I can drive my car in Neutral! (& park feels like it wants to move...?)

I can drive my X in Neutral!

& park feels like it wants to move...?

So, the mystery continues. I know that you cannot really diagnose problems when you replace ten things at once but patience is not one of my better angels.

Model: '91 4WD EB A4LD - 207k miles

Replaced vacuum modulator (new vacuum hose, too), replaced a few broken vacuum lines in engine bay, removed transmission filter (original?) and replaced with Fram microfilter (yes, I'm sure that the o-rings are installed correctly), adjusted bands (120 in/lbs then two full turns out), installed pan drain plug, new pan gasket, torqued to 110 in/lbs., added 4.2 qts. of Mercron III (fluid was low when I drove up the driveway). I saw no loose clips in the pan; the cable seemed correctly installed. I have lots of photos from before during and after.

Last week: No reverse. X would move but would take time before engaging (reverse/low servo seals? they should arrive tomorrow from FL). X barely made it up the steep driveway. Fluid smelled burned after driving it up the driveway. Fluid was low; I think only 1.5 quarts came out of pan.

Now: X wants to move when in park and drives around quite nicely while in Neutral. Oh, drives forward a bit while in reverse, now, too. Huh? Drove quite easily up the steep driveway. First gear no longer takes forever to engage. Shifts are very soft; IMO, hard to tell when in second or third. I think that first and second are working 'okay' (compared to last week anyway) but it shifts to mush when it goes into third. If I stomp on it, it hooks up adequately. If I let off and then apply light throttle (say at 30mph on flat ground, I presume in 3rd) its a slushbox. If I put it in 1st at 25mph, it will shift down and rev the engine. Oh, neutral works just fine if you turn the engine off. Fluid no longer smells burned but will drain pan again when I do the low/reverse servo seals.

I didn't expect Rev. to work until I replace the reverse/low servo seals (tomorrow night or Sat.). I have not checked the VB bolts torque; no manual yet and not sure what the torque values are.

I think that I may have under-tightened one of the bands (the one towards the front of the car; I think the overdrive band?). That adjustment bolt was really rusty. Leaving the bolt in the trans., I cleaned a lot of the rust off with a wire wheel on a dremel, then soaked it in PB blaster. Then ran the locknut over it a few times (hard work, it was pretty rusty). I then tightened the adjuster to 120 in/lbs. but may have under-tightened due to the rust on the threads. I assume that I cannot take the bolt out to run a tap over it; as an alternative, can I take the lock nut off and run the tap while the adjuster is still in there? What size tap? Hmmm...., I don't think that will help on the portion of threads that's IN the transmission body (e.g., the threads that are messing up the adjustment torque).

I understand the 'no reverse' issue but I do not get the driving forward in Neutral along with wanting to move while in park.

I mean this seriously, take it to AAMCO.

Get their free diagnostic and then decide who will fix it them or you or someone else.

Joseph.

An A4LD that will move in gears other than selected either has serious linkage issues, or has lost the Z link hookup or has a manual valve that has a HUGELY elongated hole in it. If it will move in PARK it is a linkage issue.

ps. DO not remove the band adjusting bolt. The band adjuster inside will drop into the pan, It CAN BE REPLACED BUT IT IS A MAJOR pita FROM UNDER THE VEHICLE.

My Z-link is good; what's an elongated Manual Valve hole?

My Z-link was hooked up just fine; it looked just like your photo (Glacier991 photo: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155599&highlight=manual+valve)

Hugely elongated manual valve hole? Do you mean an oval bore or an elongated hole where the Z-link fits into the valve itself? If you meant "b", the hole in the valve where the Z-link fits is pretty snug.

I just took the VB off a few minutes ago and cleaned off the gasket which was hard & brittle, not much fun.

Held VB upside down to remove the 4 balls (where do I get the fifth one as suggested by TransGo? Ford?) and a square keeper fell out. Aren't all the keepers supposed to be under pressure by a spring? No valve and spring came shooting out. I'm expecting that one or more of the valves is stuck, broken, and/or full of crud; this might have been the one.

