T3 T4 Hybrid Turbo OHV

Well I got tired of the 4.0 ohv not having any power on the highway climbing the hills on the 62 and having no low end in 4x4 high offroad, especially now that I have a pickup with a 5.7 v8 in it..

I've been lurking for some time since I've been kinda busy with work but, I got my hands on a Turbonetics T3 T4 hybrid so it's project time. It has the .48ar T3 turbine and a f1-57 trim T4 compressor. I expect this thing will spool FAST but I am not making any claims to being too familiar with forced induction..worst case scenario is there's a problem I can get a higher trim turbine.

I plan on having it live just behind and to the right of the alternator after doing test fitting. Its snug but should work nice to draw through my snorkel set up and for routing the exhaust.

Now, I have a concern about drawing through the stock airbox with a K&N drop in.. will this be too much suction and cause oil to get past the center housing seals?

If I hit full boost before highway cruising speed will that boost still be effective once in the higher RPM's? ie: is 7lb boost (where I plan to limit it at) at say, 1500 rpm still 7lb boost at 3k rpm?

Anyway, thanks in advance for the guru advice and input. I'll try to post through the project and get some pics up since everyone likes pics.

'merica

 

[Caejxr]

Parts and Info for my Turbocharged 4.0

This list is the basic parts (major items) I used to get a turbocharged 4.0 OHV I hoped this could help consolidate information. This setup has resulted in great drivability allowing me to keep. Up with modern traffic. Boost comes on fast if you want to get on the go pedal but it also allows you to cruise out of boost at around stoich or slightly leaner programmed/tuned appropriately to do so. This set up would allow you to run 7 pounds on a daily driver, to this point in time, safely and reliably and I can pass obd2 emissions testing.

Smaller items such as vac lines, silicon fittings, lengths and bends of piping flanges etc are more application specific and dependent on your choice of location for the turbo and style of turbo housings.

OIL
Oil cooled turbos heat up your oil
-oil cooler
-oil cooler lines
-oil cooler filter sandwich
-oil press sender to turbo oil line
-oil drain line from turbo to pan
-oil drain line bung


TURBO
The key to the systems functionality turbine and impeller trims as well as casing size has a huge effect on the spool time, and amount of air moved/boost provided this is what I recommend for a good versatility and I use mine as a daily driver.

-T3 .48ar turbine with a T4 .57 trim impeller
Mine is from turbonetics.
If a larger turbine casing is used it will cause lag until upper RPM, same with a higher trim turbine.
If a Larger impeller is used with the same size turbine, it may put you into boost much sooner as it will be moving a larger volume of air but it also has the ability to boost to a higher level.

On the 4.0 the T4 impeller is capable of pushing more boost than you would want to put through it as is demonstrated by the flow chart earlier in this thread.


EXHAUST
This can be done by yourself if you can fabricate or your local exhaust shop again, I will cover the major end items not the pipe its self.
I had a y collector welded into my Oem Y under the oil pan and routed it into the turbo inlet above the pass. Side frame rail, there's enough room, even with AC.

-38mm wastegate (largest that is needed but larger such as 44mm can be used for a negligibly quieter sound if dumped to atmosphere). Mine holds steady at 7lbs with no problems.

-2.5" exhaust minimum, 3" is about the limit of size to go to unless you really build the internals to get more power, you'll loose a touch of bottom end but spool will come on a few hundred rpm sooner and allow for higher boost. I want to plumb my wastegate into my exhaust cat back and upgrade to 3", dumped is LOUD.

INTAKE
You can use an intake 2.5 to 3.5 inches in diameter successfully. I do not recommend going over 3 for tuning reasons and 2.5" is roughly the same diameter as the stock throttle body. My stock cylindrical air box is connected to the turbo.

-50mm Blow off valve of your choice, venting to atmosphere is easier than recirc and you get the traditional blowoff sound
-Intercooler, at least 24" wide, 12" tall and 2" deep, larger is better, to a point. I still see 102+IAT's on 80 degree days but my mounting location is bad.
-BA5000 MAF (Slot MAF from 2005+ mustangs)
-Slot MAF adapter pipe
-Ford slot MAF wiring pigtail


FUEL
-Walboro 190 LPH in tank pump or larger
-36lb injectors (minimum)
-New Oem O2 sensors (to get accurate catalogs and tunes)

GAUGES
-Boost Vac gauge - pick one, T it into a Vac line coming off of the manifold, a must to make sure you know what your pressures are doing
-Wide band you'll also need an O2 and wide band reader that allows you to data log to get the appropriate AFRs

ECM
Get your car tuned by a reputable pro or buy the software to DIY. It costs about the same but it HAS to be done.
Either way a Chip Or Handheld will be purchased to program the ECM
I tuned my own but it saved me time and money since I'll make future mods and it's a hobby. The hand held is required for remote tuning from a pro if one isn't near you.

