00 OHV Galloping like a 3 legged drunk

[Fenrir]

I would have popped a new MAF sensor on....

Well I've got a week until the guy she knows can look at it, so I've got plenty of time to go and find one and get it on there

 

[EB4X]

/\ LINK: MAF

 

[lane408]

I've got an 00 Sport, it started acting up almost two years ago so I mothballed it and dumped some cash into my horrible little Pontiac. Horrible Pontiac is on it's last legs so I'm trying to dig back into the Exploder.
Change in running was sudden, coming up the hill one night something went screwy and it started idling really rough and misfiring, it gallops and rattles like a 3 legged drunk who's 10 minutes late to happy hour, it's like driving on a washed out dirt road... when driving on nice smooth blacktop.
Since it was over due for a tuneup I just started doing a process of elimination and did plugs, wires and coil one weekend, no change so I took it to one mechanic thinking I'd just pay someone else to fix it. He kept it a week before throwing his hands up and having me come get it (also tried to get me to buy one of his referb used cars he likes to sell), he said it could be exhaust related so I took it to one of the best exhaust shops in town, they scratched their heads, swapped a couple of parts that weren't terribly likely culprits, quoted me 3k to swap out the O2 sensors, then let it sit in their back lot for 3 months doing nothing with it before being kind enough to clear the codes out of the computer before I picked it up the day I finally got irritated enough to go and tell them I was taking it home now one way or another.
If memory serves it WAS throwing code for an upstream O2 sensor, I've been told by multiple more mechanically inclined folks that O2 would not make it run the way it is, so I'm kind of at a loss and really hoping someone might be able to point me at something stupid and relatively easy to try next.
Under 3k RPMs it runs like absolute ass. Oil pressure gage hops occasionally at idle especially when it's actively trying to stall. Over 3k RPM it runs smooth as butter.
IAC valve was replaced roughly a year before it went belly up, had another valve replaced around the same time and for the life of me I can't remember what the heck it was.
Has a Cat that's on it's way out but it still has good flow through.
Smells a little like sulfur from time to time, smells like it's cooking something plastic or electrical other times.
Occasional smoke/steam from under hood after coming up to running temps, can't seem to pinpoint the source.
Was smoked to check for vacuum leaks, none detected (or so they told me)
I've since talked to another mechanic who said to just drive it until it throws code again, I'm loathe to do this because of how poorly it's running, and how badly the exhaust is coming into the cabin (back glass needs a new hinge).
Any ideas? Thoughts? Anyone in/near Colorado Springs that would be willing to help a lady out? (my tool box is in Storage in Pueblo so my hands are kind of tied on DIY stuff)

Upstream O2's will definitely cause it to run like crap. Your upstream O2's measure your A/F ratio and adjusts fueling based on its reading. If they tell the ECU the wrong reading it can dump or deprive fuel.

 

[91Rustbucket]

