Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[willzilla]

That looks pretty slick! For mine, when it was turbo, they had tapped into the side of the oil fill tube and used that for the return.

A quick picture of how it is/was tapped before I blocked it returning back NA:

 

[Dono]

Hmm...thanks for chiming in guys.
My concern with tapping the oil pan is shavings falling in to the inside of the pan. The only real way to get that pan off is to lift the motor.

 

[FIND]

Honestly, I am of the opinion that you are going to want the return to be in your pan, that way you aren't lifting very much, and that way you keep oil pressure low on your turbo. The seals on turbos aren't good for much pressure, and you'll end up with lots of blow-by if you aren't careful. Otherwise, you may consider a pump on the return side of the turbo.

Even with turbos mounted in your engine compartment, you generally want the return below the turbo going straight into the pan, to reduce backpressure on the oil return.

I mean, it might be fine. Your remote-mount setup won't get as hot as with a traditional turbo setup, so, perhaps pressure won't be quite as big of an issue with less heat to thin the oil.

 

[Dono]

I agree on the best place for the return being the oil pan. I will be going with a return pump, and a check valve on both sides of the turbo oil lines. On the oil inlet side the check valve will close at anything under 5lbs pressure, and on the oil return side the check valve will be a quick close one so there will be no backflow with the engine off.

I think with the turbo being fairly low, the only way to do this is with a pump. I don't think I could get the oil return safely below the turbo.

Another option would be to let the oil run out of the turbo in to a small catch can, and pump it out from there. This would add even more safety to the turbo oil seals.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

i have a idea don, not sure if you would like it or not, but, on your pan, you have the sensor for your message center. i know you wanted this truck for all the toys in it and everything, but what about using that for your return then?
just a thought, run it down however if you disagree.

 

[CDW6212R]

Interesting Don, I hope you get it done and love it.

I pondered the turbo idea for years until I decided that the air filter had to be under the hood for me. Running the extra pipes in the tight engine bay is way too hard, I even considered cutting up the floor pan under the right side(lifting the floor).

Work out the air filter, and the rest should be less tricky.

 

[Dono]

Tim, the message Centre sensor idea is fantastic...except everything I read says you need to make your oil pan hole above the oil line to prevent koking (oil foaming, and possibly a lock in the oil line). I'm not sure if the return line oil pump would take care of that, or not.
Okay, you guys that have been intimate with the 5.0, what about taping the timing chain cover up front?

Don, your absolutely right about the air filter thing. I'm going to start with a amsoil filter, an amsoil protective cover (like k@n's) and a splash shield. Then once I have everything running ill work on a better solution. Options are to maybe run a intake tube to the rad and up? I may work on modifying a stock air box with a snorkel up under the rear bumper? This will be a challenge.

On a side note, I think the air to water intercooler is going to make intercooling easy. It will run in line with the charge side pipe under the truck. Radiator in front. Nice thing is, I have the pump and radiator so cost will be extremely reasonable.

 

[FIND]

I'm not sure where you would have room to tap and add a fitting to the timing chain cover. And no, you definitely don't want to have the return go into the pan under the oil level, even with the pump.

If you are really opposed to tapping the pan, why not tap a valve cover? It will still be higher than desirable, but, it won't look as out of place as tapping the oil cap like STS does. The volume of oil running over your filter won't be so high that you will have to worry about drain down issues, and if you have a pump on the return side, you shouldn't have to worry much about pushing oil up....


Honestly though, I think you would be fine drilling and tapping the pan. Just put a strong magnet right next to your bit to catch most of what is coming off, then drain the oil right away and flush it out with a couple quarts. Then, if you have the turbo mounted at spare tire height, at least you are gravity neutral for oil return.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

there is a flat spot on the drivers side that would have a fuel pump if it was carb'd on the timing chain cover. maybe there?

better yet don, do you want me to take a few pics of the motor i have on the stand?

 

[Dono]

Im really swaying to go the oil fill cap route as its easiest and easiest to change if it doesn't work out. After-all, thats what STS uses so it can't be all bad.

I'll be using a oil scavenge pump with a check valve at either side of the turbo (1psi pressure to open the valve on the oil inlet side) , so there won't be any backflow in to the turbo when there is no oil pressure (scavenge pump turned off, and/or motor not running)

 

[Dono]

Arg, Im going to have to slide under the truck and look for a spot on the oil pan above the oil line that I can get to easily for drilling and tapping for a drain location.
Find, I agree that this is by far the best location, but I don't think it will be easy, and maybe not even dooable (If thats a word) without major pulling of stuff around the motor, or pulling the motor up.