OTHER CONSIDERATIONS or OPTIONS

Many Misc parts to complete the build are needed and not addressed
Electric fan for improved cooling
Aluminum radiator
CAI
It can be done with a fojrding kit/snokel (my truck)
Fuel pressure regulator
Cooler spark plugs
Oil can be pumped from a sump tank with an aux pump back to the valve cover to drain the turbo oil as an alternative to gravity drain.
42lb injectors
Total cost for a build with new parts can be over 3k, a budget build could likely be done for 1k or so if you're thrifty.

 

[Rick]

Great info. Would you want to copy that into a new thread as a "How to" thread?

 

[Caejxr]

Great info. Would you want to copy that into a new thread as a "How to" thread?

Rick, I can certainly do so, I'm not sure it's thought out well enough to guide someone through as a how to though. Posted the how to under need for speed," turbo a 4.0; a basic synopsis" hopefully that info consolidated keeps someone from having to research too much.

 

[malohnes]

Thanks for this collected info!! Great build thread and treasure trove of info!!!

I love your rig...its similar to mine except yours is 2nd gen and mine isn't.
Tuning will be the biggest hurdle I'll face being OBD1. But reading this thread and your experiences encourages me to press on and just do it. I intend to build a motor rather than boost a stock mileage one though!!

 

[Caejxr]

Thanks for this collected info!! Great build thread and treasure trove of info!!!

I love your rig...its similar to mine except yours is 2nd gen and mine isn't.
Tuning will be the biggest hurdle I'll face being OBD1. But reading this thread and your experiences encourages me to press on and just do it. I intend to build a motor rather than boost a stock mileage one though!!

Thanks man, good luck to you on your build. If I had thought it through more I would have built a separate engine on a stand first but my heads were re-done only two years ago now. How deep are you planning on your build; forged Lowers, cam, the works or just rebuilding a stock motor?

 

[malohnes]

Thanks, I'll need it!

I plan to use Morana stroker kit, which uses forged parts, along with the roller kit he has and Stage 2 heads on a full rebuild. Cam...I'm debating with the 1.7 roller/rocker kit but leaning towards 422.

Doing most of my research on tuning, currently. My truck is a heavy camper/light trail driver/DD so race or shine is not a priority, but I do enjoy performance and given I live in a very mountainous area, with a few long steep grades that I regular drive on, the extra oomph is nice. Reliable power is key for my needs.

 

[Caejxr]

You'll definately have the power you're wanting. That sounds like a good build. If I could do it again and had all the money I could throw at it at I'd build first like I said but would get fiberglass fender flares to make it a bit roomier in the engine bay and locate the turbo a touch higher and slightly more outside the frame rail. I'd also have gone with 2" or 2.25" exhaust on the entire inlet side of the exhaust. I think I lost some off the line 1st gear grunt when fully loaded with camping gear having the 2.5" after the y collector. I checked out my dads diesel when I was home on vacation and everything heads to turbo is like 2" then goes to 3.5" after the turbine. There's been a few times I've wanted spool sooner and short of applying a turbo and exhaust killing antilag, the exhaust size would be my only change. Which of course would be at the expense of seeing more boost more often during highway driving. BTW the how to I posted separate from this thread has a little more info in it as I reposted it I put more thought into it.

 

[malohnes]

Thanks for the support!

Have you considered water meth injection? On my NA application its worked well. My truck seems to run much smoother and better grunt on long uphill grades.

I have headers all ready, so they will have to do. I think they will work great. Packaging will be tricky but I can make it work with out A/C hardware in the way. I'm planning to inverting them and and top mount the turbo.

I'll move my battery elsewhere to make it fit. Your idea for top mount intercooler is all ready in my sketches, but Im hoping W/M will remove the need for it. Living in alaska means I don't deal with high temps much.

 

[Caejxr]

I only briefly thought about the water meth injection, thought a little longer on temporarily attaching a misting sprayer the the intercooler to help it out since I won't be seeing 110+ deg F ambient once I leave the desert. I've kinda leaned away from top mounting my intercooler just due to space and heat soak.

How do you plan to link the headers together and route the exhaust?


Also, for the topic of my thread, for my engine build I want to do. comp cams still hasn't produced the 422-8 grind due to cores that haven't showed up. They don't seem to know when their going to get them in either. So the wait continues.

 

[malohnes]

I'm still working on the routing of exhuast, but looking to mount in the passenger side with driverside exhaust crossing over in front of TB. Moving the battery out of the engine compartment gain some room. Wrapping the headers will help with heat management. My exhaust set up is 2.5 all ready so I think I'll be fine with flow, after thinking more acutely about your suggestions. Mounting the turbo as close to the intake and exhaust should further reduce lag and give room for BO and wastegate if I can make full use of battery being moved..

More research is needed on the decision to go sans intercooler and just run W/M...im strongly leaning towards no intercooler.

You might contact Morana, he can do custom grinds and i'm sure the requirements won't
be much different than the 422 cam when all said and done. Not sure on the turn around time, but my gut tells me it may work out in your favor if Tom isn't too backed up with orders.

