Yet another V8 Swap..

[Tif0ez]

ok, so now i'm 100% on how both fuel systems are run..
The 98 donor v8 has two metal braided lines running from the fuel rail down to the frame, the 02 Trac has one down from the rail, and the other that I thought might be a second fuel line goes to the rad support for the evaporative.. So I'll be hunting down the returnless fuel rail & injectors for the project after all..

 

[Tif0ez]

The inspection on the daily driven donor is going to expire on the last day of February, so I anticipate a dramatic increase of activity soon!!
I've taken this time to look into the PATS and other systems that I'll need to retain from the '98
I'm not sure I'm so excited to be tackling this alone & in freezing temps, but its gotta get done..

 

[imp]

The inspection on the daily driven donor is going to expire on the last day of February, so I anticipate a dramatic increase of activity soon!!
I've taken this time to look into the PATS and other systems that I'll need to retain from the '98
I'm not sure I'm so excited to be tackling this alone & in freezing temps, but its gotta get done..

@Tifoez & Lavinia
I once "swung" a 430 Lincoln engine when it was below zero outside, in Chicago. Crazy when I was younger. imp

 

[Tif0ez]

Thank you everyone so far to help with my confidence on this project! Without y'alls support, I'm not sure I would have the nerve to attack this build while dealing with the cold temps.. I expected to be doing this swap in our garage, and will probably finish the second half of the install inside the garage for sure!!

I am set for the returnless fuel information, but I am wondering if I should just change out the fuel system to a return set-up since I'll already be messing with most of the wiring, steering column, and inside the dash for the PATS??

I honestly believe the snail like pace of this build for me is to prevent frankensteining any of it.. I might not be able to go beyond the swap and redo manifolds or any of the fun stuff for a while, borrowing vehicles and paying gas money for rides while putting this together is going to be tugging on the budget as is..

The moment the donor dd goes down, I'll make sure to keep the camera charged, because it'll be a weekend to completion..

If anyone else has tip on things to be aware of, please don't hesitate to chime in, and once again, THANK YOU to everyone!!

 

[410Fortune]

No need to mess with the fuel tank, sender, fuel lines, etc it is much easier to swap out the fuel rail and injectors.
Returnless is preferred because it keeps the fuel cooler = better MPG

There should not be much wiring for you
Pats is super easy to access, it is not like you have to drop the dash, just the knee guard, instrument cluster, pass airbag and center bezel
Why do you have to mess with the steering column?

 

[Tif0ez]

Not sure what I will personally encounter with my build, I've spent the last two months trying to research everyone elses 5.0 swap, and noticed some issues that I might encounter..

About swapping the column, I had assumed that the PATS mounting points would be different from the 98 to the 02??
I assumed that I would have issues because of "Madmacks" post.. and he is working on an '01

2001 Explorer Sport v6 to v8 swap PATS problem

 

[410Fortune]

Quote from Just1me in that thread:

"What is the build date of your 2001 Sport? The 2001 Sport/Sport Tracs had a early and late 2001 build, the early had Pats B, but all late 2001 had Pats E which is not compatible with Pats B. You would not need to swap columns, but you would need the ignition tumbler, Pats Transceiver, Pats Key, Pats Module, and the wiring between them from the Explorer to wire correctly into your Sport.

Also if your Sport is a late 2001 there is a wire coming from the starter relay that was grounded by the 4.0 PCM for Pats E, it goes through the C110 connector Pin 28 it is Dark Blue/Orange. That wire will need grounded for the V8 swap otherwise your starter will not even crank."

Adding the 98-01 pats stuff into your dash is pretty simple, you can add the halo (if needed) to the ignition cylinder without dropping the column. The 2001 column should already have a halo on the ignition you can just use that with your 98 Pats PCM and pats module behind airbag

You can do this!

 

[imp]

@410Fortune
"Returnless is preferred because it keeps the fuel cooler = better MPG"

This is very true. Passing fuel constantly through rails underhood back to tank is a good idea in Antarctica, maybe.

Another thing I have noticed: MUCH longer filter life with returnless. Each tank fill-up may introduce some crap, which immediately gets shoved into the filter with return-type. I believe the returnless type specified on my '04 looks to have a smaller filter cross-sectional area. imp

 

[Tif0ez]

Right, but the quoted thread is about an '01 which would be PATS B, I am working on a confirmed '02 which has PATS E..

