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So long, and thanks for the help over the years. Bonus: BMW Comparison Info

Discussion in 'Stock 2011 - 2019 Ford Explorer Discussion' started by RandyH2, October 21, 2017.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. reserved50

    reserved50 Well-Known Member

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    *puts kids gloves back on*
     
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  3. Ellocovg

    Ellocovg Member

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    You guys are adorable :D I like my explorer as a lease but I definitely wouldn’t buy it out or any ford except for a F150 for that matter. The reliability or the resale value just aren’t there. I’ve never owned a BMW but with the second hand information I know about BMW’s I would never buy one either, they fall into the same category for me which is lease only once the warranty is up run away. All that being said If I had to buy a ford or BMW suv I’d probably go with a X3 which even though its smaller than my taste but from what I’ve heard are decently reliable. I’m lieing I’d buy a 4-Runner or a used RX :chug:.
     
  4. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I just looked up trade-in values for an 2010 X6 and it was within a few thousand of what you said you got in trade for your Explorer. I wouldn't purchase a new Explorer just because I don't like the body style, and my brother works for a Chevrolet dealership so I get a huge discount on their products. I have two Fords and three GM products and think they are comparable in price and reliability.

    The highest trade-in value for your X6, if you have nearly every option available and mileage similar to the Explorer, is around $20,000
    http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...r-the-years-bonus-bmw-comparison-info.467077/
     
  5. Bender953

    Bender953 Elite Explorer

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    I worked for a Toyota dealership in parts for 16 years and now have been at BMW parts for 5 months and there is no comparison. I was shocked that every BMW tech here says never own a beemer out of warranty because they are junk. The Toyotas were stupid reliable so this is a shock everyday looking up parts needed for the techs. I have had 3 crown vics, an 11 Taurus and my 16 Explorer with very few problems. Sounds like a couple have had some problem vehicles but overall I believe that Ford is overall a reliable brand.
     
  6. RandyH2

    RandyH2 Active Member

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    I stand corrected: trade in for our X6 would probably be closer to $20,000 but not $13,500. I was remembering private seller prices from last year. Current price is around $25,000 so that does make a big difference. I also checked the purchase price and was wrong on it.
    Revised numbers:
    BMW: ~$4,900/year to date (7.7 years) Zero days without vehicle- loaner car provided
    Ford: ~$4,583 per year of frustration.
    BUT---- It was in the shop at least 15 times, out of service at least 10 work days with no loaner vehicle provided except once for 1 day. What dollar amount do you add for the cost of time off of work and cost for inconvenience of being without a car? I'd guesstimate it at a full week of time off. That has a dollar value but also a VERY significant quality of life cost (lost vacation time).

    Honestly, I considered a replacement Explorer but could not find one in my desired color/options/model year combo. I do like the vehicle- it is comfy, spacious, etc., and I thought, "What are the odds of getting TWO crappy cars?". But then I considered the odds of having one car with so many problems in different systems (paint, engine, transmission, suspension, interior) and realized it was an overall quality issue, not a lemon issue. I think Ford knows their target market well and doesn't worry about people like me: car fans who want to keep a vehicle long-term. They build a car for the short term and don't worry about it once the warranty expires. That may even be part of the overall plan since the dealerships make so much of their revenue from servicing vehicles.
     
  7. smcnair

    smcnair New Member

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    Interesting comments on the BMW X5...my 07 X5 4.8 has 148,000 on it and still looks and drives like a brand new car and has no issues. Also, the parts are no more expensive that for our 14 explorer except for suspension components. Also, it is an absolute beast if you put your foot in it unlike the Explorer that sounds like it is going to explode. Air conditioner doesn't stink and the door panels are still intact.
     