 

[Caejxr]

@malohnes, if you do relocate the battery you'll gain a pretty good amount of room on that side. Routing the exhaust that way also makes room for the wastegate and BOV not to mention like you said It's a short run turbo, to MAF to wastegate that way if you skip the intercooler. I know in Alaska it doesn't get hot enough in the summer so if you keep the boost low you should be just fine with no intercooler. Those temps won't climb enough to cause detonation if your tune is ok and you keep the exhaust far enough away from the intake. I think the latter will be your biggest challenge for temperatures and the exhaust/intake routing. I'm unsure of the effect if any the slight difference in back pressures between different cylinder banks I would think that routing would create. But, other members have similar setups to what you're thinking that I think are working fine for them.

I got an email back from summit today, they think it will ship around the 20th now. I e-mailed comp cams directly and they got their blanks in and said to expect a 15 day turn around after they get through their back orders. Since I have one of those back orders I am hopeful it will ship sooner.

 

[malohnes]

Yeah, There is a fair bit of room when you don't have A/C or the battery in the way.

I think skipping intercooler is smarter for my application and instead will upgrade my W/meth system. Makes more sense and I since I spend more driving time in the winter months than the summer heat isn't a problem.

From general turbo info I have been gathering, you are correct in the pressure difference between banks with an offset install I'm looking at.

Good to hear! It sucks having to wait a long time for such items.

 

[Caejxr]

Well, on a side note I got my AC working again...for now...I'll probably have to thread tape the trigger sensors threads but between that and the leaking valve stem it had I think I found where the leak has been judging by all the oil and dye there was. Had to jumper the sensor harness to get the pump running but after that it was easy. But it was definitely empty, 2 rather large cans of 134 later I have cool AC again.
Tomorrow I'll probably see how the temps do running with AC and the turbo for the first time.

 

[Caejxr]

Temps with the AC stayed in the normal range but maybe 20 deg higher and another issue presented its self. It's been in the low hundreds and my tune pulls a ton of timing if I try to accelerate moderately in this heat. It's safe for avoiding detonation but it's so much that it actually stops the truck from accelerating. The other option, a safer option beside the tune is the intercooler. A better location would fix my problem, cooling the air better to keep the MAF from reading such high intake temps.

 

[malohnes]

With hot summer temps, working AC is very sweet! Glad you got it working!!

That seems to be one of the biggest challenges to intercoolers, location, and its one of the main reasons why i want to go without one. W/M sounds like a very appropriate solution here...increase octane which should pull timing back and cool the air. In my non turbo engine as it is right now, when it works hard pulling a grade at cruising speeds cycling the W/M system on and off makes a very noticeable difference.

 

[Caejxr]

@malohnes I've been thinking on it and I'm not certain the W/M is a good fit for my application (literally fit) do you have pictures of yours?

I've also been thinking about setting up an electric fan on the intercooler with a thermostat on the cold side that I can use to force the air through it since my "scoop" isn't as effective as I'd like.

 

[Dono]

It sounds like your in boost quite a bit with that turbo. I was running w/m on my m90 with the 4.0ohv and I was always running my reservoir (windshield washer tank) dry. I guess if you can find a boost level to start spraying that wont have you always running out you would be good.

You have done awesome work here. Very minor issues.

 

[Caejxr]

Hey @Dono, That's definitely another concern besides space I have with the W/m. The way my turbo responds I think I'd see similar results and I don't want to be concerned with filling the tank all the time.

The turbo under light acceleration will spool but stay out of boost. I'll see 0-10 hg usually on light accel through 5th gear. I can cruise with low load, dependent on 3rd, 4th or 5th gear, speed, and other load variables anywhere from 0 to 20+hg but boost is still right there if I accelerate and definately if I downshift to accelerate. I will see boost on most hills or if there is a strong headwind on the highway. I've noticed if the latter is the case, in 5th I'll be anywhere from 1 to 3lb unless I put it in 4th which would drop it down to 0-5 hg for cruise.

Not to be captain obvious for those of you who are familiar but, I should point out that load on a NA engine is always above 100% in boost. So specifically speed, rpm, vehicle weight, hills, throttle position, fueling, etc. are some factors that lead to increase load on an engine. Right now with the turbo my cruise is something like 70 percent load 0lb to my max of 7lb boost on accel is like 100-113% load per some of my data logs. If I am not mistaken this engine NA on a stock tune doesn't really go above 80% guestimating by the base files I have in SCT.

 

[Caejxr]

Can anyone speak to the difference in cooling by percent or degrees F for a 5.0 radiator in a 4.0 v the stock 4.0 ohv radiator?

 

[boominXplorer]

A 4.0 and 5.0 radiator are the same other than the mounting tabs. Both units can be bought in a 1" and 2" core. I am pretty sure the ohv only came with a 1" core but it could of been previously updated. If you are looking to buy a 2" one you might have to look it up as a 4.0 sohc. Both v6's share the same mounts for the rad.

The difference with the 5.0 rad is it mounts .75" closer to the core support and the condenser actually attaches to the rad (condenser doesn't have its own mount like the v6s)