1997 explorer limited awd- bw4404 t-case trouble? or hubs?or what?

[asessnios]

hi. i have a 97 exp limited 5.0 awd.

this is what is happening. when my truck is cool, it works fine. when i put 30-40 miles on it, or less on a hot day, what happenes is when i turn left or right at low speeds, it feels like my t case is binding up. my rear end tires slip on dry pavement, and my front wheeles bind up and emit a grinding noise.

tires are all the same, gy wrangler rt/s ball joints are fine, alignment is perfect.no computer codes.



just like my 93 chev if i turn it on 4x4 and try to turn sharply. same thing happenes, which leads me to think its the t case.

few questions.

could my hubs be bad?
can the yokes be giving too much play and are forcing against eachother?
can i disconnect the front driveshaft and still move?

 

[gijoecam]

hi. i have a 97 exp limited 5.0 awd.

this is what is happening. when my truck is cool, it works fine. when i put 30-40 miles on it, or less on a hot day, what happenes is when i turn left or right at low speeds, it feels like my t case is binding up. my rear end tires slip on dry pavement, and my front wheeles bind up and emit a grinding noise.

tires are all the same, gy wrangler rt/s ball joints are fine, alignment is perfect.no computer codes.



just like my 93 chev if i turn it on 4x4 and try to turn sharply. same thing happenes, which leads me to think its the t case.

few questions.

could my hubs be bad?
can the yokes be giving too much play and are forcing against eachother?
can i disconnect the front driveshaft and still move?

No, no, and maybe.

Your hubs are solidly splined to the front axle. There is nothing to disconnect there.

There are no yokes to worry about.

Ordinarily, you could disco the front shaft, but it would force the transfer case to slip all the time while driving, and you couldn't park on an incline without using the parking brake since the t-case would still slip even when parked.

If, in fact, your t-case is locked-up solid or pretty close (which it sounds like), it *may* work without the front driveshaft, but I wouldn't recommend it. I'd get the t-case fixed ASAP as the rest of the drivetrain isn't going to like it in its cuttent state.

-Joe

 

[taxx]

How many miles are on this? And what do you mean by your rear end slips? You mean your tires spin?




One thing you might want to look at before jumping the gun to a t-case rebuild is the CV joints in the front.

What sort of noises are you hearing? What do you feel?

I am not saying its not your t-case. I would just rule out the simple stuff first. Though CVs would cause issues before they get "warmed up"

 

[gijoecam]

How many miles are on this? And what do you mean by your rear end slips? You mean your tires spin?




One thing you might want to look at before jumping the gun to a t-case rebuild is the CV joints in the front.

What sort of noises are you hearing? What do you feel?

I am not saying its not your t-case. I would just rule out the simple stuff first. Though CVs would cause issues before they get "warmed up"

He described pretty accurately the symptoms of driveline bind-up. However, with the AWD 44-06 case, he should NEVER experience those symptoms as the case is not locked-in and is supposed to allow slippage between the front and rear driveshafts.

 

[asessnios]

hi again, thanks for the replies.


what i mean by the rear end slipping..is if i crank the wheel all the way , and give it some gas, she moves, but i peel rubber off the rear wheeles.

lets say i crank the wheel to the left..shouldnt my front wheeles start slipping so that they dont bind up in a turn instead of fighting against eachother.


what i dont understand is, how come if i leave it for a couple hours, all is fine. as soon as i put half an hour on the car, thats when the thing acts up.

when it is acting up, if i change the fluid at that moment, its perfect again for a while. to me, something is getting hot that shouldnt be inside there.


miles on the transfer case...about 50,000 give or take.

 

[asessnios]

pity i cant disconnect a driveshaft ..because i really dont need awd. and me and parking brakes dont get along too well. can i turn this beast into a front wheel drive?

 

[asessnios]

the noises are the standard chain pop and tire grinding on the pavement, as if it was in 4hi

 

[taxx]

He described pretty accurately the symptoms of driveline bind-up. However, with the AWD 44-06 case, he should NEVER experience those symptoms as the case is not locked-in and is supposed to allow slippage between the front and rear driveshafts.

I agree, but like you said that case should slip and burnup before it locks up.

 

[taxx]

I'd have to see inside that t-case.


If your possitive thats where it is coming from scour the junk yards for a replacement.

 

[asessnios]

bit more information..


what is happening is definatly driveline bind up.


could my viscous coupling be bad, or one of my tires larger then the others?