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  8. kmarnes

    kmarnes Active Member

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    I've owned BMW in the past, and I love the brand except that Audi > BMW now. It sounds like you got lucky with your X6 and unlucky with your Explorer. So far my 2017 (14 months) seems to be solid, not a single problem. But Ford does have a reputation for middle-of-the-road reliability, so I bought a 10 year extended warranty with the car for piece of mind.

    https://www.edmunds.com/ford/explorer/2017/st-401638396/cost-to-own/ (2017 Explorer Sport V6 AWD)
    https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x6/2017/st-401671410/cost-to-own/ (2017 BMW X6 mid trim V6 AWD)

    In every category, the Ford is a cheaper car to buy, insure, maintain, fuel, repair, etc. The BMW is nicer and more expensive. But this is the law of averages, some people will be lucky and some people won't. Although for the money today, I would go for the Audi Q7. The X6 is dated at present. And Audi is one of the most reliable car brands (3rd place after Toyota and Lexus). I wanted the Audi Q7 but it was 50% more expensive than the equivalently spec'd Explorer Sport. ($90k Canadian for the Q7 out the door, vs $60k Canadian for the Sport out the door). The Volvo XC90 is a pretty, yet festering pile of failure for the same price as a Q7.

    The one nice thing going for BMW is that all your maintenance is included for 3 years, so you'll never have any repair expenses under normal circumstances. But then they charge you for that upfront in the price. But given that you are driving a 2010 X6 out of warranty, you just wait for something to break and see what happens. For BMW, this is genius because it pads the reliability survey data and makes the car appear that it's cheap to repair. Ford maintenance was incredibly expensive to pre-purchase, so I passed on that.

    My BMW 325i out of warranty was getting too expensive, so I eventually sold it. And I had a lot of warranty work done on it too which was mostly electronic gremlins. I've had shitty fords too in my young days (Escort x 2), and the most reliable car I've ever owned have been Hondas. But Hondas are boring, but then again, so are Escorts.

    All the German branded SUVs lose a lot of cargo space, interior cubby space, power plugs, usb plugs, etc. over American equivalents. And BMW doesn't even make a proper 7 seater (yeah, you can option it in a X5, but you effectively lose your cargo space).

    I cross shopped and compared a ton of cars before I bought the Explorer. I also thought I'd never own a Ford again, but it was the perfect car for the price range. And while I was slightly ambivalent at first, I definitely have not regretted it at all. So count me lucky :)
     
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  9. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Objective, well said, I appreciate that.

    I'm an American, my parents owned Ford/Chevy/Dodge/AMC/Pontiac/Olds/Mercury, nothing else I recall, oh, one Civic after I went to college. I've never owned any car from an Asian country, and I never will. There are countless American vehicle choices, no need to ever shop Jap junk. I don't mind European cars, those countries are relatively good friends/neighbors of ours. But I have no intent to ever add support to the companies of Japan, Korea etc, given a good choice. American cars are plenty for me, though I wouldn't turn my nose at any BMW. I love a ton of European cars, but I don't need one. Regards,
     
  10. reserved50

    reserved50 Well-Known Member

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    Most Japanese cars aren't built in Japan (some probably don't have a single part from Japan in them),just like many domestic cars aren't built in America. The Exploder is junk compared to even the worst "Jap junk" by a landslide hands down. If a European SUV has some peoples sway then fine, I just wouldn't trust one out of warranty, too many gremlins. Leave me stranded in the desert and I'll pick any Honda or Toyota every time to get me back.

    By not supporting Japanese cars you are leaving Canadians/Americans out of work:(
    http://media.toyota.ca/releases/canadas-most-popular-toyota-suv-is-now-made-in-canada
     
  11. kmarnes

    kmarnes Active Member

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    I've got no qualms with Japanese vs American vs European cars.

    Japanese : Economically focused, reliable, and low depreciation.
    American: Power focus and good bang for the buck, but fast depreciation.
    German: Luxury and performance -- expensive to buy and maintain, and worst depreciation.

