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Will Be Blown Again!

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by Blown, December 14, 2017.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. Devan

    Devan Active Member

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    That blower porn is awesome dude almost makes me wanna swap a 5.0 into my 01 BoostedXPLR Sport. But I am working on a 4.0 to 4.3 or 4.4 stroker V6
     
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  3. Blown

    Blown Active Member

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    Fun Stuff you got there!

    Yup, if I wanted a real go fast machine, I would build a Mustang. This is my daily driver, work truck and camper.
     
  4. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    Cool project. I’d considered trying to do similar except with the kenne bell lightning discharge manifold, but had been unable to track one down. My main concerns were pulley allignment and hood/firewall clearance.

    As for pulley allignment, I was never able to verify the drive length on the lightning/truck kits. If they used the 314mm fox mustang drive, the 270mm drive should be right on, or at least close enough to use with either machining down or making a slightly longer seal spacer. Thats often necessary on explorer intake mustangs just due to casting variation. I got lucky on my thunderbird and pulley alignment was spot on.

    I decided the potential issues and difficulty of finding a lightning discharge probably werent worth it, so i was just going to make a custom top plate for my explorer express kit to use my spare kb 2.2 and dodge drive (185mm). I’d still have to fab a custom blower to throttle body manifold, but the old kb manifolds are junk for higher boost anyways due to restriction.

    Then I installed the supposed 9psi pulley on my x-charger and got a surprise. Hit 13psi at wot before I let out of it. Apparently the little magnussen mp-90 is adequate for a stock block 302 after all. I bumped the pulley back up to 10psi and gave up on the kb until/unless I go dart block in my ranger.

    Chris
     
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  5. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Hi Chris, get back to that project, the more people start one, the better they all should be. I decided I had to have an intercooler, so the rub becomes how to route the air from the blower to the intake. I finally settled on having to fabricate the plenums between the TB/Blower/IC/intake. I found this picture years ago on the Corral, someone did make something similar;
    KB Intercooler.jpg


    There's also a big 358/KB 2.8 race car member on the Corral who runs it in a 92ish Saleen Mustang. He made the same layout, but much bigger/stronger components for big boost and reliability. That thing runs low 9's on a narrow tire.

    I only have the KB and a lower intake so far, I like the TFS R for the large ports and short height. This will be much better than a GT40 to build an IC plenum on top of;

    TFS-515L0003 R intake.jpg
     
    Last edited: June 20, 2018
  6. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    Yeah, I always wanted to do a custom intercooler, but in my thunderbird with the kb 2.1 blow/flow kit. The amount of custom fab required, trying to keep it under hood, pretty much killed that one. I considered using the same intake you are, but it would still be too tall. I’d do closer to the lightning whipple guy on corral, who cut up a 4 barrel intake and set the intercooler into it, basically no runners like mod motor kb’s.

    However, im stuck with 91 octane here and all my vehicles do daily driver duty, at least when they run. The twin screw blowers respond really well to water meth so i’m sticking with that for now.

    I’m actually finishing up my new motor build for my thunderbird currently. Its a stock explorer shortblock with afr165’s and a custom cam. Will run the kb at 12psi with maf controlled 50/50 water meth. 16 gpm nozzle. Hopefully the block holds at 450-500 rwhp. I was hoping to go with a fordstrokers dart 363, but couldnt do the funds this year. Theres a good chance ill do the 363 swap in a few years, so the ranger will get the afr headed motor if the block survives. Then ill find out how far i can push the mp-90, or if i need to use the kb2.2.

    Or my 5.9 dakota will piss me off enough that i actually put the kb on it, as i have the full kit. Just such a poorly designed setup that I never felt comfortable with it on my reliable truck.
    And yes, I really like roots/twin screw superchargers, lol.
    Chris
     
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  7. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    Well, I’m back to trying a similar build. Hopefully hood clearance works. 98 ranger 5.0 swap, powerdome hood.

    Just impulse-purchased a set of gen 1 lightning kenne bell manifolds on ebay. Hopefully pulley allignment will work with a 94-95 mustang drive.

    Running my explorer express x-charger at 10psi, I’m actually pegging a lightning IAT at 250* during WOT pulls. Its a time bomb even with the computer pulling tons of timing. I was planning on a large shot of water meth, but a kenne bell 2.2 should run much cooler.

    Chris
     
  8. Blown

    Blown Active Member

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    10lbs was maximum without cooling for my KB blower.

