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Pugly

Discussion in 'Elite Explorer Registry' started by gmanpaint, August 3, 2010.

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  1. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    Yeah I hate that. I think the most successful why i have seen done is by feel, I was never able to get it to what i thought was sufficient.
     
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  3. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Just got the new parts. Chick said have to talk to the manager about warranty and he wasn't there. Figures.

    Also said only part she thinks they would replace was the bearing, nothing else. Napa NO how!!!
     
  4. Albino 94LTD

    Albino 94LTD Recovering from Moab 2016 Elite Explorer

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    That is WAY more than I run. I seat the bearings with the wrench, back off completely, tighten (loosley) by hand and back that off a little too. When you (at lease me) torque down the lock nut you double or triple the torque value of the bearing nut due to the play in the threads.

    I've only burned 1 race onto the spindle and that was because I went about a year and a half without repacking the inner bearings and with all the snow wheeling I do,,,,,, I chalk that one up to delayed maintenance.

    I've been running generic bearings for years.
     
  5. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I have tried that too with no luck. Spindle nuts back off in a couple of days.

    I'm at a loss with it

    The new rotors, come with the races installed. I just counted 12 bearing boxes with a new race in them. That's over a 5 yr period.

    Hoping the changed spindle helps. I think once they get worn, it's never going to be right.
     
  6. Albino 94LTD

    Albino 94LTD Recovering from Moab 2016 Elite Explorer

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    I still crank down the lock nut to 250ft/lbs. No issues with them backing off.

    You must be cursed.
     
  7. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    That sounds about right. The last set if bearings I replaced under warranty, the parts manager said he wouldn't be able to warranty them again after they burnt up in 3 months.

    I made them warranty the seal too. he said no, and I told him that he would have to eat the cost of the seal because the seal MUST come out to replace their failed parts.

    Then I pointed out that I could just throw the old seal back in and when the grease leaked out and burns up another set of bearings and most likely the spindle I would be back and have then replace the spindle too... he didn't like that at all, and replaced the seal too
     
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  8. Turdle

    Turdle Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Sorry for the newb question, since I am not all tha familiar with the TTB, with pictures, could someone show me what locks the inner nut other than just a lock nut?
    Is this similar to the lock nut and ring used on dana 44?
     
  9. Albino 94LTD

    Albino 94LTD Recovering from Moab 2016 Elite Explorer

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    The inner nut has a pin on it, next is a keyed washer with indexing holes for the pin. That 'should' lock the inner nut in position. then install the lock nut.

    20181102_141536.jpg
     
  10. Turdle

    Turdle Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Then how in the heck can it move if the lock ring and pin doesn't? something in the keyway or lock ring has to be letting loose and allowing the nut to move.

    Right?
     
  11. Turdle

    Turdle Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    would it be permissible to clean the threads with brake clean and use some blue loc tight on the lock nut?
     
  12. Albino 94LTD

    Albino 94LTD Recovering from Moab 2016 Elite Explorer

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    Good question Jon.

    I have seen here on the forum where someone filed groves in the threads of the bearing nut to accept the auto-hub 'key' that also slides into the spindle key-way. I have and autohub key but haven't needed to try it yet.
     
  13. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I have had both sides fail on this rig. I have ran both the D35 & D44 spindle nuts. They both failed. I am having the most problems with the drivers side, but the pass failed horribly 2 years ago, and I had to replace the knuckle when that one blew out. Supposedly, the rotation of the drivers wheel vibrates it loose.

    The outer is pressed onto the ring and inner, only the inner locks into the ring. When they break free, all 3 of them turn. When that happens, the outer can keep turning looser & looser.

    I don't have the means to torque anything down to 250 ft/lbs. I have given it a couple grunts, and farts, with a 2 foot breaker bar, and no idea how much that placed on it, I just know it was tighter than an accountants butt.

