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Water pump failure leads to dead engine

Discussion in 'Stock 2011 - 2019 Ford Explorer Discussion' started by tlbig10, March 25, 2015.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





?

Should Ford cover part of all of this repair out of loyalty?

  1. Yes, a water pump failure at 95k should not destroy an engine

    82 vote(s)
    86.3%
  2. No, and please quit whining about it

    13 vote(s)
    13.7%
  1. Forddealz

    Forddealz Active Member

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    To be fair. I have been reading this forum on daily basis for the past 4-5 years. Water pump leads to dead engine is rare and when it does happen then people report it on this forum. It's basically a bad apple. Millions sold and only like a thousand or even less reported since 2010 latest model release.
     
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  3. imp

    imp Well-Known Member

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    @Drewmcg Thanks for taking the time to inform me! Regarding Edge, I rented one in 2012, presumedly a 2012 model, to return to Missouri from Arizona, where we left my big F-700, in the process of moving. The edge performed beautifully, my nephew (a U.S. Marine) had helped me drive out the big truck, was driving the Edge when realized I had been dozing, looked over, he was cooking close to 100 on I-40! Thought about buying an edge, but now, well........I still like old, proven technology in favor of engineering brainstorms. imp
     
  4. Drewmcg

    Drewmcg Elite Explorer

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    Actually, you're reinforcing my point. This is a 5th Gen Ford Explorer forum. Hence, the first MY for this gen is 2011, with the 3.5L Duratec. If Ford more-or-less fixed the water pump problem in that model year, it stands to reason there would be very infrequent reports of the failure here.

    If you read the first gen Edge or Flex forums, different story . . . .

    Unfortunately, those few who experience the problem in 2011+ 3.5/3.7 Duratecs face a more significant risk of complete engine failure (i.e., blown bearings or other severe lower end of engine damage) than even the Cologne 4.0L's with the goofy timing chains. Easier to repair/replace heads than the lower end, for sure. And I'm not sure, but it might even be easier to pull a 4.0L engine than to drop a 3.5L. I've mostly only seen YouTube videos of it being done in a mechanics shop.
     
  5. Drewmcg

    Drewmcg Elite Explorer

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    Heck, Imp--let's pick up a wounded 2010 Edge and make it a project! Where's half way between Ann Arbor and Missouri?
     
  6. imp

    imp Well-Known Member

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    @Drewmcg
    How much I would absolutely love to commiserate with a compatriot doing a project like that, I cannot express! Unfortunately, since my personal info was written while I lived in Missouri Ozarks, I have high-tailed it out to the Colorado River area of Arizona, near Laughlin, NV. Why don't you come out for a good time? I'd like to meet you! imp
     
  7. Tech By Trade

    Tech By Trade Well-Known Member

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    Not as bad as when Chrysler did the same thing I guess.
     
  8. Sixonemale

    Sixonemale Active Member

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    The 5th generation Explorer is still very young, so more time must be given to establish whether or not this is a large or small problem, the Edge's and Flex's have been around for awhile and in many cases it's probably the second or third owner that this will happen to. It's clearly a large issue if you lose your engine with less than 150,000 miles due to a coolant leak. It's also noteworthy that this generation of Explorer has more horsepower and turbos that may or may not effect water pump spindle adversely. Lastly, a very small percent of owners post on a forum like this, probably less than 1%.
     
    Last edited: July 24, 2018
  9. waltchan

    waltchan New Member

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    The "fixed" two rows of teeth timing water pump still has some problem. Another 3rd and final-revision existed last year in 2016 or 2017, which is now called Motorcraft PW580 water pump part. It is installed in every new 2017-2019 new Ford & LIncoln vehicles still using Cyclone engines. The new, final-revision water pump (PW580) is now good for 200,000 miles estimated.
     
    Last edited: July 26, 2018
  10. waltchan

    waltchan New Member

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    In my opinion, Ford engines and their reliability have gone downhill since year 2000 or so (after 4.0L V6 OHV was discontinued), because the newer Ford engines are no longer OHV configuration. That's why Chevrolet continues to succeed with JD Power dependability awards (thanks to Silverado OHV engines) you see on TV daily, while Ford gets NOTHING. OHV (not SOHC or DOHC) is the key to success.

    In Ford Cyclone engines, the water pump is driven by chain because it's a DOHC. Period. If it's a OHV pushrod design, the water pump would be external. Easy. Get the picture... It's illegal to drive a water pump in OHV configuration, anyway.

    (Actually, the last and final Ford OHV engines were made in 2008, 4.2L and 3.0L, in F-150 regular-cab and Ranger only, but these were not mass-marketed models, you needed to place an order. 2001 Ford Explorer 5.0L V8 OHV and 2007 Ford Taurus 3.0L V6 OHV were the last and final mass-marketed Ford OHV vehicles.)
     
