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The Black Hole

Discussion in 'Elite Explorer Registry' started by gmanpaint, April 3, 2009.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. Turdle

    Turdle Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I don't know if you looked on rockauto yet to compare images, but I just did. It looks like for 95 it is just a 2 wire plug unit, for 98 it is a multi wire connector, and just for giggles I checked rockauto's parts list for 2000 mountaineer, and it appears to be switched back to the earlier 95- 2 wire design with a harness included.

    However, I just checked my 2000 and it has one switch with a 5 wire connector like what is listed for 98, so the rockauto part listing for 2000 mounty is not accurate IMO. From Memory though on our older 98 it should be the 5 wire harness on one plastic switch.
    The BOO switch provides input for brake lights, cruise control , and the torque converter-transmission, plus the shifter lock.


    Hope this helps.
     
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  3. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Thanks for that Jon. (where ya been?)

    So there is only one switch not two. Kind of what I was hoping to hear. Didn't make sense to me to have two switches, and the extra wires just means it is both the BOO & BPP in one.

    So maybe that splice they added when they swapped that harness/switch is for a diff circuit, that the 95's dash harness didn't have? Ugh, my head hurts.

    I will get under there, and try to trace that spliced wire and see where it goes. I imagine to the fuse box, just need to see if it running to the fuse that blows instantly when depressing the pedal.
     
  4. Turdle

    Turdle Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    thoughts-no particular order just throwing this out

    no high mount light and brake pedal blowing fuse might be connected?

    you might pull the brake light bulbs then see if the fuse still blows.

    could be a short circuit to ground in the shift lever lock circuit.

    you might also unplug the brake pressure switch and press pedal to see if the fuse still blows.

    disconnecting the horn fuse should disable the cruise control circuit, do this and see if fuse blows
     
  5. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Yes please throw out anything that runs thru your head!! You might think of something not already looked at yet!

    The fuse that is blowing works the high stop, and the tow stop, which neither work due to the fuse blowing on pedal press. So yeah, connected in that sense.

    The lower brake lights work with that blown fuse, as they are on a diff fuse.

    Knowing the fuse blows when the pedal is depressed and removing the switch wont tell me anything diff, as there is no longer any circuit being used, BUT, what if I unpin the wire that is spliced, then try it, that would indeed tell me that suspect wire is def the cause of the short.I do not see anything being pinched above/around the pedal itself.

    Process of elimination is what this is all about right? :)
     
  6. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Yes, try to remove anything connected to the circuit and see what happens. If there is something connected/added, start with those.

    Both of my 98's and the 99 have the single brake switch like Jon described.
     
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  7. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    This post is to keep track of what I did and know so far about this switch as it sits currently

    Put a new fuse in #13.
    I removed the horn fuse, pressed the horn, and didn't blow the #13 fuse. Put the fuse back.

    The brake switch has 5 wires.... Solid Brown-Solid LG-LG/R-Solid Black-R/LG

    Pulled the brake switch, that had the scotch lock on the solid LG wire, and no other wire attached to it. Removed the tape up to the plastic push mount, and found no loose wire. I tested it with a light from the connector pin, and it has power. Taped it up.

    Tested the rest of the pins, and found power on the solid Brown wire.

    OK, so the switch has hot at all times to the solid Brown & LG wires only.

    Here is what I have found digging thru diagrams....

    Power at all times should be to the Brown & the LG/R wires. When pedal is pressed, circuit is made from LG/R to LG at the switch
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    And this is the confusing part of the post...

    Looking at the diagrams posted a page back, the Brown & LG/R wire are for the BOO/BPP, with the brown wire using fuse #9 with 7.5a. That fuse is good.

    The Brake pressure switch (which I assume is also this same switch) also uses the LG/R wire but this wire uses the 20a fuse #13, which is the one blowing at the slightest touch of the pedal.

    The solid LG wire is for the high stop, and shares fuse 13 with the LG/R wire

    What I don't understand is solid LG & LG/R here. I know the Brown is hot at all times, but the LG/R is not when tested, but according to the diagrams, it should be hot at all times.

    Does anybody think that the solid LG & LG/R wires are just in the wrong locations on the connector? If I was to swap them, what dangers could occur from doing this? Fry the ECM, fire, etc....

    In order on my switch:
    BK-R/LG-BR-LG-LG/R

    Found the BPP pin out diagram, looks like they are in the right location at the switch. Must be wrong at the other end.

    98 BPP connector.gif



    Can I unbolt the fuse panel on the dash, and pull outward to see behind it? Is there enough harness slack to pull it out enough, to work on it?
     
    Last edited: December 11, 2018
  8. Turdle

    Turdle Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Brake pressure switch is the one on the master cylinder. Looks like a sending unit.
    There should be a small auxiliary harness with a fuse in line attached to it's harness under the hood, which is the brake pressure switch safety recall. dealer puts a fuse in line with the wiring of the brake pressure switch ( on the master cylinder)

    The recall is because the brake fluid can cause a wiring short which causes the truck to catch fire. true story. It's circuit is hot at all times.
     
  9. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Gotcha. Ok, that recall was done already at the dealer when it was in for some work. I forgot all about that, and never would have put that together with this current stuff at the pedal. I thought that had to do with the cruise control shut off.
     
  10. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    No Brake Switch Circuit Diagram in this one.. But everything else that you need is in this one diagram
    brake lamp 98.gif
     
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  11. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Thank you Kurt. I was having a hard time finding that diagram. That's a great resource right there.