 

[taxx]

Viscous couplers usually just burn up and start sliping. Its only happening when you turn right?

Have you checked out your CVs?

 

[gijoecam]

Viscous couplers usually just burn up and start sliping. Its only happening when you turn right?

Have you checked out your CVs?

Agreed, unless, as in his case, he's experiencing driveline bind-up. If it's binding up between the front and rear driveshafts, that can only be caused by a transfer case issue, and in his case, I suspect that the viscous coupling has locked-up solid. That could happen if the fluid level was low, or for a number of other reasons. Only way to know for sure would be to drop it and tear it apart.

-Joe

 

[taxx]

Agreed, unless, as in his case, he's experiencing driveline bind-up. If it's binding up between the front and rear driveshafts, that can only be caused by a transfer case issue, and in his case, I suspect that the viscous coupling has locked-up solid. That could happen if the fluid level was low, or for a number of other reasons. Only way to know for sure would be to drop it and tear it apart.

-Joe

That is IF its for sure in the transfer case and not in one of the front CV shafts. A CV could bind on a turn and lock the wheel.

Just a thought. I would pull the front shaft and see what happens. Should still be able to drive just fine. If it still locks when turning then the issue is in the front end and not the t-case. Pop noise could be a CV too.

 

[97BlackX5.0]

my truck has the EXACT same problem...Problem goes away when your truck cools down... I believe mine was started by having to use the same size but different brand tires for a little while (poor student). I put a new set of tires on and was still having the same problem but not nearly as much. It turns out that the difference in the tire brands were enough to cause excess slippage and all that slippage creates heat... Eventually the viscous coupler gets really hot and pretty much locks up.... Then when it cools down things release and all is good till the slippage starts again... This still happens even now that i have identical tires on it because there is always enough slippage... This ordeal has also stretched my chain and now if you happen to have the back wheels with little traction and the front wheels have lots and you goose it... You will literally skip the chain in the transfer case. At this point I dont see anything wrong with you taking the front driveshaft out... After I realized it was my tires I took mine out for awhile and you do have to worry about parking on hills. Your viscous coupler is probably bound enough from the heating/cooling that you wont have to worry about it when the driveshaft is out... Mines still holding together I'm waiting for a case to pop up for cheap. I just dont go crazy with the 4wd and it works great in the snow and ice still.

 

[taxx]

my truck has the EXACT same problem...Problem goes away when your truck cools down... I believe mine was started by having to use the same size but different brand tires for a little while (poor student). I put a new set of tires on and was still having the same problem but not nearly as much. It turns out that the difference in the tire brands were enough to cause excess slippage and all that slippage creates heat... Eventually the viscous coupler gets really hot and pretty much locks up.... Then when it cools down things release and all is good till the slippage starts again... This still happens even now that i have identical tires on it because there is always enough slippage... This ordeal has also stretched my chain and now if you happen to have the back wheels with little traction and the front wheels have lots and you goose it... You will literally skip the chain in the transfer case. At this point I dont see anything wrong with you taking the front driveshaft out... After I realized it was my tires I took mine out for awhile and you do have to worry about parking on hills. Your viscous coupler is probably bound enough from the heating/cooling that you wont have to worry about it when the driveshaft is out... Mines still holding together I'm waiting for a case to pop up for cheap. I just dont go crazy with the 4wd and it works great in the snow and ice still.

Your explanation makes sense. But it took me runniing locked 35s on the rocks to tear up my viscous coupler in my old sploder. Such a ****ty design. I would rip that out of there and put in a manual case in a heart beat.

But if you have no need for four wheel drive just take the front shaft out and be done with it. Sure your gonna lose/waste some power but it will still run.

 

[97BlackX5.0]

How will you lose power by taking off the driveshaft... I had mine off for almost 10k miles... during which time I pulled a 16ft enclosed trailer that was WAY over what I should have been pulling. The only things it affects are gas mileage and parking on a hill. I have read that there is a direct link between the rear output shaft and the input shaft in the transfer case. So this shouldnt hurt anything should it?

 

[taxx]

How will you lose power by taking off the driveshaft... I had mine off for almost 10k miles... during which time I pulled a 16ft enclosed trailer that was WAY over what I should have been pulling. The only things it affects are gas mileage and parking on a hill. I have read that there is a direct link between the rear output shaft and the input shaft in the transfer case. So this shouldnt hurt anything should it?

