Solenoid Block versus Servo Bore Problem - 2005 w/5R55S Tranny

[djervin]

Hey did the solenoid block fix your issue? I am having the SAME problems and actually replaced the solenoid block first without any luck.... Now I am thinking that I want to replace the valve body and don't want to continue to throw money at it without anything getting fixed....

 

[LTCPipkin]

No, I haven't replaced the solenoid block yet. Most of my research suggested that I had a better chance of success if I replaced the OD and IM Servos instead of the solenoid block. Well, you took the Solenoid Block approach and we both continue to have the problem.

I suppose I should have replaced the solenoid block first, but figured the servos would eventually wear out anyway. I guess the fact that my symptoms didn't appear gradually...just a gentle clunk from 5th into 4th one day with no flaring or other shifting problems.

I guess I'm holding out on replacing the solenoid block. A tranny whine when cold starting (10 degrees this morning) causes concern. Once it warms up or shifts out of first, the whine goes away. I still have to force a shift to 2nd by letting off the pedal...still no 5th.

I need a dependable car and can't afford to let this tranny nickel and dime me and still leave me on the side of the road late at night. So, I'm leaning towards ordering the rebuilt 5R55S tranny from Drive Power (thru AutoZone). Their price is just $1800 with a 3 year/100K warranty. Looked at a Jasper, but they want $2700 for the same rebuild and same warranty. The tech at Drive Power (www.drivepowerusa.com) described the fixes/TSBs they install during the rebuild and it sounds like a quality job. My local tranny shops are thieves and I won't spend my money there.

Let us know if you take the next step and replace the OD and IM Servos. I'm interested to learn if it's not the solenoid or servos...just what the hell is next??

Michael

 

[IInspector]

solenoid blk vs. servo bore.......

I have a 2002 explorer 4.0 4x4. I have shifting problems meaning:
1. Wont go into drive.
2. Wont go into reverse.
3. I can drive it if I start in 1st - 3rd. When i get to 40-45, I can shift into drive as long as the od is off. Then after i get to around 60-65 or so I can turn the od back on and it will drive fine.

Soooo,
I have replaced my solenoid block. Little improvement.
I have resleeved the case for both intermediate and od servos. No improvement.

Dont know what else to do????

 

[LTCPipkin]

hobbitak, thanks for scanning the soldenoid diagrams and resistance charts. The only problem is my PCM 175B connector doesn't look anything like those diagrams. I've got a 2005 Explorer 5R55S tranny. I just took the pic below this morning.

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/PCMConnector2005Explorer.jpg

The only online drawing I can find are for a 2009 Mustang 5R55S.

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/PCMConnector2009Mustang.jpg

Help!! Why doesn't my PCM 175B Connector look like every service manual and post I have read??

Michael

 

[Mike_B_SVT]

A tranny whine when cold starting (10 degrees this morning) causes concern. Once it warms up or shifts out of first, the whine goes away. I still have to force a shift to 2nd by letting off the pedal...still no 5th.

I need a dependable car and can't afford to let this tranny nickel and dime me and still leave me on the side of the road late at night. So, I'm leaning towards ordering the rebuilt 5R55S tranny from Drive Power (thru AutoZone). Their price is just $1800 with a 3 year/100K warranty. Looked at a Jasper, but they want $2700 for the same rebuild and same warranty. The tech at Drive Power (www.drivepowerusa.com) described the fixes/TSBs they install during the rebuild and it sounds like a quality job. My local tranny shops are thieves and I won't spend my money there.

Let us know if you take the next step and replace the OD and IM Servos. I'm interested to learn if it's not the solenoid or servos...just what the hell is next??

Michael

I'm in a similar boat with the wife's rig (5R55W @ 106k). It still has all gears, but 2nd and 5th are "clunky" / twitchy when shifting. Lift on shift into 2nd and it shifts fine, but if you hold the pedal it has a twitchy hesitation like it just isn't "grabbing" 2nd. Going into 5th it shifts HARD, like it is trying to drop the trans off in the gutter!
We also have the 1st gear (and reverse) whine that you mentioned.

Currently we are debating a rebuild vs swapping in a remanufactured unit. Your info, prices, and links are much appreciated!

