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The Black Hole

Discussion in 'Elite Explorer Registry' started by gmanpaint, April 3, 2009.

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    1. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Thanks Don, that's exactly what I was hoping to hear.
       
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    3. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      Work your way from the fuse(s).

      They are the easiest to get to... Check fuse 26 in the I/P fuse block for 12 volts. That circuit is HOT IN RUN

      Check to make sure the fuse isn't blown

      If you have 12 volts there.
      Remove the fuse.
      probe each side of the fuse.
      One terminal with have 12V, that's your input (from the power distribution box).

      Check the other terminal on that fuse. It shouldn't have any voltage. That's your output (to the OD switch)

      If you have 12 volts there, and the fuse is not blown, the open/high resistance in the circuit is between the I/p fuse box and the o/d connector.

      IF you do NOT have 12 volts at the fuse, then you have an open/high resistance in the circuit between the power distribution box and the I/P fuse box.

      Also, if you don't have 12 volts at the fuse, you can supply 12 volts at the fuse and check operation of the o/d switch. You shouldn't have to have to truck running to check the o/d off lamp illuminating.

      The ignition just needs to be in the run position.
       
    4. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      The same diagnostic procedures will apply to fuse 27.

      I will check all data and see what each fuse supplied power to for both vehicles.
       
    5. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      Ok here is the circuit description for 1995 and 1998..

      1998:
      78249724.gif

      1995:
      56535613.gif

      You are looking for the "Transmission Control Switch"

      If you look at the other components that are powered by that fuse, if those components are working correctly then there is a good chance that all your circuits to that fuse, and to their components is working correctly and the circuit is intact.

      BUUUUT that is NOT always the case, especially because there seems to be a splice in the circuit to the fuse. I have seen splice packs work correctly on all but one componant because of corrosion
       
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    6. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Well, I appreciate all that Kurt, but I still need to have a complete circuit from switch to fuse, to PCM. I think all I can do at the fuse block is see if the circuit from fuse to switch to dash light is good.

      Once I find & study both the 95 & 98 pinout diagrams for the bulkhead harness blocks, I can compare, and inspect. I have a feeling the cabin side harness was not changed to meet the engine side, and there just isn't a connecting circuit from PCM to fuse block..

      I will check the rear defroster to see if it works. I can't see the reverse lamps myself, and the 4w bulb was removed. This is assuming of course, they didn't change the dash harness, only re-pinned a few things, and spliced into it. Which it is looking like this more & more, with each problem that arises.

      Maybe that shop will get tired of hearing about this from their Mole, and actually offer some helpful information.




      Yeah right!
       
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    7. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      That is true... That might explain the burnt up wires at the bulkhead connector.

      A lot of times pin locations will shift from one year to another (like fuse 26 and 27, between 1995 and 1998)

      If the yahoos just plugged in the bulkhead connector (1995 on the i/p side, and 1998 on the engine side) and didnt realize those wires were now ground circuits (where they were 5v/12v circuits before... ) youre just asking for problems.
       
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    8. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      I had a GM instructor at one of my electrical classes years ago, put a bug in a system, i told him there was a short to voltage on this circuit i was diagnosing...
      he said "i guarantee thats not a short to voltage"
      I said "well you better check again because i guarantee that has battery voltage"

      and he did... and there was 12v to it.

      The "bug" he was supposed to put in, was an open wire in the circuit; he was just supposed to un-pin a connector and leave it out. Well he just plugged in the pin into the open spot next to it... the module had 12 volts at that pin, sending 12v through the circiut lmfao.
       
    9. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      The o/d switch and the o/d off lamp are not connected... the PCM turns the o/d off lamp on once it sees 12v from the switch.

      You will save yourself a lot of time possibly by checking for 12v at those fuses first. once you figure out whether you have 12v or not.... then you crawl under the dash and figure out why you dont have power there.
       
    10. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Semantics my good sir, just semantics. All roads lead to Rome.
       
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    11. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      I would rather take a non-stop flight directly to rome vs driving through Cape Horn :p
       
    12. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      For the first time in about 8 years (manual trans swap), this light is now working again.

      OD light on.jpg

      To celebrate, I bought a Belgium rotisserie waffle maker, and some ice cream. :bounce::bounce::bounce:


      One less thing on the list to repair hopefully. Took it for a 3 mile jaunt on the HWY, and the OD switch and converter works as should. I didn't re-pin the harness, just removed the switch harness, and followed the line to the bulkhead, and freed it up from the harness. Replaced the fuse, plugged the switch back up, and gave it a try. Fired it up, hit the switch, & Bam, the light came on. Hopefully whatever caused the short in the circuit, is fixed now, well..., not really fixed, but not grounding for now.

      I had gone thru the fuse box months ago, and replaced 3 blown fuses I found. I went thru it again today, and found 3 blown again. I do not know what is causing this yet, so this might be a premature celebration, but crossing fingers, this OD is debacle is put to rest.

      BTW Kurt, the fire extinguisher was not needed on the test drive. It is however staying up front just in case. :shifty:
       
      Last edited: December 7, 2018 at 3:38 PM
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    13. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Is that the trans bulk head connector on the firewall that heads down to the transmission, or a connector harness at the steering wheel?
      I'm curious. And, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

      Sorry about the fuses blowing. One less issue though. Keep going.
       