I've got an 00 Sport, it started acting up almost two years ago so I mothballed it and dumped some cash into my horrible little Pontiac. Horrible Pontiac is on it's last legs so I'm trying to dig back into the Exploder.
Change in running was sudden, coming up the hill one night something went screwy and it started idling really rough and misfiring, it gallops and rattles like a 3 legged drunk who's 10 minutes late to happy hour, it's like driving on a washed out dirt road... when driving on nice smooth blacktop.
Since it was over due for a tuneup I just started doing a process of elimination and did plugs, wires and coil one weekend, no change so I took it to one mechanic thinking I'd just pay someone else to fix it. He kept it a week before throwing his hands up and having me come get it (also tried to get me to buy one of his referb used cars he likes to sell), he said it could be exhaust related so I took it to one of the best exhaust shops in town, they scratched their heads, swapped a couple of parts that weren't terribly likely culprits, quoted me 3k to swap out the O2 sensors, then let it sit in their back lot for 3 months doing nothing with it before being kind enough to clear the codes out of the computer before I picked it up the day I finally got irritated enough to go and tell them I was taking it home now one way or another.
If memory serves it WAS throwing code for an upstream O2 sensor, I've been told by multiple more mechanically inclined folks that O2 would not make it run the way it is, so I'm kind of at a loss and really hoping someone might be able to point me at something stupid and relatively easy to try next.
Under 3k RPMs it runs like absolute ass. Oil pressure gage hops occasionally at idle especially when it's actively trying to stall. Over 3k RPM it runs smooth as butter.
IAC valve was replaced roughly a year before it went belly up, had another valve replaced around the same time and for the life of me I can't remember what the heck it was.
Has a Cat that's on it's way out but it still has good flow through.
Smells a little like sulfur from time to time, smells like it's cooking something plastic or electrical other times.
Occasional smoke/steam from under hood after coming up to running temps, can't seem to pinpoint the source.
Was smoked to check for vacuum leaks, none detected (or so they told me)
I've since talked to another mechanic who said to just drive it until it throws code again, I'm loathe to do this because of how poorly it's running, and how badly the exhaust is coming into the cabin (back glass needs a new hinge).
Any ideas? Thoughts? Anyone in/near Colorado Springs that would be willing to help a lady out? (my tool box is in Storage in Pueblo so my hands are kind of tied on DIY stuff)

I had a similar problem a few years ago and it was the fuel pressure regulator. Which was like a $50 fix and pretty easy.

 

[EB4X]

P0102-C MAF circuit low

P0102 MAF low voltage

 

[iajet]

I recently had a misfire in #6, wild idling up and down 500 RPM, and just a rough running engine. The culprit was the EGR vacuum solenoid.

Hope it is something simple, good luck.

 

[gush]

I've got an 00 Sport, it started acting up almost two years ago so I mothballed it and dumped some cash into my horrible little Pontiac. Horrible Pontiac is on it's last legs so I'm trying to dig back into the Exploder.
Change in running was sudden, coming up the hill one night something went screwy and it started idling really rough and misfiring, it gallops and rattles like a 3 legged drunk who's 10 minutes late to happy hour, it's like driving on a washed out dirt road... when driving on nice smooth blacktop.
Since it was over due for a tuneup I just started doing a process of elimination and did plugs, wires and coil one weekend, no change so I took it to one mechanic thinking I'd just pay someone else to fix it. He kept it a week before throwing his hands up and having me come get it (also tried to get me to buy one of his referb used cars he likes to sell), he said it could be exhaust related so I took it to one of the best exhaust shops in town, they scratched their heads, swapped a couple of parts that weren't terribly likely culprits, quoted me 3k to swap out the O2 sensors, then let it sit in their back lot for 3 months doing nothing with it before being kind enough to clear the codes out of the computer before I picked it up the day I finally got irritated enough to go and tell them I was taking it home now one way or another.
If memory serves it WAS throwing code for an upstream O2 sensor, I've been told by multiple more mechanically inclined folks that O2 would not make it run the way it is, so I'm kind of at a loss and really hoping someone might be able to point me at something stupid and relatively easy to try next.
Under 3k RPMs it runs like absolute ass. Oil pressure gage hops occasionally at idle especially when it's actively trying to stall. Over 3k RPM it runs smooth as butter.
IAC valve was replaced roughly a year before it went belly up, had another valve replaced around the same time and for the life of me I can't remember what the heck it was.
Has a Cat that's on it's way out but it still has good flow through.
Smells a little like sulfur from time to time, smells like it's cooking something plastic or electrical other times.
Occasional smoke/steam from under hood after coming up to running temps, can't seem to pinpoint the source.
Was smoked to check for vacuum leaks, none detected (or so they told me)
I've since talked to another mechanic who said to just drive it until it throws code again, I'm loathe to do this because of how poorly it's running, and how badly the exhaust is coming into the cabin (back glass needs a new hinge).
Any ideas? Thoughts? Anyone in/near Colorado Springs that would be willing to help a lady out? (my tool box is in Storage in Pueblo so my hands are kind of tied on DIY stuff)