 

[SyberTiger]

I need a dependable car and can't afford to let this tranny nickel and dime me and still leave me on the side of the road late at night. So, I'm leaning towards ordering the rebuilt 5R55S tranny from Drive Power (thru AutoZone). Their price is just $1800 with a 3 year/100K warranty. Looked at a Jasper, but they want $2700 for the same rebuild and same warranty. The tech at Drive Power (www.drivepowerusa.com) described the fixes/TSBs they install during the rebuild and it sounds like a quality job. My local tranny shops are thieves and I won't spend my money there.

Have you made any decisions on this yet?

I just called my local AutoZone and got a quote of $1620 for a remanufactured tranny for my 2002 4x4 Exploder (55R5s). They said it is built by Moveras not Drive Power. I also called AdvancedAuto and got a quote of $1695 for a Moveras built tranny. They also have one built by ETE for $2145 but had no info on why there is a $450 difference. They didn't have a clue as to whether or not the price includes a remanufactured torque converter.

 

[LTCPipkin]

My local (Richmond, VA) Advance Auto and NAPA carry the Moveras tranny. Don't quiz the folks there, they know NOTHING about the rebuild process. GOOGLE Moveras and contact them directly in New Hampshire.

My local Autozone carries the Drive Power rebuilt. If I remember, it's $1800 delivered to the store. $415 core until you return your dead one to the store. By shipping it to the store, no shipping charges.

Good luck...in the midst of pulling down the solenoid pack. Fluid is nasty, with the usual gathering of magnetic debris around the magnet. Fortunately, no surprise pieces-parts waiting for me at the bottom of the pan.

Plan on checking the solenoid pack resistance values and will post shortly.

Michael

 

[LTCPipkin]

Solenoid Pack Resistance Values

Couldn't get a good read thru the PCM Connector, so decided to drop the pan and take the sucker out!!

OLD Solenoid Pack:

Shift Solenoid A = 24.7
SS B = 23.7
SS C = 24.5
SS D = 24.9

Pressure Control A = 4.7
PC B = 4.8
PC C = 4.7

NEW Solenoid Pack (not yet installed):
SS A = 30.6
SS B = 30.1
SS C = 35.8
SS D = 30.0

All of the Pressure Control reading significantly exceed the 3.3-7.5 Ohms range.

So, what do I do now given a SS B error code? Even though the old solenoid values for SS A thru SS D fall within the acceptable range of 16-45 Ohms, doe the fact that SS B seems to be one Ohm lower mean it's bad and the source of the P0775?

Also, why would the pressure control values be outside the acceptable range for the new solenoid pack?

I ain't putting the new solenoid pack into this puppy until you guys tell me how to interpret these resistance values.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[daveleeander]

You can be losing fluid pressure anywhere in the circuit and have a 775 code set (low pressure sol B). I had the code because of a broken OD servo. Put the o'ring repair in and all is fine once again. No codes. Had nothing to do with solenoid block, had to do with the press switch B not seeing the proper pressure.

 

[LTCPipkin]

What now???

STATUS:

1. Servo Bore o-ring fix installed
2. New solenoid block installed
3. New filter and 6 quarts MERCON V

Still getting the P0775 (Pressure Control Solenoid B) error code. Won't shift into 2nd or 5th. Blinking OD light, SES lit.

When I drained the tranny fluid, it was dirty as expected for 118K miles, but no parts found in pan. Just the usual metal dust clinging to the magnet. When I filtered the old fluid, I did find a single copper/brass colored flake. It's quite small...see pic with the flake on the tip of my index finger.

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/CopperFlake.jpg

From what part did this come? Since it's not magnetic, could other similar parts have clogged the valve body to give me the PC Solenoid B error?

I find myself at another crossroads...do I continue searching for a solution by continuing to disassemble/replace parts. OR, do I just cut my losses and order that rebuilt tranny?? Got $425 invested in parts and $150 in labor so far. Those expenses would have probably been better placed on the rebuilt tranny. Yup, hindsight always presents a clearer view!!

The previous poster said something interesting...something about PC B pressure being low. Since my PC B soldenoid is most likely good and I've replaced the servos, then what would cause the pressure problem? Valve body, Torque converter, pump, what?? If it's the pump, why does 3rd and 4th shift smoothly and 2nd/5th don't? Does this copper/brass flake belong to a component that could be the culprit or just create small particles that has clogged something along the fluid's path?

I suppose all of this is academic at this point...I have to move on from this science project and get my Ex back on the road to 70mph at 2K rpm's not 2800 rpm's!! I may even keep the damned thing and eat the $415 core charge...just to take the ***** apart myself and resolve this mystery.

