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Remote Turbo & Oil Filter Relocation - a bit long - sorry.

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by greateyes4u, July 21, 2008.

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  1. greateyes4u

    greateyes4u New Member

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    OK, so now I've got the mod bug for the '97 Mounty. While I am considering a remote turbo install for the Mounty (and that comes with about 20 years of painful Saab turbo experience), I do have one question. I did a search on this one, but didn't find anything concrete:

    Are there any significant downsides to relocating the oil filter (actually, I'm considering a dual filter option) to the rear of the Mounty via an adapter and relocation kit? The reason that I'm asking is that for a oil/water turbo, there's already lines running back and forth from the front to the rear in doing a remote turbo install. Squires has done that well, but I see a lot of their applications indicate a need for the remote oil pump, but nothing isolated for the water circulation issues.

    Do you think the reason for the remote oil pump is because some of the turbos are gravity fed for their oil?

    I'm thinking that if I relocate the filter to the back and add in a loop to include the turbo oil line, I might be OK.

    On the other hand, because of the extra couple of quarts of oil need for the extra long lines and a couple of filters - plus the push into a smaller oil line linked via a banjo bolt into a turbo - the restrictions here may impact the overall oil pump performance from the front of the Mounty.

    Now, as I recall hydraulics from college, the leading pressure prior to the restrictions (i.e., read one extra filter in a dual filter set-up, extra weight of the extra oil in the links and one of the filters, and a restriction to a smaller oil line to feed the turbo) would inherently increase the front loaded line pressure - with a peak building at the junction of the smaller oil line running to the turbo. Pressure would be inherently LESS after the turbo when the smaller outlet -- and this is the line that will eventually feed back to the original oil filter location which now has an adapter in it's place.

    Now, if most oil banjo bolts are in the 12mm/14mm/16mm range, that's about the same size of the 1/2" inside diameter oil lines that would run in the majority of the remote oil filter relocation - so my restrictions may be minimal at best.

    I've read other items regarding the remote turbo install for V8's - and most have the remote oil pump - and none had a remote oil filter relocated to the rear to take advantage of the existing oil line pressure readily available in this type of set-up.

    If anyone has thoughts on this, I'm open... In fact, open enough just to take STS's proven deployment and plop it in without much more thought on this subject.
     
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  3. Cobraguy

    Cobraguy Well-Known Member

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    Just use an oil cooler system similar to a rear diff cooler for your turbo and leave your engine oiling system alone. The costs to make that reliable (if it can be done) would out weigh the alternative oil cooler and pump. Think about the extra loads placed on the engine oiling system trying to move that much oil back to the engine under heavy acceleration.
     
  4. greateyes4u

    greateyes4u New Member

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    Thanks for the input. I'll see what I can cook up with an oil cooler solution. I took a peek at Ford Racing's differential cooler costs - and I almost yacked at the $1,300 price tag.

    As to the heavy acceleration load point - the oil feed lines would theoretically be pushing oil back to the turbo under hard acceleration at a rate just about equal to the return rate back to the front. In a closed system, the point here is almost moot. Another way to look at it would be the same for the EFI and gas coming from the tank under hard acceleration - in a closed pressurized system, the point's almost moot. I've never heard of a guy starving of fuel using FI due to hard acceleration because of trying to move an amount of fuel back to the engine (short of running out of fuel and the fuel pump not picking up fuel due to the tank being almost empty).

    Now, I would absolutely support your point given the potential for cavitation - if the oil pump started gulping air/foam, then life expectancy drops to less under 1 minute, I'd guess, given a high temp situation.
     
  5. Jakee

    Jakee Well-Known Member

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    Well, I have some experience with this. I’ll start off by saying I don’t know everything but I know what worked for my application.

    First thing is the “Gravity” feed term you used. I don’t think this is the proper way of thinking. A turbo is feed by the engine oil pressure and is DRAINED by gravity. If the turbo does not drain oil faster than what is being feed to it, it will leak – no question about it. This is why a remote oil pump is a must. The remote mount turbo is lower then the engine and again a turbo will leak oil into the exhaust and/or compressor side without a remote pump.

    Second - If I understand you correctly, you are thinking about running a filter in the same line and after the turbo return line to the engine? I wouldn’t recommend this at all. The return line needs to be free of any obstructions. STS says you can mount the oil pump ABOVE the turbo if a max of 3/8” line is used. I had no luck with that. The pump can have a little suction but the best thing for a turbo is have the pump mounted BELOW the turbo. The reason I’m saying this is so you can see that you trying new things to the oiling part of a turbo application is really not a good thing at all. You’ll just make more problems for yourself and trust me, when you’re installing the turbo system, the last thing you need is problem after problem. A custom turbo set-up will require a lot from you so be ready for the challenge.

    The oiling part is the most important for a long living turbo so take others successes and build from it.

    For remote set-ups

    Mount the Oil pump below the turbo.
    Use -10 MIN oil drain line into the STS pump.
    Use 3/8” line to return back to the engine.
    Install a check-valve pre turbo to prevent oil from filling the turbo cavity when the car is off.

    If you want a remote oil filter, then do this, but be careful trying to incorporate it into the oiling system of a turbo. You MAY be able to feed the turbo from the remote mount filter but I’m not sure.
     
  6. greateyes4u

    greateyes4u New Member

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    Thank you for the input - this is very helpful to me.

    I was planning on putting the filter(s) before the turbo. The return line would be free of obstruction. The proposed sequence would be as follows:

    1. Oil bypass adapter replacing oil filter at the engine block
    2. Oil feed line from oil bypass adapter outlet to remote location & attached to new remote filter base inlet
    3. Oil fed into filter(s)
    4. Oil line from remote filter base outlet to turbo's oil inlet
    5. Oil line from turbo outlet run back to oil bypass adapter inlet at the engine block

    The check valve pre-turbo is something I never thought of.

    I may scrap the idea and go with the proven STS-like setup. I do have a spare beat up turbo I could try as a proof of concept. I could leave the turbo unmounted and just check the oil pressure and volume in and out at various locations (at adapter plate on the engine block, pre and post filters, and pre and post turbo).

    It's interesting in the STS setup that there's no extra water pump called for involving the cooling side of the turbos (if needed by the turbos).
     
  7. Silver X

    Silver X Well-Known Member

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    That's because they aren't using water cooled turbos.

    The turbo doesn't get as hot as when underhood, so a water cooled turbo isn't really necessary.
     
  8. Cobraguy

    Cobraguy Well-Known Member

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    There are much cheaper solutions than that. But running stainless oil lines, fittings, etc back to a turbo(s) won't be a charity event either.
     






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