    Meth/H2O injection is an added thing to go wrong and if it does there's a high likelyhood of blowing your engine.

    I am hitting the pick n pull this Saturday for an F150 Lower intake and accessories. I'll then get to bolt this up and see what's to be done with the blower snout length and anything that may be in the way.....................................excluding camping.....

    [​IMG]
     
  9. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    Are you switching over to F-150 FEAD? The explorer 5.0 engine bay is already super tight, I'm not sure the longer accessory setup will fit.

    The 94-95 mustang drive should be very close to correct length for the explorer accessories, and will have no interference issues. My Explorer Express kit with M-90 has the snout in the same position as the KB setup, and they just swapped the stock idler to a smaller unit and added a second idler for belt wrap on the supercharger pulley. Luckily for me, the main plate with idlers and the snout support are two separate pieces, so I'll be able to just fab a new snout support and keep the idler setup as is. I'm traveling for work currently, or I'd post some pics of my eaton setup for reference.

    Are you planning to add a bypass valve? It looks like your kit doesn't have one. My Lightning manifolds are also non-bypass, so I'll have to fab one in before install. I'm not sure if I'll use the Lightning inlet, or build a completely custom one. Your inlet looks much better suited to the Explorer 5.0 setup though, just need to make an easy TB adapter. These early KB inlets are stupid restrictive, but I'm not sure how firewall clearance will be for improving them. My M90 kit sits much farther forward, with the discharge actually slightly forward of the front ports on the lower. Inlet restriction is what causes so much of the heat in these superchargers, but if you're staying low boost, probably won't be an issue.

    I'm running a 2.1L Kenne Bell Flow/Blow at 10psi on my thunderbird. The IAT's are high, 200*ish, but still way cooler than this eaton is running. I'm just pushing the M-90 way too hard and out of its efficiency zone. I have a new motor built for that car, just need to get it dropped in. It will be running afr165 heads, a custom cam, and a heavily ported gt40 lower. Aiming for 12psi with 6.5" lower and 2 7/8 upper. Currently seeing 10psi with 5.85" lower. I will be spraying 16gph 50/50 water meth. You can keep water meth safe with the tune by pulling tons of timing with IAT. If the meth fails, your IAT will skyrocket.

    You'll probably get your build in progress before me. I need to put the that engine in before I tear into the ranger. My other truck cracked a head, so I just finished a HCI build on it and am dealing with tune issues. So I need to get my daily tuned, my fun car swapped, then I can pull the supercharger off the ranger and mock up my Lightning manifolds and my freshly rebuilt KB 2.2. Its nice to have projects, especially when I'm only home every other weekend this summer.

    Chris
     
  10. Blown

    Blown Active Member

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    cool stuff Chris

    I am using an F150 lower intake because that is what the blower manifold was made to for. This was an F150/Bronco kit. I will get the snout shortened to meet the existing accessory belt. I am not concerned with a bypass at 5 or 6lbs.
     
  11. Dono

    Dono 347 V8 Limited turbo Elite Explorer

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    pls detail the shortening of the snout.
    I'm curious as to the 'how'.
     
  12. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    I’ve seen a snout cut down before, but it was a large amount of machining required. In this case its probably going to be much cheaper to buy the correct snout from kenne bell, unless you have access to a machine shop and the skills to do it.
    Chris
     
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  13. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    I understand why you’re using the f150 lower. When you said accessories, i thought you were refering to using the F150 FEAD instead of dealing with the shorter Explorer FEAD.
     
  14. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    Ditto, making the blower fit an existing snout will be easier hopefully.

    Chris, if you might have to fabricate any of the plenum/inlet parts, why not build it all around an intercooler? I've seen the Mustang chop up and divide a plenum to route the discharge to an A2A IC out front, that's almost old now.

    I need to locate the snout and idler bracketry for mine, all I have is the bare 2.2 KB. This picture below is the layout I'm shooting for. This is some Mustang from long ago on the Corral, I saved the picture to show the idea. Since I have to build the plenums, the GT40 is a bad choice for an intake, it's very restrictive. Another Corral member has a 92 Saleen Mustang with a 358 and KB 2800, it's a 9 second car, but uses the same flow layout. The blower discharges up, to the plenum leading over an IC, down to the TFS lower intake. That will fit easily under the hood, but the space around the back for the inlet plenum will be thin, a bit tall I think. I'll try to push(build) the IC plenum forward as much as possible at the back, which makes the inlet plenum bigger.

