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Info: Fuel Octane 101

NoLimit4E

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'91 XLT
I was wondering if using high octane gas in older cars actually hurt the car.....I have a 1991 and wondering if a high octane gas would hurt performance of the truck or would it be better for it?
 



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OCTANE 101

Here's a couple tid-bits

Some people call 87 octane "CHEAP" gas. They're right in regards to the price verses the other grades. However, it's not "CHEAP" in regards to the job it has to do.

The higher the octane the higher the "FLASH" point meaning the harder it is for the fuel to ignite. The lower the octane, the more volitile it becomes. Most all vehicles are designed to run on 87 octane because they all have a low compression ratio which means you need a bigger faster flame front to occur in the cylinder. The higher the compression ration, or the more timing advance beyond factory setting, then the higher the octane one needs to go to eliminate the "PING" monster (pre-ignition).

If you run high octane in a non modified vehicle, the normal outcone is less power and less MPG due to the slower burn rate of the fuel. This is due to the occurance of "DELAYED BURN" causing a slow flame front to occur in the cylinder. Some people will claim that they get more HP and MPG running a higher than needed octane "NOT". If I just spend .20+ more per gallon, I would have to justify it somehow, thus I would tell myself that it's instant power and MPG. it just doesn't work that way.

If you have a stock engine and it is pinging all the time and goes away with the use of a higher octane, then you need to fix the problem that exists. Either a timing issue, lean mix, vacuum leak, carbon build up in the piston area affecting the "SQUISH" zone and so on. A light/smild pinging under a load such as climing a hill before a downshift is normal and just means that the engine is running at optimum efficiency.

It's not even needed to clean the fuel system out as all of the fuels today have detergents in them (mandated by the EPA seveal years ago) to keep the injectors clean from varnish build up.

And the winter time makes it even worse. I don't know how many times that I've helped people get their vehicles started because they were running "SUPER UNLEADED" when it wasn't required. The darn things just don't like to fire.

Hope this helps somewhat.:)
 






Wow, that explanation should be stickied!
 






wow thanks thats a great expectation i didn't think that it help i thought that it would hurt the car but people have been telling me that its better for performance
 






Made sticky so more people will see it..

This was a good/simple explanation of octane...

~Mark
 


















Here is a couple of more of my own tidbits… I have always felt this way and did quite a bit of reading on the topic of fuels. Unfortunately I have not found any well designed tests with data proving anything.

The octane rating describes the fuels properties to resist detonation and pre-ignition. That is it. The other fuel properties [BTU’s, how volatile, flame speed, flash point, etc] are related to the entire blend of the fuel, not the octane rating solely. Higher octane fuels DO NOT necessarily contain less energy or burn slower. I assume it is easy to guess incorrectly because if one were to add dense aromatics to the fuel in order to raise the octane you “could” lower the energy per unit of the fuel. Fact is there are 87 octane fuels containing higher BTU’s per unit than 93 octane fuels and vice versa.

The Flash Point for gasoline is <-40 [F or C as they are the same at that temp]. If you go to this link which contains the MSDS sheets for certain fuels you will see that most fuels have the same flash point listed for their regular, mid-grade and premium fuels.

http://hazard.com/msds/gn.cgi?query=gasoline

Even if the flash point varied, a good spark plug being fired by a healthy ignition system is not going to have any problem igniting the a/f mixture regardless of it being 87 or 93 octane. Besides, gasoline is blended differently depending upon geographical location and season. The Reid Vapor Pressure of the fuel is the property that would have the consequences of hard starting or vapor lock if the temperature and RVP were not compatible. Seriously, think about it. If high octane fuel was blended in a way where it made cold weather starts difficult it would inconvenience all who own vehicles that require high octane fuel. I doubt that is the case.

Originally posted by SWLathrop
The higher the octane the higher the "FLASH" point meaning the harder it is for the fuel to ignite. The lower the octane, the more volitile it becomes. Most all vehicles are designed to run on 87 octane because they all have a low compression ratio which means you need a bigger faster flame front to occur in the cylinder. The higher the compression ration, or the more timing advance beyond factory setting, then the higher the octane one needs to go to eliminate the "PING" monster (pre-ignition).

Harder for the fuel to ignite in what circumstance? I would agree if were discussing a welding crew in the vicinity of fuel. As far as your “healthy” ignition system goes there should be no noticeably differences igniting 87 or 93. The engines in question have low compression ratio’s because the are low horsepower engines with long term reliability in mind. Advanced timing at lower rpm’s requires higher octane fuel because there is more time for detonation to occur as the a/f mixture is ignited earlier. I will agree that different fuel will have different ignition timing points that are optimal but it is dependant on many variables, not just the octane of the fuel.