As for changing the fuel to a returnless, wouldn't I have to rewire or change something for the motor to go from return to returnless? I am uncertain how the v6 fuel system can handle the v8 needed pressures.. without needing to do something other than rail & injectors..

I realize that I am going to be applying several methods on this, my only concern is a meltdown, or burning out a system because I wire something wrong..

As long as I have the correct pins and places that will need swapped and/or rewired, I am confident with my soldering/glued heat shrink and repinning craftsmanship.. i'm going back into the old threads to find as many examples where my build needs adapted, that way I have more examples on the PATS and fuel system issues..

 

[410Fortune]

The 02 HAD pats E you are now going to be ADDING the 98 Pats B to the truck. The halo in the steering column from the E system can likely just stay in place.
The result is you have to ground one wire for the starter.
The V8 pcm checks with the PATS B module (behind airbag) to ensure the PATS transponder key is in the halo (steering column) and then it allows the injectors to fire = running engine.

FYI with PATS B we can wire PATS B into a 1976 VW beetle if we wanted to.........or a dune buggy or anything else. My point is it is a stand alone system with like 7 total wires that interface with the vehicle. I have added PATS to a Gen I Ranger, to a 98 Ranger, to 89 BII and others so we could use the stock PCM without a tune, none of these vehicles came with PATS.

There is no difference between the V6 and V8 fuel systems except for addition 2 injectors. Return style runs at 38 psi rail pressure, the returnless runs at 68 psi.
The change is instead of a vacuum regulator on the fuel rail there is a simple regulator in the tank eliminating the return line.

 

[Tif0ez]

So I am to the point where I want to clean the engine bay before I start with the install.. I don't have access to an outdoor water source for a pressure washer as I intended, so I'll be looking for a scrub and rinse cleaner.. I'd like to paint this area also, but since I have not ordered the exterior paint, just a cleaning and maybe lay some black on the unprotected areas..
I am also dealing with the usual "life happens" moments during this build, and I want to apologize for not posting more frequently..
https://scontent.***c1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52592533_1210496129109096_8986767107471441920_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.***c1-1.fna&oh=fc0d3daba30ddba67571b33b1edb3c55&oe=5CE99392

 

[Tif0ez]

Got some progress done, but we are back to the single digit temperatures, so back to the paper planning aspect..

https://scontent.***c1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53142690_1221623654663010_7496189705143189504_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.***c1-1.fna&oh=39be3ff77acae596448ca662a8f80f58&oe=5D223538

 

[Tif0ez]

Found a decent set of wheels that should compliment the build nicely

https://scontent.***c1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53621284_1227977274027648_577938830938603520_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.***c1-2.fna&oh=cc3c3a383e92bb30a5f17b9d37251e1b&oe=5D1CA668

 

[Tif0ez]

The 02 HAD pats E you are now going to be ADDING the 98 Pats B to the truck. The halo in the steering column from the E system can likely just stay in place.
The result is you have to ground one wire for the starter.
The V8 pcm checks with the PATS B module (behind airbag) to ensure the PATS transponder key is in the halo (steering column) and then it allows the injectors to fire = running engine.

FYI with PATS B we can wire PATS B into a 1976 VW beetle if we wanted to.........or a dune buggy or anything else. My point is it is a stand alone system with like 7 total wires that interface with the vehicle. I have added PATS to a Gen I Ranger, to a 98 Ranger, to 89 BII and others so we could use the stock PCM without a tune, none of these vehicles came with PATS.

There is no difference between the V6 and V8 fuel systems except for addition 2 injectors. Return style runs at 38 psi rail pressure, the returnless runs at 68 psi.
The change is instead of a vacuum regulator on the fuel rail there is a simple regulator in the tank eliminating the return line.

From all my gathered info and from your quote this is what I think I understand..

I pull the DONOR ecu, the PATS unit from behind the airbag, the halo (maybe) in the column and the key to make the PATS B system happy in the '02??
Is this a plug and play operation, or should I start dissecting both harnesses to repin the PATS B system into the '02??

 

[Tif0ez]

Quote from Just1me in that thread:

"What is the build date of your 2001 Sport? The 2001 Sport/Sport Tracs had a early and late 2001 build, the early had Pats B, but all late 2001 had Pats E which is not compatible with Pats B. You would not need to swap columns, but you would need the ignition tumbler, Pats Transceiver, Pats Key, Pats Module, and the wiring between them from the Explorer to wire correctly into your Sport.