Will go fish around some more.

btw, I installed the low/reverse servo Viton seals this morning and the new servo spring from the Transgo kit. Snug fit but no improvement (seeings as though my Reverse is now a forwards gear along with all the other gear settings). That problem may have masked the improvement from the Viton seals.

I can send you a 5th check ball..... but that is not your issue.... very curious.

Nothing broken or stuck; darn.

Ran around the VB looking for something broken or stuck; nada. Two of the valves were sticky when pushed to the max; the throttle boost valve and 1-2 shift valve. Ran over those two valves with wet 1000 grit sandpaper (couldn't find my two new packages of 2000 grit; figures).

Will do the upgrades and hole drilling tomorrow.

Tested both the solenoids: both were at about .3 [Edit: should be "around 30"] ohms and both would go clunk when given 12 volts. I didn't see anything move when I applied voltage; do they only move internally? Could a bad TCC solenoid cause my problem of always being in a forward gear?

For grins, I also tested the TSP: .92 volts at no throttle and about 4.8v at WOT (key on, engine off). That sounds correct.

There are a few different sizes of these check balls. I think that your linkage might be out of adjustment, or that manual slide valve might have worn away a little of the internal bore on the VB like Glacier said. First start with the linkage adjustment. Did you have this problem right after you adjusted the bands? There were 2 types of bands, the single wrap, and the double wrap. If you make the double wrap 2 turns instead of 3 1/2 turns, then it would be too tight, and might be causing some of these problems. The drums that hold the clutch packs would be engaging too early, and would throw off everything.

single wrap vs. double wrap; what's a 1991 A4LD 4WD?

Short answer: "yes"

Slightly longer answer: Yes, but when I bought the X the fluid was off by so much that I mentally scrapped all of the transmission behavior prior to the first fluid drain, filter change, and band adjustment. In retrospect I should have done the band adjustment as stage two and not combined so many changes in one go around; then I would have looked at the results of the band adjustment more carefully.

My transmission is a 1991 4WD. Is that a double wrap and I should have turned the bolts 3.5 turns out? Hmmm.... I will need to dig through my piles of printouts on the A4LD and the manual that just arrived.

Sounds like this is a double wrap; that makes more sense than anything else I've done.

Well, this way I will get a nice, clean VB out of the deal.

Anyone know of a test for the solenoids?

btw, I goofed up on the ohms results for the two solenoids in a recent prior posting (its really late). The red bottom solenoid shows 27 ohms and the black bottom one shows 30 ohms. The red bottom one has a pronounced klunk when given voltage, the black bottom one has only a slight klunk.

1991 = double wrap = 3.5 turns out to adjust one of the bands (NOT 2 turns)

Looking over Glacier991's A4LD rebuild, Vol III, Part 2, page 3, post #53, he mentioned under "Band Adjustment" that
"There are 2 adjustable bands - the intermediate and OD. The process is exactly the same for both - up to 91, with the double wrap band - (abandoned by FORD in 92) there was a difference, but since we are not going to use the double wrap, it is IDENTICAL for both)."

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113354&page=3&pp=20 (scroll down to post no. 53)

So the 1991 has at least one DOUBLE WRAP band and the correct number of turns out to adjust that band(s) is 3.5 turns and not 2 turns. I'm ordering the two sonnax VB upgrades and will not be able to test this until later this week.

So which band gets 3.5 turns? Both?

Hope I didn't ruin anything by driving a few miles with the bands too tight.

Thanks BrooklynBay and Glacier!

I am not certain that the 91 Explorers used the double wrap band. I wish I could be more definitive on this but I cannot. I would start with the assumption that they did not, instead of assuming they did. I'd stay with the 2 turns out adjustment for BOTH unless something seems amiss with the OD. The intermediate has always been 2 turns out, btw.

Your solenoids sound fine to me. I was pondering your issues, and wondered about cross leaks in the VB somehow causing your symptoms.

dried out VB gasket, VB solenoid test(s), & band adjustments

The VB gasket was hard as a rock; literally. I've not worked on auto transmissions b4 but I have worked on motorbikes and Toyotas for 20+ years (not my profession but a major hobby) and that VB gasket was one of the most brittle I've seen to date.

