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Stop your trendy patriotism

Discussion in 'Exploring everything under the sun!!' started by Hank, September 17, 2001.

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  1. Hank

    Hank Elite Explorer

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    Quoting Rick: "I'll take the trendy patriotism and make no apologies for it. "


    This is the beauty of our country. We can disagree and not make apologies for it. I just hope/wish the feeling of patriotism remains when CNN starts showing casualties during the dinner hour. Like in Vietnam, the first time War was broadcast on TV.. Remember how quick public sentiment changed during the Gulf War when the images from the road to Bazzra were broadcast...

    Quoting my family friend: Let's see how patriotic the
    "new patriots" are two years from now when the body bags are piling up and there are shortages of gasoline.

    If you are in with the flag waving and singing now please be there and stay ther when our brave military is called upon to do their duty....

    Lastly have already heard of reports of Guardsmen complaining about the possibility of being called up. Sure you take our check, play with our guns and take our two week vacation each year. Now you complain because it may be real??

    I forgot to reply to one comment I read early on in the thread. Although it is unrealistic I think that the government should not accept people signing up for the military right after an incident. The decision to serve and possibly die for your country should not be taken lightly or made on emotion. Yes serve your country but make the choice with a clear head..

    Best regards.
    hg
     
    Last edited: September 17, 2001
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  3. FMNavajo

    FMNavajo Active Member

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    Hank, Sorry I took so long with the answer but I wanted to make sure, the Coast Guard joins the Department of the Navy during war time.

    FM

    PS - if the Navy calls me back, I'll go in a heart beat, I am so ready to do anything right now, I guess that's why there is a 15 day waiting period to buy a hand gun.
     
  4. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    A few people have already e-mailed me about the grill paint. I don't have any left at the house so I can't tell you what company made it. Next time I go back to Pep Boys I'll take a look.

    Another patriotism comment.

    I don't own a flag. I never have. Does that make me un-patriotic? I certainly don't think so. The flag is a symbol, patriotism is more of an action in my eyes.

    My wife is a teacher. She earns less than probably any other professional with the same educational backround, she teaches to educate the youth of America. That in my opinion is a form of patriotism.

    I'm a Ham Radio operator, I volunteer my time to provide emergency communications and logistical communciations for the Multiple Sclorosis (sp?) Bike Ride, the Palo Verde Nuclear power plant emergency preparedness drill, Sky Harbor airport emergency preparedness drill, and other events. I also volunteer once a week at the Arizona Science Center teaching the vistors about ham radio. To me that is doing my part to be a patriot to my community and nation.

    I was lucky enough to have lived during a period in our history where I didn't have to go to war. By no means do I take that for granted. I have the greatest respect for those who fought to make it possible for me to have lived the life that I have.

    Flying a flag is a nice gesture and it's great to see the Red White and Blue flying proudly in the breeze, but that in itself doesn't make the patriot a persons actions make the patriot (IMHO).
     
  5. Hank

    Hank Elite Explorer

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    Rick, no I don't think that makes anyone un-patriotic..

    My gripe is not with those who buy a flag, come together to show support or pay respects. It is with those who are doing same thing THIS WEEK because it is the "thing to do" The same ones buying RWB clothing at Nordstroms to make a statement... These are the same ones who will start saying "I am sick of hearing about this" in two weeks... They will also be leading the protest marches when images of war show up on TV and interupt the Drew Carry rerun...

    I feel true patriotism is something that stays with you. It has to be there all the time. It is not flag flying or waving. You have to love your country even when you do not agree with it's actions.. Something that did not happen in Vietnam..


    With you HAM radio you are doing something for your country.. I don't hear you complaining about it.

    Your wife is getting screwed by the society and the system. She is in an underpaid and unrespected profession in which society keeps dumping the parental responsibilities on to.. Yet she sticks with it, probably for the personal love and rewards, obviously not the money. Definatly the actions of a true patriot...


    Too bad on the paint, let us know if you stuble across it..

    Lastly can you turn the spell checker back on?? Mine is garbage..


    Best regards.
    hg
     
  6. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    "You have to love your country even when you do not agree with
    it's actions.."

    I agree 100%





    I can't turn the spell checker back on... They took it out of the software in the later editons since the third party company that provided the spell checker started to charge for it. I liked that feature too.
     
  7. FMNavajo

    FMNavajo Active Member

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    Hank, I believe it was my statement, "Join Now", that your talking about. I joined the Navy on the verge of the Gulf War, I didn't plan it that way. I wanted to say that because if these kids do get drafted, most of them won't have a choice of what to do, they'll get put where they're needed. By joining, they have a chance to get a better job and come home when it's all said and done. I thought about joining the military for two years prior to enlisting, the Gulf War started when I was in boot camp. I ended up getting a school and then stationed on a destroyer out of Norfolk, Va. I agree everyone must think before they act. I hope the US dosen't think about this one too much before they act, just get it right the first time!