Very clearly written! It truly is a problem and I suspect it is the same way all fords get when they reached their time of obsolescence. I have a a1999 explorer( 4DOOR) This surely sound like an wiring problem, I think, wires are losing their good connections, I think. The car has a mind of its own when this hapens. I know that I am little help but I went through it when my wipers started to become irratic, I finally ran a wire around the original circuits from ford from the battery through a switch I installed on the center console and hotwired the motor fro the wipers directly through the new switch. FORD , maybe every car, keeps getting worse after you start having problems . If you fix your problem you can expect more in the future, sorry to say. I think something electrical is causing you the problem.On my car there were no parts available to fix the problem unless you go to the junkyard. Very convenient for ford. There was a reacll on this problem but naturally my VIN was NOT included in the recall!

 

[J_C]

^ Most Ford connectors have an insert you can pop out to clean contacts or insert a new contact. That plus replacing a faulty wire run between point A and B where the problem is (which you can pinpoint using a multimeter to see where power stops), makes it mostly unnecessary to have a *new* part supplied to fix something like that.

The only common wiring problem I recall on these is when the lock/window wires in the door jam boot start to fray, and the less common multi-function switch connector contacts pulling out, or that wire fraying if the tilt steering is adjusted much.

If you have a lot more electrical problems than that, I'd suspect it was either a flood vehicle or has been getting pretty dirty off-roading, or possibly rodents are gnawing away at wiring, or a more generic problem common on many different vehicles like a bad battery clamp or ground somewhere.

With that much stated, unplugging, examining and replugging the two big wiring harness connectors under the hood is certainly something to try for the problems posted about in this topic so thanks for reminding me of that!

2nd gen issues? Try this first!

Sometimes a gremlin can be caused by the smallest thing. There are 2 large wire bundle connectors on the firewall. Both are held tight with a 10mm bolt. Any bad connection in either plug can cause just about any issue. from bad transmission shifting, bad o2 sensor readings, no start, no...

www.explorerforum.com

 

[J_C]

Upstream O2's will definitely cause it to run like crap. Your upstream O2's measure your A/F ratio and adjusts fueling based on its reading. If they tell the ECU the wrong reading it can dump or deprive fuel.

Or if the O2 reading is too far out of bounds, it can make the ECU revert to open loop mode where it runs a richer fuel mix yet not run as bad as has been stated, so not necessarily a "will definitely" cause this.

In that case there should be an O2 sensor, OBD2 code set, or if not that bad yet, should still alter the realtime data, long term fuel trim, but long term fuel trim being out of bounds by itself is not limited to an O2 sensor as the only potential cause, could also/instead be a vac leak, bad/dirty MAF sensor, or low fuel pressure for example.

 

[C420sailor]

Yeah, I’ve actually had a misfiring problem that was so bad that the truck reverted to OL and then ran great. Made it very hard to troubleshoot.

 

[Fenrir]

Horrible Pontiac decided that it would attempt to give up the ghost today, got it going again, sort of, I'm not going to be able to do any scrap yard runs for the time being and I'm not exactly in town so I'm kind of stuck sitting on my hands.
I could order a new MAF sensor to be delivered to the house, and I may yet, but I have a sinking feeling it's going to be more complicated than that, simply because if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all. Though I suppose that managing to kick Horrible Pontiac back to life counts as a bit of good luck.
No decisions of any kind tonight, It's been a rotten day and I'm doing good to keep my head on straight.
Tomorrow I'll contemplate ordering a MAF sensor. Sadly my multimeter and the rest of my good tools are in storage 40 miles away and Horrible Pontiac is definitely not making it that far.

 

[C420sailor]

Check your signal voltage at the MAF connector.

