Wheel Bearing or Worse?

[mikeinri]

OK, here's an update, this will be an ongoing saga...

Dealer never called me back regarding a trade. Since I've been driving my RV (7 mpg) as a daily driver for nearly two weeks, I decided to fix and keep this thing for now.

So, spent the entire weekend just getting the rear end apart (thanks Dad!). On the passenger side (the "good" side), I had a tougher time with rust, and then goofed and stripped the puller (I still had the ball joint and lower arm bolt in place to "help" hold the assembly still while I turned the puller bolt. BAD idea... Got a second puller, and it came right out once I removed all the knuckle hardware.

The other really stupid idea that I had was to whack on the end of the axle with a 4-lb hammer. It didn't help much (the axle may have gone in about 3/16 inch), and it slightly mushroomed the end of the axle (I can still get the nut back on), so I'm assuming I'm OK to re-use that axle?

Anyway, most of the stuff on the driver side mostly came apart much easier, probably from all the wobbling with the bad bearing and ebrakes. The ebrakes were toast (pads off the metal), and I'm figuring that accounted for most of the screeching noise that I was getting. The wheel bearing was totally fubared.

The major problem was getting the trailing link and upper ball joint free on the driver side. I ended up using a pickle fork to put around the arm of the trailing link, ran it behind the hub, and was able to hit it with a hammer from the front of the hub toward the back of the truck. This was after trying to wedge it in at the boot, which didn't do any good at all.

For the ball joint, no amount of prying, hammering, PB Blaster or heat from a torch was getting us anywhere. Just no good way to get leverage on anything, and hitting the upper arm with a hammer wasn't doing much good.

BIG TIP: Finally, I removed the trailing link and lower arm bolt, pushed the axle out while flipping the hub up and away, then once the hub was off the axle, I was able to spin the hub/knuckle assembly around on the ball joint axis (so that the hub lug bolts were facing inward toward the axle), and was able to see the pinch joint opening. For about another 30 minutes, we worked at opening that joint, but the ball stud still wouldn't let go. Then, we noticed that there was a small area just under the end of the stud within the opening, put a normal screwdriver in there, and was able to pry the stud up and it popped right out. Wow, was that frustrating!

Took the bearings to Sears since it was Sunday at this point and nothing else was open. They wanted to charge 2.4 hours for "bearing service" and I threatened to walk and wait a day. They came down to 1 hour ($85). What they didn't tell me was that I was going to have to wait 4.5 hours for them to work it around the other cars they had in for service (I would have gone home). Anyway, by the time I got home, we were too tired to continue, so now I have to wait to put it back together...

Anyway, I also tore the drivers side upper rear ball joint boot in the process, a tiny amount of grease came out. My dad wants to try black Permatex (just cover up the hole, I guess), I would prefer to replace the boot, not sure if that's an option? I really don't want to replace the ball joint, and especially not the entire upper arm (although we did put some good dings in it while prying).

Mike

 

[Carguy3J]

$85 ?!?!? I guess if you were stuck, you were stuck, but I wouldn't let a Sears repair shop within 20ft of my car, or it's parts. Wow! I paid about half that, when I brought one to a local shop.

As for the ball joint boot, no I'm pretty sure you can't even buy just a new boot. Plus, it probably wouldn't seal very well anyway. Neither will the Permatex idea. I've tried it, to try and save a a couple of cv boots, that only had a teeny-tiny hole. It just doesn't work; too much flexing going on. At this point, you might as well just replace the ball joint while it's already apart. I don't think the ball joint is that expensive. If you don't do it now, you'll just end up taking it apart again soon.

On the cv-axle nut, technically those nuts are a one time use, even if you do any damage. Most people do reuse them though. I don't know how bad you "mushroomed" the axle, but be sure you really can get that nut back on all the way, without stripping/crossthreading it; otherwise you'll find out later, and then have to take it all apart again to change the axle. Again, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and change the axle at this point. With the severe stress and heat generated by the bad bearing, and the dragging e-brake shoes, you've probably shortened the life of the at least the outer cv anyway. Also, cv joints really don't "like" being hammered on. If you hit it enough to mushroom it, you may have done internal damage to balls/cages.

 

[mxwarren]

Your "play" in the rear tire is more than likely the rear control arms. Mine just went bad and I had a heck of a time getting replacement arms- they are backordered from ford - 3 weeks waiting time.

 

[Carguy3J]

Your "play" in the rear tire is more than likely the rear control arms. Mine just went bad and I had a heck of a time getting replacement arms- they are backordered from ford - 3 weeks waiting time.

Did you actaully read the whole thread before posting? He has said, it was confirmed to be bad rear wheel bearings, a known, common issue with 3rd gen Explorers. Further, it is quite simple to tell the difference between a little "play" in the steering/suspension components, and a wheel "wobble" due to a bad bearing.

