports. Hopefully it does which prevents unfiltered oil from entering the Accusump cylinder. Also, it may be necessary to connect both ports and add a check valve to prevent pressurized oil from the cylinder from returning to the oil pan thru the stationary oil pump prior to engine start. I used a remote filter adapter instead of an oil cooler sandwich adapter.

 

[griz700rocket]

Didn't go ahead and order the sandwich adapter. Couldn't decide what to do about it. If you order one just made for add on oil sender/temp ports they only connect in before the filter. If you get the type made for oil coolers you can't just block one side as ALL oil flow is directed out one port and into the other.

Now I'm thinking about just finding the best oil galley and tapping into there for the accusump unit.

 

[2000StreetRod]

external oil port

The only external oil port I'm aware of is the one for the oil pressure switch.
It is located on the driver side behind the power steering pump in an area with difficult access.

I installed a "Street Tee" fitting there for an oil pressure sending unit.

Another disadvantage of using that port is that it is near the end of the oil path in the block.

If the Accusump is connected there the oil pressure gauge will immediately register even if the oil has not yet traveled to the cassette hydraulic tensioners. The best location for the Accusump connection is at the oil filter. The Accusump installation manual has a brief discussion of one configuration using a sandwich adapter but does not show a diagram. I suggest questioning them about the filter flow and the use of a check valve. I purchased a Moroso check valve from Summit Racing.

 

[griz700rocket]

After reading over your previous posts I have to agree with you that the best point is going to be at the oil filter. In light of that I ordered a sandwich style oil adaptor and a moroso check valve.

I plan on connecting in the check valve on the output of the sandwich adapter, then the accusump unit before running the oil flow back into the sandwich adapter. The down side being this will be unfiltered oil. I run full synthetic amsoil and even after several thousand miles the oil still looks very clean so hopefully this will not cause any issues.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Derale D25770?

Did you order the Derale D25770 linked in your original post? The description states: "Allows oil to bypass filter via a built-in relief valve when pressure is too high". I still can't decide if the external ports flow filtered oil.
I think you have selected the best configuration for a non-remote oil filter system.

I searched the internet again for an electric oil pump that's suitable to replace my Accusump. They are more rare now than when I purchased my Accusump. The typical ones for turbo scavenging are not suitable. R B Racing sells two scavenge pumps with enough capacity to pressurize a system.

The standard pumps 2.6 GPM and costs $275. The super pumps 3.0 GPM and costs $430. If used for pressure feed, both larger pumps will pump up to 40 psi but the Super pump is rated at 40 psi constant whereas the Standard pump is rated at 25 psi constant.

I'm very happy with my Accusump but there is a limitation when changing the oil. In order to replace all of the oil the piston in the cylinder must be allowed to purge the cylinder. That means starting the engine without pre-oiling the first time after every change. The alternative is to not purge the cylinder which means starting the engine with (3 quarts in my case) of dirty oil. An electric pump allows total oil replacement with pre-oil capability. It's especially desirable after an engine rebuild.

 

[SoNic67]

I was contemplating this issue for a while too...

I think that the oil pressure port is adequate for pre-oiling. Sure, some pressure might try to go "backwards" trough the engine oil pump, but remember, that is a geared pump. It's tolerances are fairly tight, teeth are engaged one with another, there will be very little oil allowed to go past those gears.

 

[griz700rocket]

I did order the Derale D25770 but not from e-trailer where I linked to. After inspection of the sandwich I am 99% sure it does not flow filtered oil. What I am planning to do after oil changes is pull the fuse for the ignition and turn the motor over with the starter until pressure is built up and then reconnect the ignition. This isn't the best solution but will be much better than a dry start where the motor takes over before oil pressure is up.

 

[SteFin]

Good stuff I'm installing a donor 02 SOHC engine in a 2001 Sport. I heard the engine run before I bought it no TC noise on cold start or throught 3000 rpm's. How much slack should be on the non-tension Cam chain in the middle? Should I change the tensioner bolts anyway just because it's on my engine table? What's the best maintenance without doing the whole TC replacement?

 

[hondaslave1342]

What. Do you guys think about this kit..
http://www.engineprelube.com/faq.html

 

[2000StreetRod]

What. Do you guys think about this kit..
http://www.engineprelube.com/faq.html

That's a less complicated (no piston) accumulator. One advantage is that the Schrader valve allows for draining the dirty oil in the accumulator during an oil change. But since that releases the pressure a "dry start" is required at every oil change. With a motorized pump there is no accumulator so all of the oil can be drained from the pan and then the system pressurized before engine start. Since the Insta-Lube accumulator has no piston, useable accumulated oil is reduced when the tank is not vertical. If the tank is horizontal only half of the capacity is available for pre-lubing. Also, since oil is basically incompressible, a portion of the tank must always contain compressible air or the system will not work. That further reduces the volume of oil that can be delivered to the engine prior to start.

 

[hondaslave1342]

That's a less complicated (no piston) accumulator. One advantage is that the Schrader valve allows for draining the dirty oil in the accumulator during an oil change. But since that releases the pressure a "dry start" is required at every oil change. With a motorized pump there is no accumulator so all of the oil can be drained from the pan and then the system pressurized before engine start. Since the Insta-Lube accumulator has no piston, useable accumulated oil is reduced when the tank is not vertical. If the tank is horizontal only half of the capacity is available for pre-lubing. Also, since oil is basically incompressible, a portion of the tank must always contain compressible air or the system will not work. That further reduces the volume of oil that can be delivered to the engine prior to start.

Streetrod we all appreciate your wisdom and patience. Without people like you our questions would go unanswered. Thank you