And the winter time makes it even worse. I don't know how many times that I've helped people get their vehicles started because they were running "SUPER UNLEADED" when it wasn't required. The darn things just don't like to fire.

I disagree with this statement the most. Seasonal blends of fuel are made by the manufactures. If someone is experiencing cold weather starting issues it is related to something other that the fuel octane ran.
In closing I run 87 in my ‘X’ but only purchase gas from companies such as Chveron, Shell, Exxon-Mobil, etc…. I do not buy gas from ‘Mr. Gas’ or ‘Gas City.’
You should all read the book High Performance Fuels and Fluids. It is very informative. Unfortunately, nothing will convince me 100% until I see data from a well set up test.
 






Has there been a poll in the "poll forum" about fuel octane?

This is a complicated subject.
 






One word:

Compression: higher the compression the higher the octane
In actuality as your veh gets older your compression lowers, due to wear etc.
So lower octane as your veh ages if anything.
 






I don't want to burst anybodys bubble, but 90% of the gasoline sold in America is supplied by common carrier pipelines. That means that gasoline is gasoline. The Exon, Shell and mom and pop stores get their gasoline from the same source.
 






it is but then the companies add there indivual additives to them
 






True! That was a question on some show that I saw a while back! The question was: How can it be that one ship delivers ALL the gasoline to Hawaii but there are different brands of gasoline sold there? The answer was that the companies add their own additives to make up their own brand of gasoline!
 






Yea sure they do. The additives leave the refinery with the gasoline.
 






Re: Fuel Octane

Originally posted by NoLimit4E
i was wondering if using high octane gas in older cars actually hurt the car.....i have a 91 and wondering if a high octane gas would hurt performance of the truck or would it be better for it

I have run High Octane in a '91 and '96 all of the time with no ill affects. I believe Higher Octane does give more power. I've experienced this as well as been told this. The higher Octane burns slower and longer giving better kick to the pistons creating more power. Back when leaded fuel was still used the minium octane was about 103, or somewhere around there, much higher than todays fuel anyway. Also Higher octane will burn a little cooler which is better for the engine.
 






Ok, go ahead and clog your injectors, foul your plugs, cats, and O2 sensors, and carbon your intake tract.
 






Just run some injector cleaner through every once in a while like you should anyway and you'll be fine. Like I said I've been doing this for years, and don't run injector cleaner through that often with no problems.
 






Re: Re: Fuel Octane

Originally posted by briwayjones
I have run High Octane in a '91 and '96 all of the time with no ill affects. I believe Higher Octane does give more power. I've experienced this as well as been told this. The higher Octane burns slower and longer giving better kick to the pistons creating more power. Back when leaded fuel was still used the minium octane was about 103, or somewhere around there, much higher than todays fuel anyway. Also Higher octane will burn a little cooler which is better for the engine.

the flame speed of the fuel is not effected by octane.

you want peak cylinder pressure to occur ~ 15 after TDC. that being stated the only advantage of a premium fuel over regular would be if the optimum ignition timing for the regular fuel to create peak cylinder pressure resulted in "knock" or "detonation"

anyway, if you ass dyno can feel the power difference between 87 and 93 [which is not there unless you were experiencing knock] you should quite your job and and become a tuner... :rolleyes:
 






You have an automatic Explorer don't you? It takes a significant power increase to notice a difference in a vehicle with an automatic transmission due to the slipping in the transmission. I have a manual Explorer where minute power differences are much more noticable.

I disagree, I believe the flame speed is affected by Octane, that's what higher Octane fuel is, and the purpose of it, slower burning, that is one way it prevents knock.
 



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I don't want to burst anybodys bubble, but 90% of the gasoline sold in America is supplied by common carrier pipelines. That means that gasoline is gasoline. The Exon, Shell and mom and pop stores get their gasoline from the same source.

This is DEAD wrong. Exxon sells nothing but Exxon Gas, Shell sells nothing but Shell Gas, Chevron sells nothing but Chevron Gas. Aka, Exxon Refinery - Baytown Texas. Shell Refinery - Deer Park, Texas and so on.

Where did you get your facts? I know the "true difference" in ALL gasolines. I have sit in the labs watching the lab techs run RVP's, distallations, etc. I have been surveying Gasolines now for 20+ years. Where does the gas go that Valero Refinery makes? I will tell you, that gas along with off spec gasoline goes to the Mom & Pops. That is why there gasoline is "Cheaper". End of discussion....

HotDogs, gasoline sniffer and tester!!!
 






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