Also if your Sport is a late 2001 there is a wire coming from the starter relay that was grounded by the 4.0 PCM for Pats E, it goes through the C110 connector Pin 28 it is Dark Blue/Orange. That wire will need grounded for the V8 swap otherwise your starter will not even crank."

Adding the 98-01 pats stuff into your dash is pretty simple, you can add the halo (if needed) to the ignition cylinder without dropping the column. The 2001 column should already have a halo on the ignition you can just use that with your 98 Pats PCM and pats module behind airbag

You can do this!

Nevermind..
Anyone else ever feel that they have absorbed so much information that when you try to focus on thinking through the entire build you forget that you have answers and have already solved some key issues, OR am I just going crazy?! Please advise!!


I think I am only now trying to sort out the returnless.. I know someone said to just get the rail and injectors from a '99, however on another thread I noticed that the engine wiring harness will not connect to those injectors?? Is this also a repin/rewire situation, or do I also need the engine wiring harness from the returnless donor??

 

[Dono]

Your as crazy as the rest of us. It sounds like you actually have a pretty good idea what you are looking for.

 

[Tif0ez]

Dono, I am way beyond crazy, and it seems like I must always do things the hard way, but GAME ON my friend, this will get built

In this whole adventure, my greatest fear is not that it won't work, but being able to run all of the wiring without having any meltdowns.. I'm very ocd, and will look for both the '98 donor awd expo and the '02 st wiring diagrams and pinouts before I apply power to anything..

It will all work in theory, finding the correct way to apply it is another story

Along with the engine and trans, I will basically need to cram the '98 donor into the ST.. The PATS has to go in, I'm going to swap the rear axle for the disc brakes and the vss signal for the speedo to work, it will be a bunch of work, but worth it in the long run.. I just feel bad for my inspection/emission people, this is gonna blow their minds..

 

[Tif0ez]

I do want to apologize for being so scattered when talking about this build, for the most part I am building everything in my head about what direction to take.. Mostly it'll be "bolt-in" as much as possible, and after everything is in and running, I can then start to modify & upgrade..

Anyone want to weigh in on the awd vs true 4x4? Other than being able to smoke the tires off, lol.. I am leaning on keeping the awd, I felt safer in the awd donor truck over the last year than I've ever felt with my wife driving.. (shh..)

**PATS, we started by pulling the battery, and gathering all of our tools together, letting the donor discharge any remaining juice before we start tinkering with voltage sensitive items.. Tomorrow we will start pulling the ring from the column and the box behind the airbag and the wiring out to the engine bay power distribution block..

**FUEL, the few 5.0 expos we have in our area are older than 99 and all have return style systems, so I've made some calls and sent out some messages.. Today was a great day on the build, it was warm enough for m'luv to come out and wrench with me on Olive.. My wife told me this is her build, and she has helped with most of it

**WIRING, so far I've found the pinout for the '98 5.0 ((not confirmed)) but haven't had any luck on the '02.. Mostly I need to find the changes between the two vehicles and where the systems meet and are plug and play, and the places where I will need to improvise.. I remember reading that I will have to tinker with the signals for the speedo to work correctly..

On the misc. stuff: *driveshafts, until I have the motor, trans, and t-case installed, will I know for sure that I cannot make something work with the 15 or so shafts that I have around here..
*The tach signal will be "wrong" until I repin in two places ((found the thread for the tach))..

I did notice something interesting while wrenching today, the donor 5.0 is equipped for Cali emissions.. I thought this was interesting..

 

[Dono]

Keep an eye on transmission pin out changes.
I think there will be a couple on the engine harness to transmission connector. I could be wrong, but pls check.

 

[Tif0ez]

I definitely will, I started stripping the donor vehicle and separating the systems, their components and the wiring between them ((taking notes on where they route, and where they terminate))..

Until I have all the diagrams and I can mock up the loom on paper, I won't start installing anything, however I did borrow a media blaster and starting cleaning up the engine bay for some paint.. I know I wouldn't feel right if I did all this wrench work to have a dirty engine and bay take away from the complexity and sheer size of the overall build..

I've thought for the longest time that it will kill me the first time someone looks under the hood and has the "ok, what am I looking for" expression, but I realize that in itself will be a compliment because Ford didn't offer this..