    Last edited: July 26, 2018
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  11. blwnsmoke

    blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    LMAO, those dependability awards that you see on TV are "initial" which are for the 1st 90 days of ownership.. have you ever read the fine print on those commercials? Ya because when I buy a vehicle, my thought isnt about long term, it is about the first 90 days. That award is such a junk award.
     
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  12. benjamin eng

    benjamin eng New Member

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    Attention: Ford Owners Who Experienced Water Pump Issues

    Our law firm is investigating claims concerning over reports of potential issues involving defective water pumps which may lead to potential engine failure.

    We are investigating the following vehicles:

    Vehicle Year

    Ford Edge 2007-2017
    Ford Explorer 2007-2017
    Ford Flex 2007-2017
    Ford Fusion 2007-2017
    Ford Taurus 2007-2017
    Lincoln MKX 2007-2017
    Lincoln MKZ 2007-2017
    Mercury Sable 2007-2009

    If you purchased or leased one of the above vehicles and experienced engine failure, and you would like to learn more about our investigation, please contact us today at 888-299-7706 or by email at info@ktmc.com, or follow this link:

    www.ktmc.com/ford-lincoln-water-pump-engine-failure


    James A. Maro
    Kessler Topaz Meltzer & Check, LLP
    280 King of Prussia Road
    Radnor, PA 19087
    (888) 299-7706
     
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  13. Sixonemale

    Sixonemale Active Member

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    The maintenance manual goes up to 150,000 miles for all fifth generation Explorers, therefore, designing a water pump for 200,000 miles seems about right. I assume that was probably design standard for all of water pumps made thus far, I can't imagine the first and second generation water pumps were designed for less than that. From what I know the first generation water pump had one row of teeth and the second generation water pump had two rows of teeth, what does the third generation water pump have that the second generation water does not have? Looking at images of the third generation water pump (PW580) online, it only has one gasket, I thought some of the water pumps had two gaskets for redundancy to stop a leak?
     
    Last edited: July 26, 2018
  14. imp

    imp Well-Known Member

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    @Sixonemale
    Stating that a mechanical, electrical, or hydraulic part will last XXXX miles, or years, is no different than predicting the future. So far, that is one of the most innacurate careers. imp
     
  15. bigdude2468

    bigdude2468 Active Member

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    I don't understand what having a push rod design versus overhead cam has to do with the water pump. Both push rod and OHC / DOHC engines are OHV. Plenty of OHC or DOHC engines have external water pumps. My understanding as pointed out many times in this thread is that the transverse mount of the engine did not leave room for a water pump. It has also been reported that the new Ex will change that with the engine mounted longitudinally and the water pump will be external.
     
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  16. Odrapnew

    Odrapnew Active Member

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    What does that mean?

    It's just as bad as the truck bed commercials.
     
  17. Sixonemale

    Sixonemale Active Member

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    Agree and that's the problem I have with this design knowing that it can destroy the engine with no warning. My point was that all three water pumps may have been designed by engineers to last to 200,000 miles, but can fail before that as shown in this thread, but am still not sure at what average mileage they fail at. I was specifically trying to figure out what or if anything has changed from the second to third generation water pump, because I can't readily see any difference.
     
    Last edited: July 27, 2018
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  18. mcpcartier

    mcpcartier New Member

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    I'm not sure about design details with regards to improvements. I had thought the double gasket was OEM and anything less was an economical version(knock off). When replacing my water pump I made sure the one I picked had concentric gaskets....not sure if there are any other design improvements (e.g. shaft load capabilities). What I found interesting is the pump I ended up ordering is manufactured by ACDELCO???

    Anyways....mine lasted 118k before it started leaking out the weep hole over the alternator. Here is a pic of what came out of my 2013 limited (OEM with a single gasket which surprised me) and the ACDELCO that I installed.




    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: July 27, 2018
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  19. aypanthony

    aypanthony Member

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    There are too many factors involved to try and determine what the average water pump life expectancy is. The water pump may be sensitive to factors which exacerbate design weaknesses. Maybe those with failures idled their engines for long periods, maybe the owners put additional additives in their coolant, maybe climate is a big factor. Im sure Ford's testing of the water pump is under ideal, laboratory conditions. Also, have to factor in that some water pumps weren't built to specification and can fail early. As far as the latest changes to the water pump, I bet they changed the bearing material, maybe updated the seals, but we probably won't be able to see the changes visually.

    Like the PTU, the best we can do is change the fluid more early than recommended and keep an eye on the coolant level. I pop open my hood a minimum of every week or so, to check oil and coolant on all my vehicles. In most cases, there should be a hint of an issue before catastrophic failure.
     
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  20. aypanthony

    aypanthony Member

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    Dang, you did the work yourself? Nice job

    Interesting, I thought even the older water pumps had double gaskets on the outer flange.
     
  21. VCFP153

    VCFP153 Elite Explorer

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    Reminds me of the old 2.5 Duratec V6 that had the water pump on the "back" of the engine, driven by a separate belt. Kind of an odd design.
     

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