    I wanted a 7-seater SUV with lots of power. The Explorer Sport was perfect for that. Nothing in the Japanese lineup could qualify, and European cars were too expensive for any sort of performance variant. I found Japanese SUVS, in particular the Mazda CX line are better than Fords at the lower trim levels, but once you get into the premium trims (Sport & above), the Fords leave them in the dust. A CX-9 is powered by a 2.5L 4 cylinder single turbo generating 250 horsepower. That's great for fuel economy, but that's definitely not going to be fun to drive. But likely a better choice for most people. Honda Pilot foo-bared their redesign, particularly the transmission and center console.

    I can't say enough bad stuff about the Volvo XC90 -- the engine sounded like angry hamsters. Totally underpowered car with a 4-banger with supercharger and turbocharger. But the interior was gorgeous with little Swedish flags stitched in, except now it's built in China and owned by Geely, a Chinese company. With laughably bad reliability and a terrible decision to make a car that only uses touch screen for everything, including climate. You have to wait for the damn thing to boot up before you can alter the climate controls. Good luck trying to do anything while driving. Seriously the prettiest worst car I've ever test driven!

    I didn't want to like the Ford or the Explorer... after some bad experiences over 15 years ago, but they sure came a long way. Damn thing looks like a posing Land Rover.
     
  12. Mbrooks420

    Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer EF Vendor

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    The average Honda has way more American made parts and labor than any Ford/Chevy you will ever own.
     
  13. blwnsmoke

    blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    And all the profits go overseas to corporate.. Ford's profits go to Dearborn and GMs stay here..

    I rather keep the profits here then go overseas.
     
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  14. Mbrooks420

    Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer EF Vendor

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    I'd rather support the American working man than worry about wealthy CEOs and board members. I don't care if it's an American company if their engineering is trash and they don't make their garbage design shortcomings right when they fail.
     
  15. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    There are a certain number of Americans building parts or cars in the USA. That number is similar every year, what changes is how many are laid off and then hired by another company. Generally the number of cars made in the USA stays very much the same, whether they are Honda/Toyota/Nissan made here, or Ford/Chevy/Dodge made here.

    When you buy a Toyota, all of the profit goes to Japan, and the rest to American workers or dealers etc. When you buy a Ford, all the profit stays here, and the rest goes to American workers or dealers etc. Buying foreign cars does not help American workers or businesses, no, that money was going to go to them in any case, for the first reason/fact of my first paragraph.

    The big deal is the profit, most of what cars cost goes to the company, in the country it is based in. Thus buying Toyota's, that helps Japan, not America, and has no effect on American jobs.
     
  16. reserved50

    reserved50 Well-Known Member

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    Which goes back into the company to open more factories to hire more workers etc, doesn't matter who ever the owners are and what current land mass they reside in. Either way I don't really care who makes or designs the vehicle, if I like it I buy it, even if it does break down more than often or not, not once have I done a search to find the nationality of the owners of car company while walking thru a lot. Based on this I'm guessing a few people do vast amounts of research to see who the profit of a vehicle they are buying goes to, what if they researched wrong, are they going to sell it and try again?:thumbsup:
     
  17. Mbrooks420

    Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer EF Vendor

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    Of course it effects jobs. Ford doesn't do much for jobs when they have HUGE backlogs of cars the CAN'T sell. Honda could EASILY build their cars and parts in Mexico or elsewhere, and have a huge impact on American jobs. I won't support a company just because it is American. If their engineering is inferior, they do not get my hard earned money.
     
  18. ExPlat

    ExPlat Elite Explorer

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  19. kmarnes

    kmarnes Active Member

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  20. Forddealz

    Forddealz Active Member

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    Did Land Rover developers influence 2016 Explorer design in some way? From some distance away it's sometimes difficult to distinguish between the two.
     
  21. RandyH2

    RandyH2 Active Member

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    Yes, Ford essentially took the design from Land Rover during the period of time that Ford owned Jaguar/Land Rover. That explains the Explorer design as well as many of the current Ford sedan designs.

    They sold to TaTa in 2008(?)
     
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