 

[mxwarren]

My wheel would "wobble" a good 1/4" side to side also. It was the lower control arm that was the culprit! If you have that much play in the bearings they would have to be almost disintegrated.

 

[Carguy3J]

My wheel would "wobble" a good 1/4" side to side also. It was the lower control arm that was the culprit! If you have that much play in the bearings they would have to be almost disintegrated.

You're right, and that's how they usually end up. The last one I worked on, it got so hot, that the bearing "shell" almost welded itself to the knuckle.

 

[hoss_hanna]

My wheel would "wobble" a good 1/4" side to side also. It was the lower control arm that was the culprit! If you have that much play in the bearings they would have to be almost disintegrated.

last one i took apart (a customers 03) the bearings HAD denigrated, the ball bearings fell out as we pulled it apart, the control arms were still in good shape and he had alot more than 1/4 inch of travel side to side. (he musta ate his lucky charms as he was driving for 2 weeks like this 30 miles a day, if it was me id have had to call dan to come tow me in lol)

 

[mikeinri]

Trust me, the bad wheel bearing was REALLY obvious, and little pieces came out when they pressed them. The upper joint and trailing link were very tight on both sides.

I don't know what to think about the bushings in the lower arms. Seems like more slop than I would expect, but I don't know what to compare that to. If I take the trailing link and upper ball joint off, and just keep the lower bolt in place, I can rock the hub back-and-forth (front to back of truck, hard to describe here). Is that normal? Is that bushing replaceable without replacing the entire lower arm?

I'm not at all worried that I damaged any guts of the axle with the hammer, nothing was moving while I was doing that. Also, this was on the "good side" (the bearing was probably OK, I was just replacing them both at the same time as a precaution). That's a risk I'm definitely willing to take, rather than going through the agony of replacing an axle "just in case." From what I've read here, that seems like a miserable job that I could easily screw up.

As for the rear upper ball joint, can that be pressed in/out? All I see on this site is reference to pressing front ball joints, has anyone here done the rear upper ball joints (as opposed to replacing the entire upper arm)?

Mike

 

[hoss_hanna]

how much is "more slop than id expect"? there will be a little movement but shouldn't be alot... and unless u went really redneck on the axle with your BFH (big effin hammer) i wouldn't be that concerned about it. i haven't done the r. upper ball joints myself, i would think u could do them the same as the fronts... but i got a guy that i can ask, ill try to get ahold of him in a bit

 

[mikeinri]

I can't find any part numbers for a rear ball joint, tried all the obvious sites. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, really can't see taking the upper control arm out just for a slightly torn boot.

Mike

 

[Carguy3J]

I can't find any part numbers for a rear ball joint, tried all the obvious sites. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, really can't see taking the upper control arm out just for a slightly torn boot.

Mike

Bushings for the rear control arms are $10 and $18, for the uppers, and $33 for the lower, at Rockauto.

On the ball joint, apparently, I "misremembered" seeing seperate rear upper balljoints. Rockauto has the complete rear upper control arms, for $135 each.

I know it may seem unnecessary to replace the whole arm, but once that boot is torn, the clock is ticking. Even without a torn boot, a ball joint is a wear item. They do need to be replaced from time-to-time. With the boot torn, the grease is going to leak out, and dirt and water are going to get in, and only accellerate the wear. Will it get you by for a while? I don't know, I'm not there to see it. It may very well be fine for a while, or it may only last a month; no way to know for sure. At some point, you will have to do it. If you do it now, half the job (probably more) is already done. Do you really want to have to tear it apart again?

 

[mikeinri]

No, I certainly don't WANT to do this again... but I also have old tires and think I'm willing to wait until I'm ready to fix the front end, get new tires and then get the alignment. Sadly, this is also partially a cash-flow issue...

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

OK, rear end is done (FINALLY)!!!

New Timken bearings/hubs, ebrake shoes and hardware, rotors and pads.

Worse brake setup I've ever seen, ebrakes are so difficult to deal with. Of course, Sears bending the daylights out of one of the backing plates didn't help, I put it all together and got a terrible scraping noise on the test drive. Took off the rotor, had to pound away with a punch to straighten it out. Rear seems good to go now!

On to the fronts. I read the front bearing thread, and I have the deep offset wrench, and a 15 mm swivel socket, wow what a pain this is. I too have the black gunk holding the hub to the knuckle. I'm getting the bolts to back out (slowly), but keep running into the CV axle, even with the hub puller in place.

Anyone have a good way to break that seal with the black gunk? What is that stuff anyway, and do I need to put some in with the new hub assembly? I'm thinking it must be acting as a seal to keep water away from the ABS sensor?

