Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[Turdle]

From memory I would say it was around 300-500 rpm variance. Enough that it sounded like I was slightly revving the engine while slowing from 50+ MPH

 

[Dono]

From memory I would say it was around 300-500 rpm variance. Enough that it sounded like I was slightly revving the engine while slowing from 50+ MPH

Yes, that's one of symptoms. When I resume tuning with James I'll remind him of your experience. It might help with the resolution. Thanks Turdle.

 

[Dono]

I started a thread on Torque Converter lockup here:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3491758#post3491758
I'm kinda scratching my head.
I have emailed James to see if he has the time and/or the desire to continue with this. He may just not want to do any more of this stuff due to his new career and trying to find time for his family.

 

[Dono]

There has been numerous obstacles to overcome, mostly getting my 347 motor to hold together. I think I'm finally there. Life's great!

With a 347 (45 more cubic inches) I fully expected my turbo to run in to boost faster. In fact, It does not. My motor is much more free flowing now and I do have much more bottom end torque, but.....still soft.

So what do I do? I email bullseyepower and get in touch with Bill Devine. Bill just happens to be one of the best rear mount turbo guys. He has been directly involved in some pioneering names in rear mount.

Bill has spec'd me out a hybrid with a t3 hot side. He started with a small t4, but suggested that the real answer is to change flanges and go t3. He says it will not choke the exhaust on my 'small' 347 (lol) and will build boost really quick and be a ton of fun while maxing out the turbo at about 500-550 whp. Perfect for my goals.



Its all learning for me. At least my mls head gaskets seem to be holding fine. I have run up to 10 lbs boost so far, but the boost comes on super 'soft'. Not exactly a wheel smoker, but it has been shown that the current combo an be quick in current form once the boost rolls on. How bad do I want that instant torque?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

*eye brows raised*

 

[CDW6212R]

Sounds great. Make it work, I wasn't brave enough to try that rear mount plan. That should be one of the very best in the end.

 

[Dono]

http://www.bullseyepower.com/products/view/62mm-BatMoWheel/77/

I never would have thought t3 for a 347. All I see is guys with these monster turbo's strapped to their exhaust. I'm sure a big reason is the rear mount with less exhaust volume but more density.

Bill is so confident that this is the right turbo for me, he says that if he is wrong he will send me a t4 housing and flange for free.

Bullseyepower seems pretty understanding that the current currency exchange rate really hurts, and is coming to the table.

I just had to pull some timing at mid rpm's as my current turbo goes in to boost with no issues on the highway under fairly light acceleration. I wonder what the right sized turbo would be like. Kinda scares me.

Don, I seem to make every mistake possible. I feel I am becoming an expert of sorts by learning what not to do. Once I get this right, maybe others will be more inclined to take the plunge.

 

[CDW6212R]

I feel your pain, I am that kind of person who seems to find the wrong way to do something first etc, or I'm just clumsy, or both. That's a small reason why I'm so slow, but as time goes I just get slower.

Long aside to that point; I spent two hours yesterday getting my "new" truck ready for an alignment. I mistakenly began by swapping rear tires, thinking I want to have four known good equal diameter tires on anyway, so start there. I got three moved between two trucks, and the left rear smacked me figuratively. The stock parking brake cable will not allow some wide wheels without moving it inboard of the V8 strut rod next to it(or tie it way back for a V6 truck). The cable was rubbing against the tire, no clearance at all. I had done that with my Mercury in about 2004 when I got the wider 18x8.5" wheels. Anyway, it was going to take a while to disconnect the parking brake cable from its joint, and I only had about 90 minutes left. So I swapped the tires back, and began the camber washers/kit. That gladly only took an hour, and I got to the appointment a couple of minutes late. Then the camber washers didn't really help, the tech couldn't get an alignment on the left with it lowered(over 2* negative), so he raised it back up. It has a nice spec now(7/8 degree each side), but it's about the stock height. I'll worry about the lowering later, at least the old BJ's etc, are good for now.

 

[4pointslow]

So glad to hear it is up and running again, how is the tuning going?
That turbo looks awesome, love the name Batmowheel. lol
So you hit 10 lbs recently with your current set up, how much would that new turbo get you up to?
What rpm does boost start now and what would it start at with the new one?

 

[Dono]

I was always fine with the boost once I was in it, but 1st gear would not build boost off the line. I'd find a 2 to 1 down shift would get me in to boost, but extremely soft from a stand still. That's even with the 2400 stall torque converter.
From my understanding, right sizing the turbo means having it meet the max hp goal and run out of steam right at that level. With my current turbo, I'm not even sure where the end of boost would be. I'm hoping that with the new turbo I will hit full boost by 3500 rpm in 1st gear, with boost starting to come on at 2000. I'd like the turbo to be able to max out at about 12lbs (out of overdrive). The factory 302 block can only handle so much safely, and 500 whp is probably at the edge of safe, so thats my goal. This is where the t3 turbo came in to play. I'm told I will probably have traction issues in 1st as boost will probably hit harder than I'm used to. There are so many factors that its hard to say exactly whats going to happen with how fast the boost comes on. The exhaust volume and temperature play a huge factor, and so does charge volume. I sure hope this is right, and I kinda have to leave it up to the guys that really know (As I clearly do not). If not, I'll be asking for a t4 housing and making yet another trip to the exhaust shop.