Is there even enough meat on the pan (Pan thick enough) to thread safely? This is clearly going to take some more thought. At least I'm not in a rush for this.

 

[Turdle]

I understand the concerns. Ideally, pull the pan off, determine if it is aluminum or steel, then tap ( if aluminum) or weld (if steel) your bungs.

Better yet-acquire another oil pan to work with.

Some have a "low oil" warning light sensor hole, I bet this can be utilized

 

[Dono]

I understand the concerns. Ideally, pull the pan off, determine if it is aluminum or steel, then tap ( if aluminum) or weld (if steel) your bungs.

Better yet-acquire another oil pan to work with.

Some have a "low oil" warning light sensor hole, I bet this can be utilized

I have this sensor, but doesn't it sit below the oil line if there is the proper amount of oil in the pan?

I really don't want to lift the motor to pull the pan off. I just can't see me doing that. Im AWD, so there's a bunch of hardware in the way of the pan.

 

[delexploder]

Hey dono just got done talking to the guys at the shop and our idea is to use a sharp tapered punch to make a hole in the pan then weld a nipple or fitting on, if its stock then you have a steel pan so a punch while crude will make a clean hole.

 

[thorney_5]

Here's another idea.... http://www.fumotousa.com/

Install the version with the nipple into the oil drain plug and run the return line to it. When you have to change oil, just close the valve disconnect the hose, and open the valve.

This is only of course, if it is not an issue to have the return below the oil level. I would be a little worried about safety/durability down there though.

 

[Dono]

So, FIND mentioned Vortech.
He might be on to something.
delexploder, you are right on the money.

Looking at page 15 of the pdf here:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/pdf/manuals/4FA218im.pdf

They have a method for tapping the pan. I'll have so see if I have access to that part of the pan enough to punch the pan and make some threads.

Mike, I want one of those for changing my oil, however I don't see it helping me get a safe hole in my pan to tap above the oil line. I also don't want a valve on this as it needs to be open all the time. Knowing my luck I'd have a blonde moment at some point and close the valve. That would be an expensive mistake.

 

[CDW6212R]

The oil level sensor is located centered about one quart below full. That height should be no trouble for a return line, and you can work out a permanent answer later when a new engine gets done.

There should be oil in that turbo line system constantly, on or off. A check valve would help keep oil from moving along. I'd place the return line at the pan, and run it upwards a good six inches above the pan inlet, to keep gravity from trying to let it out. That should take care of any worries about the return being below pan oil level.

 

[Dono]

Don, Im having issues getting my head around the koking issue myself. I mean, if I ran the oil return line up 6 inches like you say, the oil would still be running downhill in to the pan, even if the oil level is a few inches above the oil line. I'm going to be using -10an return line, so it will be plenty large enough to keep from clogging.

I really need to climb under there for a look. Maybe I can T the low oil hole and keep the sensor. Not sure how good the sensor would be at indicating low level, but at least I wouldn't be nagging me to add oil when I'm full.

 

[CDW6212R]

I bet AN6 or AN4 is what is used by STS in their kits, or close to that. AN10 is a 5/8" hose, very big.

Presumably the oil will not be way too hot when the turbo oil pump stops each time, so I'm not sure what the coking issue would be either.

I think the oil level sensor is not likely to work right if it was placed outside the pan(by a "T" fitting). I'd find a way to stop the error message, grounding the sensor wire etc(what ever it takes). The hole in the pan is very large, it's around a 1/2" NPT in size, I've read it somewhere. That is a source of oil leaking, so be careful with the sensor and seal components. Treat them as delicate so you don't end up with a leak later when you reinstall it.

Back to the oil return line, if it is placed like STS suggests, up at the top, then there will be oil in that line constantly, when off. I don't see a problem with the oil being in the line(what causes the coking), but of course you don't want oil to drain back to the turbo, or have gravity cause any to seep out of the turbo seals.

The way to do that would be to minimize how much return line oil is above the turbo. Mount the turbo higher, make the return line on the smaller side(less volume), use a check valve near the turbo/pump, and route the line upwards above the turbo as close to the turbo as possible(minimizes oil that can run back to it).

Routing the return line above the oil pan oil level is just to keep the oil from flowing out by gravity(if the port is below the oil level).

 

[Dono]

I'm not sure why recommendations are an4 for oil feed, and an10 for return. I'm seeing it all over the net. Self perpetuating myth? I do agree that keeping the return line lowest possible is best for efficiency, even with a 1 way valve stopping the oil from flowing backwards. I may look at an10 to the scavenge pump, then go smaller exiting the pump. At least the smaller diameter line would be easier to work with.