    KB_Cooler.jpg
     
  15. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    I bought the lightning manifolds for the discharge. The intake just might work as well, but would just be a minor convenience. Building a discharge requires a ton of precision and strength, as it controlls pulley alignment and angle, and also serves as the mounting for the kit. The inlet just needs minimal restriction and put the TB in the right location. These early KB inlets have terrible restriction issues, but Im not sure if firewall clearance will allow for much improvement.

    The f150/lightning kits appear to use the fox mustang 315mm drive. If OP could confirm, that would be awesome. If so, the 94-95 mustang 270mm drive will be a very close fit on an explorer, since they are basically sn-95 mustang FEAD length, using same timing cover and water pump.

    An air/water setup would be cool, but not clearing stock hood unless you build a custom lower. In the mustang config, like your pic, you run into brake booster and power steering hose clearance issues, but can be made to work by going slightly taller. I know there was an explorer running a 94-95 KB kit. The mustang kit is designed for much less hood clearance, hence the blower almost touching valve cover. Thats actually why I went with afr-165’s instead of 11r190’s on my car. The old KB kits had the distributer to avoid both on mustang and F150, nice advantage the explorer has.

    I actually think water/meth is a better solution for a pushrod KB than air/water, especially on 91 pump gas. Both simpler and able to add more timing. My ranger will still get water/meth if I like it on the thunderbird, or I cant keep IATs reasonable.

    Building yer own kit discharge, I’d push the blower way forward, using the 185mm dodge drive, or the 141mm termi cobra drive. It will offset your discharge port forward of lower intake, but will make the inlet much easier and less restrictive. This was my plan with modding my explorer express discharge, but the KB lightning manifold was too nice to pass up.

    To the OP, really watch IATs at cruise with no bypass. I’ve seen 200* plus logs even with low boost. Remember, intake restriction causes much of the KB heat issue, and a closed TB is one hell of a restriction.

    Chris
     
    Last edited: June 1, 2018
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  16. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    The saleen mustang 2.8KB build is the successful drive shortening I’ve seen, IIRC. However, the machining and fabrication in that build is insane. Way over the top of my skills and funds
     
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  17. CDW6212R

    CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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    That's a good description of his skills of fabrication. He was building for the potential of much more boost, and he's been running 20ish psi and working out other car issues, fuel etc. I know he's on some small/narrow tires, but with the right traction he could be even more scary fast. I hope he keeps it reliable and safe all along the way.

    Thanks for the details of other snout lengths, I knew there were just a few choices available. I do want the blower forward as much as needed to clear things the best.

    The hood room is plenty in the Explorers, for a large blower, or an IC beside it, but not for them stacked. It lacks a good 3" to be able to fit a decent IC under the blower(like the EE kit setup).
     
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  18. 77'cj7

    77'cj7 Member

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    Made it home this weekend. Snapped a few pics of the EE kit belt setup while I was fighting with the tune on my dakota. The drivers side pulley is a smaller pulley in factory idler location. The passenger side is added with the front plate. This pulley setup gives decently good belt wrap, even with the minuscule pulley my eaton runs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My lightning manifolds should show up Monday, so hopefully I'll get some time to play with mockups next time I'm home.

    CDW6212R, my KB2.2 currently has a dodge 185mm drive on it. I'll take some pics showing where that will put the compressor in relation to the firewall and the discharge relative to lower. If my lightning manifold doesn't work out, that will be my second option anyway.

    Chris
     
  19. Blown

    Blown Active Member

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    The blower snout idler pulley bracket. It bolts to the top two water pump bolts and this is the height it should be at. No problem with hood clearance.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This has a 270mm snout and they come in 314, 270 185, and 141. Cut away of blower snout. I do not see such difficulty in machining? We will see.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: June 4, 2018
  20. Blown

    Blown Active Member

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    Snout and idler pulley bracket.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I will cut away the stock idler and part of the stock bracket to fit it.
    [​IMG]

    The Exploder stock crank pulley is 6", F150 is 6.5". It will spin about 8% slower. I hope I got a good pulley size to get the boost I want................................
     
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  21. Blown

    Blown Active Member

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    ((14.7+Boost) / 14.7) x (engine liters / 2)) / Supercharger Size liters = Theoretical Pully Ratio*
    Shooting for 6lbs

    ((14.7 + 6lbs/ 14/7) X 5.0/2)) / 2.1liter = 1.68 :1

    I got a 3 5/16" blower pulley = 1.85 :1 should be about 8lbs of boost at sea level.
     
    Last edited: June 5, 2018
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