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2-3 shift/no engine braking 1st/TSB 03-22-10

Russ in CT

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$500+ in labor invovled in doing this TSB?

OK, so I've reading about the problems with the 5sp auto, sloppy shifts, missing 2nd or 3rd gear, no engine braking in 1st, etc, and the old TSB (02-08-02) and the new TSB (03-22-10). My symptoms (99 Explorer SOHC) are sloppy 2-3 shift and no engine braking in 1st, and I'm pretty sure this TSB is my problem. So I call the dealer to find out how much they'd charge me for doing the TSB (the new one, 03-22-10), and its 6 hours plus parts! At $88/hour, that is over $500 just in labor.

But the parts (from TSB 03-22-10) are like $30 online, valve body and separator plate. Seems easy enough to do myself, but then why is it 6 hours of labor from the dealer just to drop the pan, drop the filter, drop the valve body & plate, and pop the new parts in?

The dealer says the TSB specifies some modifications that also need to be made (to something, couldn't get them to tell me what). All I have is the TSB summary, doesn't tell you what the actual repair steps are.

Does anyone have the full text of this TSB (03-22-10), and/or has replaced the parts, the 'special service kit' 7M203 updated main control valve body assembly and 7z490 separator plate? Is it as simple as dropping the pan and replacing these two parts, or is there really more to it?

It wouldn't surprise me if the stealer was trying to inflate the labor invovled, when I first asked how much doing this TSB would cost, he told me my problem was the torque converter, and that the TSB I had was outdated...
 


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Russ in CT

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Isn't that just the summary (in that link), not the entire TSB?

My dealer quoted 6 hours for doing it as a non-warranty job. But, if its just replacing the valve body, even 2.8 hours seems kind of high, which causes me to be concerned there is more to the job than I think. This is why I want to see if someone has the *complete* TSB and/or has done the job and can comment on what is really involved. Is it just replacing the valve body and separator plate, or is there more to it than that?
 




Eneurb

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That is the complete TSB. I posted it myself, but deleted a few parts that are of no importance. 6 hours is very high to do that job. There is a little more involved than just changing the separator plate, a few parts in the valve body need to be removed, and a cap needs to be changed. I do the entire job in under an hour.
 




Glacier991

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I'd plan an easy Saturday project for a DIY if this is your foray into this.... I'd also pick up a 1/4 inch torque wrench.... just so you are not doubting your torque values when putting the VB back in. Remember these are INCH pounds.... but the 5R VB is very sensitive to not being over or under torqued.
 




Russ in CT

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OK, so now I've learned several things: The dealer really is trying to rape me, I need to replace some mysterious cap when I do the job, and I need to torque the VB back to some unknown amount of inch/pounds.

However I'm still unable to tackle this job myself if I don't know what is actually involved. The TSB doesn't specify what this cap is, or the torque values. Is it posted somewhere how to perform this TSB?

Can someone give me the details? I drop the pan, remove filter, remove VB (being careful to note which bolt goes where, as they are close in length, but not the same), then, what? What is invovled in replacing the separator plate, what 'cap' do I have to replace (and does this cap come in the 7M203 kit? Does the kit itself come with any instuctions? what is the p/n of this cap?) What 'other parts' in the VB have to be removed?

What else do I have to do? Can anyone help me out? TIA...
 




Glacier991

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although the 5R VB is different than the valve body in the A4LD, there are enough similarities for rebuild threads of the A4LD Valve body to be of use. Read TN-Explorer's Valve Body rebuild journal, and take a Look at "My A4LD Rebuild Diary" in the useful threads forum (finding the valve body portions at the beginning and the end). The inch lbs settings are are 71-96 inch lbs....a goodly range.
 




Russ in CT

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OK, I read the stuff on the A4LD VB repair, and the A4LD rebuild diary. Am I correct in understanding that what is involved in the TSB repair is to:
- remove pan & filter
- drop VB
- remove separator plate & gasket from VB
- transfer all the valves, etc from the old VB to the new one
(I assume new VB comes 'stripped')
- reinstall everything (use correct torque specs)

Is there ANYTHING else involved? Enurb says “There is a little more involved than just changing the separator plate, a few parts in the valve body need to be removed, and a cap needs to be changed.” Does the new ‘cap’ come with the 7M203 and/or 7z490? What parts in the VB need to be removed? Does 7M203 and/or 7z490 come with any instructions?

Do new gaskets come with the 7M203 and/or 7z490 specified in the TSB?

Are 7M203 and 7z490 the only parts I need to order?

TIA...
 




Glacier991

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you won't have a new VB, you will be reusing the old one.
 




Russ in CT

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I was under the impression that the 7M203 'kit' consisted of an updated VB. I guess its actually a kit to update the VB, not a new updated VB itself?