 

[AnnaBeth]

I've got an 00 Sport, it started acting up almost two years ago so I mothballed it and dumped some cash into my horrible little Pontiac. Horrible Pontiac is on it's last legs so I'm trying to dig back into the Exploder.
Change in running was sudden, coming up the hill one night something went screwy and it started idling really rough and misfiring, it gallops and rattles like a 3 legged drunk who's 10 minutes late to happy hour, it's like driving on a washed out dirt road... when driving on nice smooth blacktop.
Since it was over due for a tuneup I just started doing a process of elimination and did plugs, wires and coil one weekend, no change so I took it to one mechanic thinking I'd just pay someone else to fix it. He kept it a week before throwing his hands up and having me come get it (also tried to get me to buy one of his referb used cars he likes to sell), he said it could be exhaust related so I took it to one of the best exhaust shops in town, they scratched their heads, swapped a couple of parts that weren't terribly likely culprits, quoted me 3k to swap out the O2 sensors, then let it sit in their back lot for 3 months doing nothing with it before being kind enough to clear the codes out of the computer before I picked it up the day I finally got irritated enough to go and tell them I was taking it home now one way or another.
If memory serves it WAS throwing code for an upstream O2 sensor, I've been told by multiple more mechanically inclined folks that O2 would not make it run the way it is, so I'm kind of at a loss and really hoping someone might be able to point me at something stupid and relatively easy to try next.
Under 3k RPMs it runs like absolute ass. Oil pressure gage hops occasionally at idle especially when it's actively trying to stall. Over 3k RPM it runs smooth as butter.
IAC valve was replaced roughly a year before it went belly up, had another valve replaced around the same time and for the life of me I can't remember what the heck it was.
Has a Cat that's on it's way out but it still has good flow through.
Smells a little like sulfur from time to time, smells like it's cooking something plastic or electrical other times.
Occasional smoke/steam from under hood after coming up to running temps, can't seem to pinpoint the source.
Was smoked to check for vacuum leaks, none detected (or so they told me)
I've since talked to another mechanic who said to just drive it until it throws code again, I'm loathe to do this because of how poorly it's running, and how badly the exhaust is coming into the cabin (back glass needs a new hinge).
Any ideas? Thoughts? Anyone in/near Colorado Springs that would be willing to help a lady out? (my tool box is in Storage in Pueblo so my hands are kind of tied on DIY stuff)

this sounds familiar. I had a 2010 Escape with similar symptoms. It was the throttle body, that had a recall. It was replaced 2x.

 

[CJYoung]

Update: Putting everything on my end on hold for a day or two. My Granny has been up my butt all morning to take it to this little bitty shop she knows here in town, she told, not asked, straight told me that she'll be here in ten minutes to bring me home after taking it in, so I guess I'm taking it in
She's determined, I think partially due to the fact that in her world cars are "man stuff", I'm not going to argue with her, if she's that bent on paying for a diagnostic at this guy's shop I'll just let it happen, she may be 90 but that little whisp of a woman is a force to be reckoned with lol
Will post an update the second they tell me anything, or when they give up and call me to come get it.

Unfortunately for you, but your dilemma has become an interesting story to follow. Reminds me of movie "Tune in Tomorrow"

 

[96eb96]

STOP!
If you have a laptop Download forscan for the PC (not android, unless you want to pay). It is fully featured. If not, I think you are limited to one PID at a time.

I want this information:

1. I am aware of your MAF codes, but curious about the BARO pid (forscan will have this), under the PCM. This is computed by a complex equation that also takes into account flow thru the exhaust and health of your MAF. It computes the actual Barometric pressure (not the adjusted one from the weather report, but close). It also works as as a primitive altimeter, and has to be within a certain narrow range based on your altitude. The units are Hz or mmHg. (sea level, normal, should be 159Hz, goes down as altitude goes up). For Information only, MAF Contamination - Ford F150 Forum. If you disconnected the battery, you have to do a few near WOTs to reset the number.
2. Voltage of the MAF sensor at idle and higher RPM. (is it dead???) or just low.
3. Freeze frame data for the PIDs. It can tell you the conditions where the problem was detected (rpm, is the car warm, etc)
4. If you can, perform a snap throttle test (don't go too crazy). Hit the gas and watch the voltage waveform on the scan tool. It should have a quick peak and go down fast.
5. Fuel pressure PID at idle and high RPM
6. Long term and short term fuel trim at idle. Any scan tool in the last 20 years should have this info. It should be close to zero. Higher numbers mean fuel is added (e.g. a vacuum leak, egr issue, or bad maf telling lies). Neg numbers mean fuel being subtracted (e.g. a leaky fuel injector).
7. Now raise it to 1500rpm and give those numbers. (A major change from idle here can indicate vacuum leak issues)
8. Now raise it to 2500rpm and give those numbers. (this can tell you about fuel delivery issues)