    Pugly is cursed. I got the new rotor and bearing on, was in the middle of setting the torx, when the sky fell on my head, and lightning scared the pringles out of me. sideways rain, high winds, and electricity flashing all around me. Put a plastic bag over the spindle end, and shut it down. :(
     
  14. Albino 94LTD

    Albino 94LTD Recovering from Moab 2016 Elite Explorer

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    The washer key and spindle key-way should stop that from happening.

    I have also seen here on the forum where someone welded on a little more metal to the key and cleaned it up with a dremel so it had a good tight fit in the spindle key-way.

    These are the things I pay attention to when I repack bearings. I don't have the same problems you do.
     
  15. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Yup, it should, until the soft metal key on the locking ring is bent, deformed, wears or breaks off, etc.. and slips out of the groove. That's why I just replaced this spindle. That tab destroyed the threads on it. :(

    As many times as this has happened, I think I have seen it all now.

    Book says to torx it to 175 ft lbs. I fight to get it there, and when I am straining to get it there, sometimes the inner moves with it, and I have to start all over, as it is way to tight when that happens. Because of that, I would never have thought of trying to go any higher than 175#.

    If I can ever afford to buy a good 250# torque wrench, that would surely help my cause. That and the better style socket. I have the $25 4 prong version, and when it slips off, I tend to hurt myself on the way down. lol
     
  16. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    To get 250lbsft of torque with a 24" breaker bar etc, only takes 125lbs of force. So you can easily go way over 250lbsft if you are using that kind of long bar.

    I'm sorry I don't know anything about those hubs and nuts etc. My bet is given the many new parts and familiarity you have with those and the procedures, the issue is either the spindle, or the torque values and final forces on the bearings.

    Bearings are intended to operate in a defined environment. There are certain forces expected to be on the bearings and races, and all components containing the bearings. The goal should be to create the needed conditions that the bearings are made to survive in.

    I gather the problem isn't from massive vehicle weights, an 8000lbs vehicle that would normally be 4000lbs etc. So it makes sense that the bearings aren't dying from vertical stresses. The side forces would be multiplied from much bigger wheels etc, and hitting rocks and other objects from the sides.

    It sounds like the bearings are in over stressed conditions from the installation torques(forces), such as greater side loads on the bearing cages. So the bearing assembly is "twisted" figuratively from the start, making the bearings ride hard against the cages and races.

    Is there any chance the bearing makers could help with suggested procedures, about what torque values achieve the best bearing conditions?
     
  17. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    Gman A few weeks ago I was walking through the tool section at Lowe's and noticed a kobalt digital torque wrench for pretty cheap (compared to my snapon) that went to 250 if I remember correctly. I think it was under 200 bucks.

    I am not sure if it did angles or not but unless you are doing head bolts, on older stuff you shouldn't need to have angles. Chevy likes to use torque to yield bolts on there water pumps and motor mounts now... FML.

    And if you did need to, you can always do the "about that many degrees" lol
     
  18. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I just use the values given by the repair manuals. Always have.

    On a fixed object, that you can use all your body strength to push or pull, getting the 175# setting is not that hard.

    With this crazy setup using a socket with 4 little tabs to turn, it's not as easy. I have to use one hand, to hold and press inwards at the socket, and use one hand to push down on the wrench. Its counter intuitive at best. Knowing it will, and I mean, it will slip off, my body weight is kept evenly as possible while pushing down. I lose my leverage strength doing this. Catching myself before I face plant into the fender, and slicing my hand on the lugs, forces my stance at an awkward position.

    I just need the better socket, that doesn't slip off like a prom dress. Lol
     
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  19. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    [/quote]That and the better style socket. I have the $25 4 prong version, and when it slips off, I tend to hurt myself on the way down. lol[/QUOTE]
    I have two lock nut sockets for the axle nuts. The older one is shitty and will slip off. The newer one (that I brought you) is a slightly different design and waaay better about gripping the axle nuts.
     
  20. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    I know this struggle all too well.
     
  21. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    200 bucks for a wrench is not in the budget currently. Someday, maybe finding a used one on the cheap can happen. Is what it is.
     
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