OH, one more thing...could this be something outside the tranny?? PCM? Another sensor on or near the tranny? I'd hate to replace a tranny only to find out I've got the same P0775 error codes.

Thanks again for listening...

Michael

 

[djervin]

Michael, sorry to hear that the solenoid block did not do anything for you.... I was hoping that it would. I know that you can find re-built valve bodies on e-bay for around $130.... I have though about this route because the solenoid block did not do anything for me either and I don't know about risking the install of the servo pistons? Was the servo bore o-ring install difficult? I know that it is the least amount of money. I am trying to think outside the box here and not go off of what the codes are saying. I keep thinking of trying the valve body and seeing where that gets me. I just get sick of the trans fluid baths, I have had the trans pan off more times then I care to count. My last thought is another trans, $1,600-2,000 may not be the worst to make this headache go away, my mpg has been crap through all of this. Let me know what your thinking.

 

[LTCPipkin]

Update...

Yeah, I'm perplexed about what my real problem is with this tranny. I HAVE to have a dependable ride as I run between northern Jersey and Richmond, VA. I was leaning strongly towards buying a rebuilt from Drive Power in Georgia and having my trusted shop install it. But, my curiosity has overwhelmed that decision. And I can't chance another 1K miles before I get this thing fixed!! It take 5 days for Drive Power to rebuild, 3 days to ship and my regular shop 2 days to R&R. Then I've got $415 core charge hanging out there until I get it back to Autozone.

I remembered somewhere in what seems to be thousands of posts I've read that someone mentioned I should take my problems to a local ATRA shop. I had never heard about such a shop before, so I did a search and found only ONE such shop in my entire area on the southside of Richmond. I had a few minutes before work yesterday and stopped by briefly. I started the conversation with two stories of getting screwed by tranny shops and that he needed to convince me that:

1. he won't screw me again
2. he knows what he's talking about with regard to the known issues and fixes for the 5R55S
3. he charges me a fair price
4. since he rebuilds on site, that he opens the trans and identifies my problem and lets me take pictures of the issue so I can post here and finally end my tranny mystery!

He actually told me what was wrong with it before I had a chance to share any of my thoughts!! He bores and installs the sleeve for the servo bore problems. Adds a NEW heavy duty torque converter.

Well, he convinced me to give him a chance and agreed to my conditions above...we'll see how this budding relationship progresses. I delivered my Ex this morning and will pick it up this afternoon. He said that because he has done HUNDREDS of these transmissions, he has two already rebuilt and waiting for the next customer...me!

His technicians will begin tear-down of my tranny this afternoon and let me know when they find the problem and I'll go over and take pics.

Stay tuned...

 

[rrgone]

Michael,

PM me with your email address and I can send you some electrical schematics and diagrams for your 2005 model year Ex. There were significant changes from the earlier versions you have been looking at. Maybe you can use them later in your final solution posts. That will be a great addition here when you finally get it resolved.

Good luck!

 

[SyberTiger]

He actually told me what was wrong with it before I had a chance to share any of my thoughts!! He bores and installs the sleeve for the servo bore problems. Adds a NEW heavy duty torque converter.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that he has identified the problem as being the servo bores? However, as I recall you already implemented the Servo Bore Solution but that didn't fix your problem.

Is he replacing your tranny with one he previously rebuilt but offering to diagnose the problem with your original tranny?

 

[LTCPipkin]

Yes, he has one already rebuilt sitting on his shelf. His guys rebuild one to two of these per week to keep up with demand. That's the only way he can install a rebuilt tranny in a single day.

Yes, he agreed to diagnose my broken one so I can share (including pics) with the folks here. He agreed if I gave him mention in the write-up.

He has a theory, but we'll see what his technicians find. He said they have seen 5R55S transmissions where the servo shaft has worn the bore into an oval shape or the steel servo shaft has "rolled up the aluminum in the bore" (his phrase, not mine) so badly the only fix is drill out the bores and install the sleeve. If either condition is the case for my tranny, then the o-ring servo fix can't resolve my problem. He did say that the brass/copper flake I posted is from the OD Planetary assembly, but didn't seem terribly concerned about it. But the jury is out...we'll see tomorrow when I take pics in his rebuild room.