    FM
     
  8. Hank

    Hank Elite Explorer

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    Rick, no worries on the spell checker. Just seeing all my mistakes today...

    Hopefully I made it a little clearer on what I am wanking about...

    FMNavajo, no it was a comment early on, from a member named something like MMFB. I have not scrolled back yet. I think it is fair to answer all questions when throwing up such a hot topic... You are correct about job choce when joining versus draft though. I am still undecided on my opinion if they are going to draft or not. Right now I do not think so but we are very early in the game...


    Thinking and acting. You bring up a good point. I am currious where this is going to lead. This is a new challenge for the US. We have an enemy that we can not point to on a map. Something that may be very difficult for people to understand and have the patience for.

    Best regards to all.

    hg
     
    Last edited: September 17, 2001
  9. rpenner54

    rpenner54 Moderator Emeritus Moderator Emeritus

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    Now that this topic has twisted its way here... :)

    If they do pull the draft I guess I would go but with great big attitude problem. I realize that this time you are accually fighting for the country. However there is NO way this can ever be won by a war. This whole country vs. 2500-3000 men! I mean come on! These people could be in any country at any time. The only way you can fight terrorism is with intelegence. It can't be fought on the ground or in the air untill its fought in the mind. By that I mean you can't bomb any of these countries because its going to create more future terrorists. You have to FIND the people and get rid of them.

    I realize this may seem un-patriotic but I really do not think so at all! I think this is the best way to fix this. As an American I belive I have the right to say this also. I would've fought in past wars even though some of them didn't seem worth the American life that may have died for their country in another country defending that country and not ours. However this is OUR country now and if it really came down to a draft I would have to go.

    However if you draft all the 18-2? year old boyz over there you better realize how the economy over here is going to take a real dump. These people are the workforce and if you remove them who keeps the economy going? All those who currently are not doing those jobs will be forced into them. Then when its over you have the few that return home and how do they get their jobs back? Does the goverment offer cousoling for all the horors that they may/may not have seen.

    I guess I just do not see war as an answer ever. :) Sorry... :)

    BTW my Flag is still there. :) Its been moved from the tonka truck downstairs to the upstairs window. :)
     
  10. Hank

    Hank Elite Explorer

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    rpenner54, Way to stick your neck out....!!! I thought I was gutsy with my post... I'll let someone else reply on this before I jump in.....
     
  11. JulieEx

    JulieEx Active Member

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    I know of no 18-year-old CEO of any company of significance. My company hires over 1000 people and not a single one is 18 years old. Sorry to break your bubble. Any of my employees who are in the military reserve know that their job is protected.
     
  12. mmpc

    mmpc Moderator Emeritus

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    Hank, the comment about people enlisting after an event such as Tuesday's was mine. While I agree 100% that such decisions should be made after careful deliberation, the fact remains that many will enlist - just as thousands did after Pearl Harbour and the beginning of WWII. Myself, I actually find that to be quite a patriotic act, not one based on stupidity.

    I think it also shows that this generation - as has been alleged - is not just a bunch of jelly-spined whiners. Indeed, it shows that many of them are ready and willing - without being forced - to follow in their father's/grandfather's footsteps by stepping up to defend this great country; and possibly to give their lives...

    As for our action in the coming weeks, months and years, I do hope we proceed with extreme caution. Nothing would make bin Laden happier than a WWIII of "the Muslims" vs. "the West." That's what he wants! Thankfully, I believe the minds that are currently planning and will execute any actions we undertake are amongst the best this country has to offer. Dick Cheney and Colin Powell have been in a similar situation before, after all! War should never be the answer, but we also must answer for these attacks on our country or terrorists will feel like they have free reign!
     
  13. Hank

    Hank Elite Explorer

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    Whoa Chris/MMPC,

    At no point did I use the words stupidity or jelly-spined whiners... (Which by the way are the same things used to describe my generation when we were young..)

    I believe you have misconstrued my intent. Which was: One should not enter military service blindly or on emotion alone. While providing a great service to your country and showing great patriotism you are being asked to be willing to die for your country. A decision that no one, from any generation should take lighty.

    I salute those who have chosen to enlist and pray that they have made a balanced and non emotional decision..

    Yes, while many chose to enlist right after the attack on Pearl I feel that was a different decision. We knew who the enemy was, we knew where they were, we knew how to defeat them.. This is a whole different ball game... Those who rush to enlist now probably will not get the chance to serve for years if at all. WW2 we needed bodies (numbers) to defeat the enemy. WTC we need something else..