If this is the case, then I suppose the kit comes with the 'cap' that Enuerb was refering to? It also makes more sense about what Enuerb was saying about removing stuff from the VB (since now I understand that he is just talking about removing stuff from the old VB)

So, my only remaning questions are:

- DO INSTRUCTIONS COME WITH THE KIT????
- DO I NEED TO ORDER ANYTHING OTHER THAN 7M203 & 7Z490????

TIA...
 




Billy177

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what dealer in CT are you going to
 




Russ in CT

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Going to? None. I don't have a very high opinion of dealers. I just called one to see how much they'd charge, and wasn't surprised to find out they want 6 hours to do a job that Ford would pay them 2.8 hours to do, and that a member of this board who apparently works at a Ford dealer can actually perform in less than 1 hour.

The stealer I called was the one close to my job, Bob Thomas Ford in Hamden...
 




Eneurb

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The kit comes with all the instructions necessary update the valve body, it does not however tell you how to remove the valve body. 2.8 hours is factory time. Factory time is usually 2/3 of retail time. Perhaps if you are not confident with your dealer, purchase the parts and take your vehicle to a transmission specialty shop. They should be perfectly capable of performing the update, and their labor rate is probably less than the dealer. The only parts that you would need that don't come with the kit is fluid and the filter.
 




Russ in CT

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OK, this is what I wanted to know, the kit comes with instructions, and everything needed except a new filter and fluid.

Thanks Enuerb!

I'm going to order the parts now...
 




BobK

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Well, now I'm confused. What parts do I order for my '97 Ranger 4x4, V6, 4.0L? TSB 03-22-10 says "95/96 Models ONLY" and then proceeds to list parts for "95/97 Models". Is that a typo?

Additionally, some chatter I read recently said something about the new gaskets being bonded to the valve body separator on '97 and up models.

Also, the TSB 03-22-10 printed out by my local dealer lists two separate valve body separators for my Ranger: F77Z-7A008-CB 97GT-KE/LE or F77Z-7A008-DB 97GT-KF/LF. I'm not sure which one I need.

Can anyone provide some insight for me?

Here's the newest TSB:

TSB 03-22-10

FORD: 1995-2001 EXPLORER
1995-2002 RANGER
1996-1997 AEROSTAR
2000-2002 EXPLORER SPORT
2001-2002 EXPLORER SPORT TRAC
MERCURY: 1997-2001 MOUNTAINEER

This article supersedes TSB's 03-11-9, 02-13-8 and 02-08-2 to update the model coverage.

ISSUE:
Some vehicles built prior to 12/1/2001 may exhibit the following shift and engagement conditions:

No 2nd Gear
No 3rd Gear
No Engine Braking In Manual 1st.
Out of specification pressures controlled by the transmission main control valve body separator plate may be the cause.

ACTION:
Verify the condition, the main control valve body separator plate may need to be updated to the latest level. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

CAUTION: A NEW SEPARATOR 7Z490 MUST BE USED WHEN INSTALLING THE SPECIAL SERVICE KIT 7M203 OR ADDITIONAL TRANSMISSION DAMAGE MAY OCCUR. REFER TO THE PARTS APPLICATION CHART IN THIS ARTICLE FOR CORRECT SEPARATOR PLATE PART LISTING.

NOTE: THIS ARTICLE DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY OTHER CONDITIONS OR COMPONENTS THAT MAY CAUSE SIMILAR SYMPTOMS AND IS ONLY WRITTEN TO COVER THESE SPECIFIC CONDITIONS.

NOTE: AN IN-LINE SERVICE FILTER IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE ADDED OR REPLACED FOR THIS TSB.

Verify that one or more of the following conditions exist.
- Low Line Pressure While In Drive At WOT
- No 2nd And/Or No 3rd Gear
- No Engine Braking In Manual 1st
- DTC P0732, P0733 Or P1762

- Install Kit (3L5Z-7M203-JA) to update the main control valve body assembly, refer to the installation procedures found in the kit.
- Reinstall the main control by continuing to follow the installation steps listed in the Workshop Manual, in-vehicle service, main control valve body.
- After completing the procedure, verify the condition has been corrected.
- Clear all DTCs.