I'm pretty sure that I don't need the VB solenoids but you'ld be able to hear me yelling in Sacramento if I didn't replace them and one or both were bad. Does the fact that they go 'klunk' when powered by 12v indicate that they are okay? I've yet to find an 'off the VB' test for these anywhere. Is there an ohms test that you know of? Mine were both around 30 ohms.

re: band adjustment. I cannot say with clarity that the problem arose only after I adjusted the two bands to 2 turns out. Wish I would say one way or the other but there were too many other things wrong at that point to derive much info. Is there any risk of backing the OD band out to 3.5 turns? That's not far enough to have anything fall out on my nose, is it?

Glacier991: I read in one of your early A4LD (pre-diary) that you initially planned to have the VB surfaced. Did you do that? Also, were there any TransGo modifications that you did not do? (you also once mentioned that you were going to do "MOST" of the listed modifications; forget where I read that).

I did not surface the VB. I do plan to get a machinist's flat and then using sandpaper start doing that, but instead in the case of that first rebuild I did in the Diary I just used a known flat straight edge (borrowed from a machine shop) and eyeballed it with a flashlight shining from the reverse side. It looked fine.

As for 3.5 turns on the OD band, nothing will fall out, but if you want to err, err on tight, not too loose. You can burn and glaze the band if it is too loose. My gut instinct is that the 91 EX had the single wrap band and that 2 turns is the correct amount.

The A4LD solenoids are simple plunger on/off types. FORD used the "click test" as a functional test, along with measuring resistance of the coils. Yours pass in all repsects. In the 4R and 5R we went to two modulated solenoids (TCC and EPC - the 4 shift solenoids are all on/off like the 4LD), and those still test in a basic way the same, but the definitive test is done with pressure and modulated current being applied and then measuring the output pressures. Not something a DIY'er is likely to be able to do. Hence I recommend to 4R and 5R people with their tranny pans off and having in excess of 100K miles on those transmissions to replace the EPC while they are in there.

I'm still at a loss to explain your symptoms, other than possible cross leaking in the VB at the sep plate. (I suppose your forward clutch could be in essence welded together internally, but that's kind of a wild guess). Keep us posted.

solenoid replacement

I'll keep the $20 then. That will buy 1/2 of one new Monroe Sensa-Trac (picking up 4 on the way home today).

I might try 3.5 turns out on the OD band for one test drive just for grins.

I looked in the update manual, and it only gave information on the OD band. It said that the double wrap band was used from 1990-1992. Some time in 92, they changed back to the single wrap band, so it could be either a double, or single in that year.

OR..... $20 can buy ya Elite membership here! <grin>. It's a great site and Elites help pay for the bandwidth to keep this site afloat. Best advice you ever got for $20!

By all means try the 3.5 turns. Especially after reading Brooklyn's post, I honestly just do not know what you are dealing with there, but stand by my initial advice.

punishment for not ordering the update manual

BrooklynBay said:

I looked in the update manual, and it only gave information on the OD band. It said that the double wrap band was used from 1990-1992.....<snip>

Click to expand...

Ha! That's what I get for not ordering the update manual.

I've been spoiled by Bentley and factory toyota manuals; the A4LD manual is a bit hard to read IMHO.

Let me first say the manuals you are looking at are NOT FORD factory manuals. I have those and they make it look like a coloring book. Is it valuable? By all means, but it ain't a FORD factory manual for the A4LD.... which is 3 ring binder with hundred of pages of info with actual photographs... Unfortunately it does not offer us help here on this issue.

IF (and I suspect you may) end up rebuilding yours, I can loan you a real FORD factory manual for the job.

Comparing what you have to the FORD manual is like comparing a Chiltons on the Bentley to the Bentley manual.

Oh!

he said sheepishly. So the A4LD manual and update that's not from Ford (maybe 100 pages or so each) should be looked at as a compliment to the factory Ford Manual? That would make sense. Come to think of it, I did see a set of factory Explorer manuals in 3-ring binders for sale on eBay the other day. Large set; I think they went for something like $80 or so plus shipping. Don't remember if that included the transmission or just the engine, body, and brakes.

Those Bentley manuals are pretty darned cool (Bentley brand manuals, not Bentley the car; I drive BMW cars and Toyota trucks).

Does Bentley make domestic manuals as well as foreign manuals?