 

[djervin]

I am curious on the outcome of your experience with this. If everything goes well for you, post his contact info, that maybe an option for me. Thanks.

 

[LTCPipkin]

Diagnosis...finally!!

Well, my tranny troubles have concluded...for a mere $2500. I picked up my Ex with a freshly rebuilt transmission. It's shifting very nicely now. In fact, it shifts better than when I bought it with 39K miles on the odo.

He did disassemble my sick tranny so I could peer inside and see what happened. It seems I had a couple things going on.

First, the o-ring servo bore fix didn't work so well. I didn't have the necessary skill or courage to tackle the job myself, so I took it to my local mechanic. He had never done one of these before, but agreed to performing the job. After looking at the OD Servo and bore area with the tranny out, he didn't do a good job. The next couple pics show the servo shaft with a thin black band to left of the two thicker bands. That thin band is a piece of one of the thicker bands that got cut when it was inserted into the servo bore. You gotta' make sure the edge is smoothed out after you cut the bevel. I guess that's not so easy to do with the tranny still in the car.

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/photo6.jpg

Speaking of bevel, the next pic shows how poorly the OD Servo boring was performed...choppy edges and a very rough cut. Notice the nicks around the edge of the bevel.

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/photo4.jpg

Now for one of the surprising observations...the technician showed me how they used the jig to bore a whole and insert the sleeve fix for both servos. The next pic shows how off-center the bore is relative to the servo. He said that this off-center condition causes all sorts of problems and is a major contributor to the ovaling and "rolling up of the aluminum in the bore. He sees lots of servos where the shaft has cracked from the servos plate/face/disk (I forgot what he called it).

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/photo3.jpg

Even if I had solved my OD servo problem with a proper installation of the o-ring fix, it was just a matter of time before my off-center bore issue overwhelmed that fix. The longer term solution for my tranny seems to be the sleeve fix. The tech did say that this condition was not unique to my tranny case. He sees it all the time. If I evaluate my shifting over time, I really never experienced a graceful delayed shift into 2nd, so I'm not sure I even had a servo bore problem. One day, my TC unlocked and as I downshifted,I heard a clunk somewhere around 5th gear. The next couple pics show why. The technician said I had burned up the OD planetary. I have no idea what that part is or what that means to burn it up. But the pics show bent and badly scraped metal parts. Note the bent gear that goes somewhere inside the larger bent part. The owner of the shop said that when he sees a burned up OD planetary, it suggests that I had an cooling problem. I can't remember my HOT lights or bells going off, but he said that wasn't necessary to burn up the tranny. So he began to investigate my cooling system and found that my fan clutch was GONE. So, he blames the fan clutch for allowing my tranny to overheat. Got a new fan clutch installed this morning.

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/photo5.jpg
http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj497/LTCPipkin/photo1.jpg

I am glad this nightmare has come to an end. I am also glad I decided to go to a transmission specialist. He is convinced that had I bought the rebuilt tranny elsewhere and had my local mechanic install it, my heating problem would have burned up the new tranny in 1,000 miles. Thanks for your suggestions along the way. I think for the first time I might have found a transmission shop I can trust. The owner is convinced that because he uses quality rebuild kits (including the TRANSGO Shift Kit) and executes a quality rebuild, that my tranny could last 200K miles. Well, I am too skeptical to believe that can happen. I do know that I have learned a lot from this experience and will spend more time managing my cooling system and RELIGIOUSLY changing my filter and fluid every 30K miles...regardless of driving conditions. BTW, he has nothing but distain for "transmission flushing". A filter and 5 or so quarts every 30K miles is good enough.

If you're interested in taking your business to this shop in Petersburg, VA, it's called Gene's Transmission. He is the only ATRA shop near my home. The link for Gene's is below:

http://www.genestransmissionshop.com/

DISCLAIMER: The story you have just heard is my interpretation of what this transmission shop told me. Even though these explanations make sense to me, I have insufficient skills to determine if any of it is factual. So, maybe some of our smart guys here can comment.


Michael

 

[daveleeander]

Thanks for the feedback. After seeing the rolled up attempt at beveling for the servo 0'ring fix, I think I would find another local mechanic. I just did the servo fix with the car up on stands. Worked out well, but I did check the hole and bevel before inserting the pin.
Flush or change, I prefer flush every 50K with filter every second flush. My tranny is on 262k miles now and still shifting well (now that I have fixed the OD). I'll probably go F150 next just because I end up towing more and more.
I use Amsoil throughout the car.