Your not gonna lose NOTICEABLE power, but the loss in fuel economy is due to the loss in power. That extra power that its pushing to the front where there is no shaft could be better spent pushing to the rear.

I have never seen the inner workings of the full awd t-case. Just the one I had that was Auto - 4 hi - 4 lo, similar setup but some added components I am sure.

From what I have read the control trac setup Ford used sends like 98% of the power to the rear and 2% to the front when cruising along and all wheels are going same speed. When it senses a slipage it can shift that in anny incriment all the way up to 98% to the front and 2% to the rear. I may be wrong, thats just what I have read.

Its probably a direct linkage to the rear and can just control how much power it sends to the front through the viscous coupler.

You can drive with the front shaft out with zero problems and you can drive with the rear shaft out and front in but it makes some really nasty noises.

 

[gijoecam]

From what I have read the control trac setup Ford used sends like 98% of the power to the rear and 2% to the front when cruising along and all wheels are going same speed. When it senses a slipage it can shift that in anny incriment all the way up to 98% to the front and 2% to the rear. I may be wrong, thats just what I have read.

Its probably a direct linkage to the rear and can just control how much power it sends to the front through the viscous coupler.

You can drive with the front shaft out with zero problems and you can drive with the rear shaft out and front in but it makes some really nasty noises.

It's the same case, but the guts are completely different on the AWD cases. The 44-05 is the Control Trac Automatic 4wd, where the 44-06 is a full-time AWD, sending approximately 65% to the rear, and 35% to the front at all times through a viscous coupling. Ordinarily, pull the front shaft and the front ooutput is free to use up all 35% of the power without transmitting it to the ground.

However, in his case, being that the viscous coupling appears to be locked-up solid anyways, pulling the front driveshaft may not hurt anything any worse than it already is. I wouldn't trust it to hold me in park on a hill, but it may still be driveable.

 

[97BlackX5.0]

If the rear shaft has a direct link then uncoupling the front driveshaft just makes it go all to the rear shaft... the front just spins freely. I guess what I'm saying is that it doesnt transfer power between the front and rear axle. Its a constant link that when stressed (difference between the front and rear) causes more torque to be applied to the front wheels simply because they have traction and the rears dont. When you have the shaft out things are tight enough in the transfer case that the front output cup is just spinning the same speed as the rear... .There is no transfer of power from the rear to the front. The only transfer that is done is because the torque is being applied at the front wheels to the ground instead of the rear. The transfer case just realizes there is slippage between the two and "grabs on" to the front output shaft more. With the shaft out its all going to be spinning the same speed and no torque is being applied or lost. The only power you are losing is the power needed to keep the whole assembly spinning when there is no need to have it even there.

Oh by the way my mileage went up not down... I gained about 2 mpg highway.

 

[gijoecam]

If the rear shaft has a direct link then uncoupling the front driveshaft just makes it go all to the rear shaft... the front just spins freely. I guess what I'm saying is that it doesnt transfer power between the front and rear axle. Its a constant link that when stressed (difference between the front and rear) causes more torque to be applied to the front wheels simply because they have traction and the rears dont. When you have the shaft out things are tight enough in the transfer case that the front output cup is just spinning the same speed as the rear... .There is no transfer of power from the rear to the front. The only transfer that is done is because the torque is being applied at the front wheels to the ground instead of the rear. The transfer case just realizes there is slippage between the two and "grabs on" to the front output shaft more. With the shaft out its all going to be spinning the same speed and no torque is being applied or lost. The only power you are losing is the power needed to keep the whole assembly spinning when there is no need to have it even there.

Oh by the way my mileage went up not down... I gained about 2 mpg highway.

I understand what you're saying completely, but I've never had the 44-06 apart. If the front output from the VC was, in fact, piggy-backed on the straight-through rear-output, then, yes, removing the front DS wouldn't change anything with the rear drive portion of the drivetrain.

Based on other members experiences on here, I'm inclined to believe that the input drives the viscous coupling and the VC drives both outputs. The reason I think that is because for those that have a working t-case, when they remove the front driveshaft, then park on a hill, the vehicle rolls backwards ever so slowly. If there was a solid mechanical link there, the vehicle couldn't roll. Therefore, that leads me to believe that there is no solid link between the input and rear output shafts and that they are tied through the viscous coupling.

But I dunno... Maybe IZWack could chime in here?

-Joe