I kinda wanted to stick with a t4 sized turbo so that I could just unbolt my existing and bolt the new one on. I'm going to have to visit the exhaust shop again to have the flange changed from t4 to t3. The rest (air filter, oil lines, charge pipe) should bolt right up.

On the tuning, I have done no wot stuff at all. I'm certain that with increased boost I'm running super rich. Its been rainy here, so I have not bothered wot tuning. I have been struggling with warm start issues. I just can't seem to get the crank fuel right. I think I'm close, but not perfect yet. Also, on the highway coming home yesterday I rolled in to part throttle boost and heard some detonation. It would have been nice to have known what load level that occurred at. I just went ahead and guessed at the rpm level and adjusted timing in that area. Maybe this weekend I can do a wot run and dial in the a/f ratio much closer. I'm not going to put a ton of effort in to wot tuning as things are still changing.

Interesting thing....I was really struggling to see boost and wondering why. I checked all my piping, and all was good. So, I pop my 'tool box' lid and have a look at my air filter. It had actually crushed its self a little bit as it couldn't pull the required air. It was that plugged. So, out comes a fresh air filter from its box, and I was good to go. Down side to the air filter under the truck, for sure.

 

[4pointslow]

I would love to see a turbo map for the Bullseyepower turbo if they give you one.

 

[Dono]

me 2. Maps seem to be harder and harder to come by these days. I'm not sure why.

 

[CDW6212R]

I hope they hit the right turbo combination for you.

If you do end up with traction issues, you might have to put the front differential higher on the priority list. I'm sure that when tires begin to spin, almost all of the front power is going to just one tire up there, and it'll be the one spinning. An open differential allows the power to go to the axle with the least resistance, thus one spins and the other doesn't get much power.

I'm hoping that Torsen begins the run of D35 diffs that they have been taking names on a list for. I'm going to need one, and hopefully two if it's feasible.

 

[Dono]

Don, I'll research the torsen locker fro the front end. I'm sure you already have and that its the best street solution available for locking diff's.

I asked about the compressor map, and here is the response:
"No we stopped racing compressor maps a long ways back, we found they don't take the engines VE into consideration and many times the turbo did not perform s expected compared to the map for that very reason- we use the empirical data we have collected over the years from real field experience so we know exactly what to expect when making a recommendation, this is also one of the reasons we offer a performance guarantee to remove the burden or responsibility from the customers side."

This falls in to line with my experience. The turbo I am using shows a perfect compressor map for my application. My research on the internet (lots of hours) said take the perfect turbo and drop the turbine a/r by 2 sizes. So, I went from an a/r of about 1 down to .68. This 'sort of' worked for me. I'm so far in to this, I really want the combination I have maximized.

 

[4pointslow]

Have you ordered it yet?
They gave you a pretty good guarantee with replacing the turbine housing if it doesn't work.

 

[Dono]

Yup, the order is placed.
When a guy with over 20 years experience tells you what you need, you kinda have to listen.

 

[CDW6212R]

Don, I'll research the torsen locker fro the front end. I'm sure you already have and that its the best street solution available for locking diff's.
...

We do have a recent thread here that discusses the front diff, I think there is only one LS choice, and one or two locker choices. Find that one, I think the last post was a few weeks ago. It mentions Reider as the source IIRC, and a representative welcoming interest, a link to an email to be on their list etc.

 

[Dono]

Look what I found.
The only other adapters I had seen previously were about 3" thick.
This adapter is only 1/2" thick. This will save me a trip to the exhaust shop.

 

[Dono]

I didn't use the adapter. I decided that due to rust (Yes, I tried to remove some bolts that are on the current threaded flange and broke one) that I am best to go with a T3 flange that bolts the turbo on with nuts/bolts so on the next removal I can just bust the bolts if I need to.
And, yes, it was a trip to the exhaust shop.

There was no provision for a boost controller air tap on this turbo, so I'll need to drill/tap my outlet plumbing so the boost controller can see boost and allow adjustment. Maybe this weekend, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get to it or not.

I have not had time to do much tuning, but am safe as I'm extremely conservative on timing right now.

First impressions? The turbo is singing all the time. There is no hiding the turbo sound. lol. At about 30mph, the rear tires break loose. The truck is way louder at wot now, and when I let off the gas in a hurry, the blow off valve makes a super loud pop, and not the burble it used to make. On the highway, there is no boost unless I ease on the gas with the intent of solid acceleration which is perfect.

I've had a few minor issues to deal with, including a blown header gasket (thankfully the drivers side), and a fouled spark plug. I was 2 heat ranges colder, but have switched to one heat range cooler now, hopefully there won't be any more fouling.
Then I had a bit of a scare as I developed another oil leak. It did turn out to be the oil dipstick tube needing to be re-seated in to the block with ultrablack (between moving it around to replace the header gasket and spark plugs the original seal obviously broke). It's amazing how much oil leaks out of that dipstick hole if there isn't any sealant there.

I'd like to paint the exhaust exiting the turbo also, possibly powder coat it, but it all seems to come down to time and energy.

 

[Rick]

Sweet Glad it's working out well for you