D

 

[SyberTiger]

Now for one of the surprising observations...the technician showed me how they used the jig to bore a whole and insert the sleeve fix for both servos. The next pic shows how off-center the bore is relative to the servo. He said that this off-center condition causes all sorts of problems and is a major contributor to the ovaling and "rolling up of the aluminum in the bore.

I very much appreciate your diagnosis and feedback on your tranny issue. It's really a great service to this forum when someone takes the time to give specific details, findings, and pictures on these issues. What kind of warranty did he give you? Don't you need to have Ford or someone upgrade the firmware in the PCM?

I took your lead and went and visited a local ATRA specialist. I was quoted $1858 to have my tranny rebuilt (ONLY one year warranty) or $632 labor to install a remanufactured tranny that I pick up. I was told that a tranny swap is a 7.9 hour job. I discussed the infamous servo bore issue with the owner and mentioned to him there was a quick fix available for it. He immediately said "it probably uses o-rings" and further said "that's been tried on numerous transmissions with mixed results". The problem he said was that many times the servo piston shaft wears an "egg shaped" pattern which can be difficult for an o-ring to seal. He also mentioned the problem that you pointed out. That is, if you aren't careful that o-ring can get damaged during initial installation.

I'm convinced that based on your experience and discussion with your ATRA guy and the conversation I had with my ATRA guy that the servo bore "quick fix" is nothing more that a relatively inexpensive patch to a problem that could easily pop up again causing the owner to spend more money down the road. It's the kind of fix that I'd be very afraid of if I was buying a used vehicle and the owner didn't disclose that he did a tranny fix using this method. Clearly, some folks are going to want to do the quick fix them dump the vehicle before the tranny flips out again. I salute those who came up with the "quick fix" solution as not everyone can afford $2500 - $3000 for a tranny, however, I don't think that's the solution for me.

Just as a matter or record I got quoted for uninstalled remanufactured transmissions to be $1620 for a Moveras built and $2145 for an ETE built tranny. Labor to install the trannys seems to range from $450 to $650. These trannys have a 3 year warranty.

p.s. My tranny hasn't logged any codes in the computer even though I've had the "O/D flash message" and the "Check Transmission" message has come up. I wonder why the computer didn't log any codes????

 

[LTCPipkin]

Ditto on the taking time to share final outcomes with this forum. I get so much help from the folks here, I feel an obligation to share what I discover during this journey with my Explorer. My college background is science and I crave knowledge about how things work.

My son-in-law said to install the rebuilt tranny and sell it FAST. I told him, not gonna' happen. I prefer to drive something that I can feel/hear. The moment the tranny down-shifted just over a month ago and made that clunk noise, I KNEW something was wrong before the OD Light started flashing. I get into my wife's brand-new Tacoma and hear and feel nothing!!!

As for my warranty, the ATRA Transmission guy gay me a one year, UNLIMITED miles warranty. My initial impression of him is that he is VERY proud of his shop's work and will most likely install a freshly rebuilt one even if something happens beyond the year. He does a lot of work on these transmissions and said that he can't afford to have them coming back with problems. The Tech who rebuilt my tranny has been rebuilding transmissions for 35 years and is equally proud of his work. He took great pride walking me around the shop describing his rebuild processes and what specific fixes he incorporated into my 5R55S rebuild. The last experience I had with a transmission shop was with a clerk out front who simply went through a checklist that was designed to TAKE MY MONEY. Of course when they "went in" they found other problems that required more money and since I already signed the waiver, he had me bent over the counter before I knew what was happening. Who knows what they did with my transmission. It leaked when I got it back and started having shifting problem in less than 1000 miles!!

I agree with one of your courses of action to order a factory rebuilt and have the ATRA guy install it. My local mechanic doesn't see the installation frequency that a transmission shop sees. My ATRA guy even connected a computer and drove about the area for 30 minutes taking readings on pressures and temperatures. I have no idea what that means, but it's an indication that his techniques are thorough. It was during that test drive that he discovered some temperature issues that he joined with his experiences regarding the burned out OD planetary. I am glad he discovered the bad fan clutch before I drove it 400 miles on Saturday.

The rebuilt tranny shifted as though it was really tight for a few miles. But now that I've got about 750 miles on it, it feels brand new!!

Good luck with your 5R55S!!

Michael