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    14. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      We tested the switch itself after unplugging it under the dash (column area), and found it to be good. Then went to check the other side of that harness. That's when we found the burnt wires, and just stopped at that point, so we never checked the other side.

      I thought of that today, and got under the dash, and just followed that other side as best I could towards the firewall. I moved the burned wires at the firewall away from the other wires, and then went up the harness towards the fuse box. I moved (wiggled) everything I could, including the bulk head cover, and gently pulled wires apart in hopes to find a break/burn, etc.. in something. I honestly don't know what I did to make the fuse not blow again, but whatever it was, might show it's ugly head again, or it might not. Who knows at this point.
       
    15. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    16. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Hmm, that sounds interesting. What is it, how's it work, what's it cost, and where do they come from?
       
    17. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I can't even imagine changing that harness out.
      I can't even imagine trying to splice out the burnt stuff one wire at a time upside down under the dash and doing a nice job.

      There's no clean and easy way out of this one. Lets hope the problem wire stays away from the ground it was touching.
       
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    18. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      LOL! Of all the things to be quoted for, it's food.

      It's one of these Don. Light comes on when it's ready to flip over, and another light comes on when it's done. They are cheap at Wally world, like $20 is all.

      waffle maker.jpg


      and yes, I know you was goofing around too. lol


      Dono, thanks for the support buddy!! I hope it stays away long enough to get it to Kurts shop for a real fix.
       
      Last edited: December 7, 2018 at 4:58 PM
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    19. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      Keep a note on what fuses blew, i wonder if they are the same ones that you replaced before??
       
    20. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      Well its like being given a fish, or taught to fish...

      You could go out for Belgium waffles to celebrate.. or you can go buy a waffle maker, and celebrate all the time.
       
    21. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      True, didn't think of it that way. :)

      As far as the fuses go, I wish I wrote down the fuse #'s way back when I changed them out. Since I didn't even have a 98 manual or bother to research online for one, at that time, I had no idea what fuse worked what circuit. Still don't for half of them. lol I honestly do not know what was swapped, or kept from the 95 to 98 OS. Either the fuse box was re-pinned, bulk connectors re-pinned, or the fuse box was swapped for the 98 box so that didn't have to be re-pinned. Ugh.... brain hurts thinking of any number of combo's done/not done to it.

      So far, the mechanical work seems to be done right, and in good working order. Props to them for this part at least. Some issues are going to happen, and is to be expected. The only mechanical hiccups was the leaking coolant at radiator, some sketchy exhaust work done, the atlas shifters needing re-done, a brake issue, and the cam syncro not aligned properly. Everything else was great, and now with those issues mostly fixed, it really runs well, and sounds bad ass.

      Electrical work as a whole is a completely different ballgame tho. Which sucks for me, as I know 100 times more about mechanical, than electrical. I hate having to guess, and even more so with limited understandings/knowledge. That's why it was farmed out to begin with. Guess that's why I am so sore over this. Sorry to come off grumpy now & then, I'm just frustrated beyond belief. :(
       
      Last edited: December 8, 2018 at 12:19 PM
    22. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I'd be grumpy also. If the shop couldn't do a quality job of it, they shouldn't have taken the job on.

      The electrical is the most tedious part. We all agree its time consuming, and hard to make a dollar on. Its still no excuse for saying you will do something, and then doing a shit job while your charging someone cash for it.

      That has bad reputation written all over it.
       
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    23. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      X2 on that @Dono

      I think the biggest hurdle to figure out, is what components and electrical is from 95 and what is from 98.

      That's where proper documention should have been done and provided to the customer.
       
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    24. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Ditto. This is reminding me that I have to do more for documenting my modifications. I didn't do anything but notes for my 99, but that truck is mostly OEM parts and wiring. For my 98 Limited, that may have a few things to document, but my 92 Mark VII will be a radically unique wiring harness. I'll have to make lots of detailed notes for that. It will be a combination of wiring, an entire 2002 Mustang harness set, a 98ish Explorer engine harness, hopefully an Explorer GEM module for the power monitoring circuits etc, a 97 Town Car memory seat/mirror module etc. It is great when you finish something, but the doing is a whole different thing. Wiring is tough, and has to be planned well, and slowly done right.
       
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    25. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Back in 5 minutes Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Wish I had overcome my insecurities with electrical work long ago, and learned all I could. I envy those of you that are confident with it.

      Anything I know now, has only been because I have been forced to learn.

      Kind of like my trade skills learned over a few decades. Not everybody feels comfortable doing it, and is why I could feed the family.

      Being that all of this, just started as a hobby and has progressed to a way of life now, I need to learn more, to become self sufficient. That's how everything in life has been for me, no reason to stop now. Lol
       
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    26. KurtECV

      KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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      I never wanted to get good at wiring, especially diagnostics. GM has such a problem with "terminal fretting"(microscopic corrosion on terminals that causes high resistance) ever since they switched from gold plated terminals due to the cost of gold.

      I was just thrown into it and forced to learn it for work.
       
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