    You are dead on about WW3 that is what someone like bin Laden would want. (If it was him.. remember we still do not know who our enemy is..) Unlike Pearl..
     
  14. rpenner54

    rpenner54 Moderator Emeritus Moderator Emeritus

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    Sorry to burst your bubble but I would bet that the real people who get things done for you all are the people that are in this age bracket. Is a CEO really going to go over an un-jam a copier?!?! HELL NO! I never even said a CEO, these people are the workforce. These people are the ones to ensure that all CEO's get paid really well. I realize not many 18 year olds are that gifted if at all since most are still in high-school, college. I just know for a fact that most large companies rely heavily on the underpaid younger people to take the brunt of the companies problems (Smaller on big terms but really save a lot of money) and fix them. Think about all the help desk folks out there. Most are what, 18-30 right? Sure the 18 year old don't know much but at least he will be learning and keeping things going. Or what about when you have a problem with that copy machine. I would bet that its not going to be an older person coming to fix it. You will find the older people in sales and marketing. Thats typically your flight path in most companies. Start at the bottom work your way up and become respected. Or start in the top and have everyone hate ya. :D LOL There is a few of those out there. I accually didn't know you had a job protection law? out there if you have to go to fight.

    BTW what does your company do if you don't mind me asking? Being someone in the Tech industry its always cool to know what others in it do also.
     
  15. Joebob

    Joebob New Member

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    I would be damned ashamed to post that attitude. You insult ever man and woman who has served their country. We had punk kids of all backgrounds with similar attitudes in the Corps, they left their attitude in the piney woods of Paris Island so they wouldn't leave their blood and guts in some foreign land.
     
  16. Hank

    Hank Elite Explorer

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    Joebob, which post are your replying to?
     
  17. Michigander

    Michigander Active Member

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    WOAH!!! I am 18 years old. I work for FORD MOTOR COMPANY at the Livonia Transmission Plant as a manufacturing engineer. I MAKE THE CAR YOU DRIVE TO WORK IN. Ford just fired 10% of their salary, but you know what, I have been told that no matter what happens to Ford in the next 5-10 years, I WILL NOT LOSE MY JOB! Our company is expecting a loss for the next 2 quarters, BUT I WILL NOT LOSE MY JOB. Tell me honestly, can you say that about yourself?

    I could go on and lecture about this, but I'm getting tired of typing.
     
  18. Joebob

    Joebob New Member

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    The one by rpenner54.
     
  19. offroader_69_me

    offroader_69_me Elite Explorer Elite Explorer

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    I was telling myself as I read this not to let anyones post upset me or piss me off but this one did it, you haven't had a reason to show pride in America, where the hell do you wake up every morning, are you FREE??? Do you decide what you are going to do, when you want to? Do you not realize your rights were not just handed to you, that many many people have no rights. You think you have no reason to show pride, have you no relatives that have been in a war, I am not only PISSED OFF by your STUPID comment but deeply saddened, I hope no one in your family ever lost their life for this country, because if they did boy you better start praying that they will forgive you for forgetting agout their lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hank I agree totally!!!!!! If you are going to do it do it right or don't do it all. I have been told that for many years and I still believe that it applys to EVERYTHING!
     
  20. Hank

    Hank Elite Explorer

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    Ok before this gets ugly I call for a humor break!!

    I mean no disrespect here...


    9/11 is my birthday.. Here is how I spent it..

    Phone rings 7:00 am. (Friend from work) Hi, we are all meeting for breakfast at 9:00. By the way my dad died.. (Dad's death was expected. and we normally meet for breakfast when he is in town..) Called the other guys from the office for our traditional breakfast

    9:00 Breakfast. I get there first and grab our table for five.

    9:05. My friend and 15 of his relatives walk in. The breakfast is the family memorial/wake... The rest of the guys from my office come in shortly after..

    9:15. Cell phones all over start ringing.. News of WTC begins to come in.

    9:30. I am invited to a funeral, that day 9/11 for someone I never met...

    Day at work filled with WTC events.. No description here.


    6:00 walking out the door. Told by bosses wife that it would be nice if I went to friends house to pay respects..




    Again not being disrespectful ( and for humor only) I can never go out and celebrate my birthday. I would get shot by someone if I was caught partying on this date.


    So my birthday celebration consisted of:

    A wake,
    Terrorist attack
    Funeral.


    (Again this was a humor break only...)


    Best regards.
    hg
     
  21. mmpc

    mmpc Moderator Emeritus

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    Hank, my apologies I wasn't more specific. I was not attributing this to you. Rather, that's the picture (or similar) of so-called "Gen-X'ers" that has been painted numerous times over the years by some in the media.

    I think we'll all learn it's not true in the near future...
     

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