Speaking of ABS sensors, I have new Timken bearings without the cable. I assume this is just plug-and-play with the old cable in place, right? I took out the allen-head screw, just not sure how to get the cable out of the old hub without damaging the cable.

And, the existing cable says Timken on it, so maybe this is not the original bearing in the front? I bought it with 57,000 or so, now have 103,000 miles.

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

Today's update...

Broke BOTH ABS sensors trying to get them out. How DO you remove those to re-use them?

I'm 1/2 done with the front (everything is apart), now I need to wait for the new bearings with sensors. My local AutoZone only had the non-sensor Timkens available, so I bought them, now I'll need to return them. They claim the ones with sensors are special-order...

Also, went to the local Ford dealer for axle nuts and bearing bolts, they wouldn't even show them to me, told me the service guys re-use all the old hardware!!!

Mike

 

[Carguy3J]

Today's update...

Broke BOTH ABS sensors trying to get them out. How DO you remove those to re-use them?

I'm 1/2 done with the front, now I need to wait for the new bearings with sensors. My local AutoZone only had the non-sensor Timkens available, so I bought them, now I'll need to return them. They claim the ones with sensors are special-order...

Also, went to the local Ford dealer for axle nuts and bearing bolts, they wouldn't even show them to me, told me the service guys re-use all the old hardware!!!

Mike

Generally, you DON'T get the old sensors out of the hub w/o breaking them. Why A-Z? I gave you a shopping cart link for Rock, with new Timken's w/ sensors. I'm sure Rock is cheaper, and it's unusual for A-Z to match, unless you have an "in" with manager. BTW, if you are going to A-Z, you might save a little with the Duralast brand. They are ok, but stay away from the Valuecraft.

On the axle nut, bring it with you to A-Z. They have some "loose" axle nuts, in cardboard bins, back by the commercial counter. See if they can match up your old one. Dorman does have a part number for it, but I don't really feel like spending an hour looking it up right now; maybe late tonight, if I'm bored.

What ever happened with the balancer situation? Did you ever get a 2nd opinion, or the delaer to show you what's wrong?

 

[mikeinri]

Sadly, this is also partially a cash-flow issue...

Went to AZ only because I got paid on Friday, and wanted to wrap this up over the weekend. Now, I'm into another week...

Thanks for confirming my suspicion on the ABS sensor. My dad broke the first one and was all upset until I broke the second... Another local parts place wanted $130 each just for the sensor cables...

No update on the balancer yet, I'll be taking it for a second opionion after I get the bearings fixed. The truck has been parked (undriveable) for three weeks and counting.

Mike

 

[DLinkOZ]

If you're looking for a decently-priced hub, check O'Reilly (if you have one local to you). All of their locations around my area carry the hub in stock, comes with the ABS cable and the 5 bolts (3 flange and 2 caliper) for $133 (I called and they opened the box up and verified what's included). Not the name brand, but I've used that particular brand in the past (don't recall off the top of my head) without issue.

 

[mikeinri]

No dice. O'Reilly's has nothing in the entire northeast part of the country, apparently (I checked their website).

I ordered Timkens w/ABS sensors from RockAuto.

Would have ordered the Ford ones, but they didn't get back to me, and my old bolts look fine.

I just want to be done...

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

New update. Major progress / milestone!!!

OK, finally got the bearings and brakes done. Got Timkens with the ABS sensor (from RockAuto this time, can't say enough good things about them). They actually came with new bolts (with the yellow threadlock) which I was not expecting. Came with bolts for the hub/bearing, as well as bolts for the caliper bracket.

Only problem was that the bolts for the caliper bracket were not up to the task of 150 LB of torque. Snapped one, put the old one in (w/red locktite), and it held the torque. I used new ones for the remainder, just didn't go all the way to 150 on the torque.

So, now I can drive around again. None of the tires have metal showing, as the original dealer claimed. Yes, I need tires (at least in the front), but it's totally driveable.

Next, I'm going to replace the plugs and wires (mine are original) and see if that improves the engine performance. If not, I'll take it in to have a second opinion on the harmonic balancer.

BTW, what are the best spark plugs for a 2004 V6? I would think double platinum, Autolite? Does anyone routinely replace the coil pack as part of a 100K tune-up (ie plugs and wires)?

After that, a couple of tires and an alignment, and this horror story is over. I'll deal with the pinion seals later, and probably get all new tires before next winter.

Oh yeah, didn't bother with the sway bar bushings either, they looked OK, so I sprayed them with PB Blaster, everything is nice and quiet now...

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

OK, been driving all week, suspension seems fine.

Got new Motorcraft wires and Autolite plugs (double-plat), will put those in over the weekend.

Any comments on whether to replace the coil pack as part of a normal 100K tune-up?

Mike