    So now I think I know, that the problem is with the crossed wires (LG & LG/R), I can start digging into it.

    Plan is to yank the dr seat, the dr kick panel, the dr sill cover, and find that DG wire to the high mount light. That wire goes to the LG wire from the switch.

    Then the LG/R wire from the switch, goes to fuse 13 at the block, where I am very confident I will find the LG wire at.

    If I am right after all this digging the last couple of days, all this means is the wires was installed wrong with the swap, and not a broken bare wire grounding on something somewhere. What a PITA to figure out (for this ignorant fool). Now to get my hands dirty(er). Nice 50* day tomorrow, and the nasty front will be here by days end. Hopefully I can get to it, and remove another thing from the repair list!
     
  12. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Sorry for another lame ass post, but I need to keep track of things as they happen.

    Yanked the seat, and got my head under the dash for a look see. Shoulders are wider than the opening, so I could only get so far, and one hand at a time up in there. I couldn't do much, but look.

    Removed the 3 bolts on the fuse box, and was able to gently pull it out a little. I found a cut wire with bare wire exposed, a jumper wire, and a funky spliced wire with 1" of two speaker wires at the end of a single speaker wire, into one side of a fuse, then to a factory wire leading into the bulky bundle harness. No idea what those are all about.

    I think I was looking at the back of fuse 13 (blowing fuse from brake pedal action), and see the LG/R wires going to it & away from it. I really believed I would find the solid LG wire there, but nope. I lose the LG wire from the brake switch going into the big bundle harness, and do not see it at the fuse box anywhere. So this means it is spliced somewhere inside that bundle. I can't reach it to work on, w/o removing the entire dash harness. :angryfire::angryfire::angryfire: I am literally sick to my stomach right now.

    I do not want to pull the dash harness. There has to be a work around for this. All I can think of is running new wires for each, cutting & leaving the old ones where ever they lie.

    I know the LG brake switch wire is supposed to connect to the DG wire somewhere, for the 3rd brake light. I can just run a new wire from the switch, and find the DG wire, and tie into it.

    I know that the LG/R switch wire is supposed to run to fuse 13. I can run a new wire to it, I just need to make sure it goes to the proper side of the fuse.
    Getting to the backside of the fuse box, to work on, will be a headache for sure. I think this is going to be my best solution here. Got some thinking to do here. :banghead:

    Back of fuse box

    Back of fuse IP box.jpg

    The cut wire loose & exposed

    cut green purple tracer at fuse box.jpg

    Remember the burned wires found hooked up to those thicker red wires? I traced them to the ends. They ran back to the center of the console, and are cut and exposed. Why? Who the Fawk knows.

    Running down towards the center console

    Red wires behind center dash.jpg

    And how they are terminated :eek:

    red wires cut ends.jpg


    This confirms that the wires was burnt up before it was returned to me. I don't even care to know what the reason is for this right now, because it will just be some lame ass excuse, that doesn't matter anymore. It's just perplexing.
     
    Last edited: December 13, 2018
  13. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    "Find S212"...... HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :crazy:

    Recap:
    It's a human error, not a mechanical malfunction. The wrong wire has power on the brake switch .

    I have the proper test light, we went over this already.
     
  14. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    Did you check continuity from fuse 13 to Pin 5?

    One side should have power, the other should have less than 2 ohms from the fuse terminal to Pin 5 at the brake switch. I suspect it does not.

    you can also check for continuity from the speed control (cruise control?) to fuse 13 and see if that circuit is good.

    Usually what i do when i am diagnosing a circuit problem, is print the diagram, and use a highlighter and highlight the circuits that are good, so you can keep track of what circuits have already been tested.

    If you havent already guessed, my reading comp isnt that great so::pics: for me hahahahaha
     
  15. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Sorry if you missed it, but there is power at fuse 13 on one side, and nothing at pin 5 at the switch.

    I didn't check the sensor at the master, just for power at the switch, when testing for power on all 5 pins.

    As far as finding the splice for LG to DG, I'm hoping it is not at the aux box #2, behind the cargo panel. I'm sure it is tho, because that's the most inconvenient place.I guess I could splice into it closer up to the front once I find it.

    Why can't I just have normal problems like everybody else? When the light goes bad, everybody else just replaces it or Mods it with an LED, but Nooooooo, not me, not this rig. It has to be torn apart, take up 3 pages of posts, days of work, and cause me health issues. lol

    Bad weather is moving in, and old man winter is settling in. I put everything back together, in case it needs moved or used.

    This will have to wait for nicer weather as I don't wrench or wire in 10* weather unless it's an emergency.
     
    Last edited: December 13, 2018
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  16. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    Taken from ALLDATA: "S212 Near T/O to DLC"

    So it is under the dash..

    That will be useful when diagnosing the inop high mount brake light

    Edit: That is for 1998 Explorer
     
  17. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Neit Spreken Ze Doich.

    What is T/O and what is DLC for $1000 Alex?
     
  18. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    Der DLC ist der Plug unter dem Bindestrich, in den Sie Ihren Scanner einstecken.

    Die T / O ist ein Drahtabschnitt, der von einem Kabelbaum abzweigt
     
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  19. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    The DLC is the plug under the dash that you plug your scanner into.

    The T/O is a section of wire that branches off of a wiring harness
     
  20. KurtECV

    KurtECV Surrender The Booty Elite Explorer

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    obwohl ich ein wenig deutsch kenne, bin ich nicht so gut, also ist google mein freund
     
  21. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    It's now official. This rig & this thread is trashed.

    thread off track meme.jpg
     
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