PART APPLICATION CHART

95/96 Models ONLY
95/97 Models Separator Plate to Case Gasket 1 2L5Z-7C155-AA ALL
95/97 Models Separator Plate to Main Control Gasket 1 2L5Z-7D100-BA ALL

95/96 Models - ALL
Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 F5TZ-7A008-CA 95GT-AA/BA/CA/DA/EA/FA/ GA;96GT-BA/CADB/EB/FA/ GA/HA/KA/MA/NA

97 Models ONLY
97 2.3L Ranger Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 F77Z-7A008-AB 97GT-GC
97 3.0L OHV Ranger/Aerostar Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 F77Z-7A008-AB 97GT-EC/FC/MC/NC/RE/SE
97 4.0L OHV Ranger/Aerostar Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 F77Z-7A008-CB 97GT-KE/LE
97 4.0L OHV Explorer/Mountaineer Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 F77Z-7A008-DB 97GT-KF/LF
97 4.0L SOHC Explorer/Mountaineer Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 F77Z-7A008-EB 97GT-AE/BE

1998-2001 Models ONLY
98/01 2.5L Ranger Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-DA 98GT-GA; XL5P-CA
98/00 3.0L Ranger Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-EA 98GT-EB/FB; XL5P-AA/BA
98/00 4.0L - EI Ranger Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-FA 98GT-KB/LB; XL5P-DA/EA/FA
98/00 4.0L - EI Explorer Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-GA 98GT-CB/DB; XL2P- EA/FA
98/00 4.0L - SOHC Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-HA 98GT-AA/BA; XL2P- CA/DA

2001-2002 Models ONLY
2001/2002 2.3L Ranger Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-AA 1L5P-CA
2001/2002 3.0L Ranger Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-BA 1L5P-AA/BA
2001/2002 4.0L-SOHC - ALL Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 1L5Z-7Z490-CA 1L5P-DA/EA

ALL MODELS
1995-2002 ALL as Listed Above Valve Body Service Kit 1 3L5Z-7M203-JA ALL

PART NUMBER PART NAME
3L5Z-7M203-JA Valve Body Service Kit

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE

SUPERSEDES:
03-11-9, 02-13-8, 02-8-2

WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
 




Runnin'OnEmpty

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97 4.0L OHV Ranger/Aerostar Plate - Valve Body Separator 1 F77Z-7A008-CB 97GT-KE/LE
Bob, this appears to be the one for your Ranger. The other one is for Explorers/Mountaineers.

The revised valve assembly is 3L5Z-7M203-JA.

The way I read it is that some 97 revised plates have the bonded gaskets and some didn't.....if you're not sure, I'd just order the gaskets to be safe (they're inexpensive).

Check out the 5R55E VB rebuild thread by Glacier991, it may be of some help, and welcome to the board. :)
 




BobK

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Thanks for the welcome.

Yep, that's the one that appears to be the correct separator plate. However, I was thoroughly confused by the fact that the very same TSB 33-22-10 that my dealer printed out two days ago listed F77Z-7A008-CB 97GT-KE/LE and F77Z-7A008-DB 97GT-KF/LF as possible components for the 4.0 Ranger.

What's the difference between a "97GT-KE/LE" and a "97GT-KF/LF"?

Also, I expected to find a metal tag on my transmission telling me what type it is. No luck. Where are the identifying numbers on a Ranger transmission?
 




Runnin'OnEmpty

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Yep, that's the one that appears to be the correct separator plate. However, I was thoroughly confused by the fact that the very same TSB 33-22-10 that my dealer printed out two days ago listed F77Z-7A008-CB 97GT-KE/LE and F77Z-7A008-DB 97GT-KF/LF as possible components for the 4.0 Ranger.
Bob, I was hoping that Eneurb would answer this, since he's a Ford employee. But, he hasn't been around the board in a while; too bad, because he shared lots of valuable information with us.

There's no question about the valve kit number, since all use the 3L5Z-7M203-JA.

I'm 'almost' positive that your 97 Ranger uses the F77Z-7A008-CB plate. The xxx...DB plate is listed for Explorer/Mountaineers. I suspect those numbers following the part number are design date numbers, and are irrelevant when ordering the part. I looked up F77Z-7A008-CB with Fordpartsnetwork.com, and they offer it for $12-13. (This also appears to be one with the bonded gaskets, since Ford only lists the gaskets through the 96 model year).

Don't know where the trans ID numbers are, although they must be stamped somewhere on the housing. I did find a paper slip in my glovebox stating that mine was manufactured in France. :rolleyes:
 




BobK

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Correct Plate, But No Gasket

I finally ordered the correct parts. Yes, that's the correct plate; however, I ordered it from FordPartsNetwork with the understanding that it was the plate with a bonded gasket. Guess what? No gasket. I'm inclined to think that a bonded gasket will last longer than an add on.

Did I get old stock? Should I ask FordPartsNetwork to pony up a valve plate with a bonded gasket?
 


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Glacier991

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I would add this.....parts folks have to go with what their computers tell them... the folks at FordPartsNetwork are good people. They are not trying to screw anyone. I know a little about these VB's and *I* am not sure which ones have bonded gaskets and which ones do not. I have ordered thinking it might be bonded plate and it wasn't. By all means explore, but don't assume Torrie and his staff are trying to somehow cheat you.... they are not. It is a grade A operation.
 




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