I am not sure this is the problem, but on my 96 I can see misfire data for each cylinder with forscan. I am curious about that. These engines have issues with microcracks in the head. There are ways to fix that.

 

[MakinJeepsWeep!]

Has anyone had you look at the egr valve? o2s can do some messed up stuff but more often than not its some other issue making the o2 read off unless there really bad.

 

[96eb96]

Has anyone had you look at the egr valve? o2s can do some messed up stuff but more often than not its some other issue making the o2 read off unless there really bad.

Yes, my egr valve leaked thru the pintle. If you let out some propane around the base of the valve, the fuel trims would drop. Very subtle issue.

 

[Fenrir]

EGR and associated gasket is relatively new, maybe ran 8mos to a year after replace before the Explorer started trying to go belly up.
Much as I'd love to get Forscan on something other than my phone I've got a big heavy PC and no laptop, while I'm sure I could get it close enough to the house to connect wirelessly to my computer, in it's current state I have zero faith in it's ability to get back over the bushes in reverse, plus you know... I'd like to be able to drive it again, and if my Grandmother saw that I'd murdered her mother's rose bushes I definitely won't live long enough to drive it ever again, she may be tiny but she's vicious. If the roses were ones I'd planted instead of ones planted nearly 100 years ago I'd run em over and not think twice
Tuesday comes soon enough, and I'm REALLY hoping this guy I'm taking it to will be more useful than the other folks who have looked at it for me.
I'll definitely keep you guys updated, in the mean time please pray to the holy V8 for me, I feel like I'm going to need the attention of the mightiest of car gods.

 

[J_C]

Even with the free version of Forscan on android doing only one PID, i'd see what the long term fuel trim is while running. That won't tell you the cause but will possibly narrow down suspects.

 

[Fenrir]

Monday update has nothing to do with the Explorer and everything to do with HP, Horrible Pontiac, since some folks are interested in or entertained by the Saga of Shelby's Cars™.
HP has had a host of mostly annoying intermittent electrical issues since the day I paid way too dang much for it, one of the more irritating ones being that on hot days it decides at random that turn signals are only for people who don't know hand signals, and wouldn't you know I was in the last class at my high school that got to take driver's ed from the ancient former coach who taught it, and he was all about rules and things that might come in handy one day so of course I know hand signals. The AC has never really worked so it's never been that big of an issue because my windows are always down, and the signals always come back at some point either mid drive or after parking it for a few minutes.
This morning it's colder than a witch's tit in a brass bra, my hands were already frozen because I'm too stubborn to start the furnace up until it gets miserably cold inside at night... HP decided that today was a fine day to experiment with having electrical issues in the cold, so instead of receiving blinking lights when flipping the nifty lever that produces them I got screaming static out of the factory tweeters instead. The static instead of blinking lights is a new development, and would have been entertaining if it didn't decide to crop up when I was trying to turn through obscenely heavy traffic. The way GM vehicles are wired makes me wonder if the engineers they use have ever actually had to screw around with a wiring harness before, there's literally NOTHING wrong with any of the wires, nothing wrong with the flasher fuse, nothing wrong with the switch, everything is visually, electronically, and mechanically groovy. I firmly believe that the previous owner must have been a mortician who did occult things on the side and managed to get the car possessed by a drunken frat boy.
I've been home 30 minutes and still can't feel my damn fingers.