2007 Explorer Eddie Bauer Overheating

[manapastool]

Hi All
Your Support Needed

I bought American used Ford Explorer 2007 Eddie Bauer v8 4.6 before 3 Years, It was winter when I bought the vehicle, everything was good I loved the vehicle and the summer starts.

Whenever I stuck in traffic the vehicle starts overheating with AC on, but if AC is turned off or shift to N or P the temperature gauge drops to normal within 5 to 7 minutes.

I went to local ford dealer they denied accepting American specification vehicle having mileage more than 100,000 KMs

I went to different American cars workshop whatever they told me I have replaced.

In first summer I replaced the following but there was no change

Radiator replaced
Radiator cap replaced
Fan clutch replaced
Installed additional electric fan outside as per GCC specification

but no change in overheating


2nd Summer
AC compressor replaced
AC condenser replaced
Catalyst converter replaced
Water pump replaced (Existing was also like new)
Thermostat replaced second time
Installed two additional electric fans of GMC 97 attached with radiator in front of main clutch fan

but no change in overheating

so last option was to replace head gaskets
Head Gaskets replaced with all required lathe works

but no change in overheating

3rd Summer (now a days)
Replaced engine (American used engine)
Fan clutch replaced once again
Thermostats removed but no change in overheating
New thermostat reinstalled.
HVAC heater hose replaced.

but no change in overheating

I checked with infrared thermometer when vehicle is overheating the temperature reading over radiator upper pipe is from 210 to 225 F and over radiator lower pipe is also same 210 to 220 F and near thermostat 225 to 230 F inside plastic manifold 230 to 237 F over head cover 210 to 220 F and temperature gauge needle hits first line or is on 80 %.

What else should I replace to solve this issue

Could transmission cause overheating engine ?
Could electric generator causes overheating ?
Could PCM malfunctioning could cause overheating ?

 

[Explorer_PL]

Wow, lots of parts replaced. From the reading, it looks like the cause is outside of the engine. Are you in some super hot climate ? Did you try to drive it without thermostat ?

No overheating in N and P indicates that there is less load in those 2 positions. In P and N the torque converter is disengaged so how is the truck driving or behaving while in gear (D,3,2,1) when driven and when stopped ? Do the rpm's drop of fluctuate ?

 

[manapastool]

Wow, lots of parts replaced. From the reading, it looks like the cause is outside of the engine. Are you in some super hot climate ? Did you try to drive it without thermostat ?

No overheating in N and P indicates that there is less load in those 2 positions. In P and N the torque converter is disengaged so how is the truck driving or behaving while in gear (D,3,2,1) when driven and when stopped ? Do the rpm's drop of fluctuate ?

Yes I'm in Saudi Arabia, yes drove without thermostat with newly installed engine but no change.

On highway it never overheats even driving 40 km/h it never overheats but when stopped in D or in 3, 2 1 for 5 to 6 minutes it starts overheating with AC on only, temperature drops when shifting to N or turning of the AC.

Rpms are normally on 1000 but when shifting to D they drop to 900 ... else no fluctuations or drops in rpms ... note that I also replaced throttle body.

 

[pzy3339]

I'll go out on a limb here and assume the truck is in perfect working order and this is simply a matter of thermodynamics.

Ever tried running a different coolant mix?

Look into running without anti freeze and substitute some type of anti corrosion mix meant for high performance applications. I have used Water Wetter in distilled water before with good results. Engine temps dropped about 15 degrees Fahrenheit.

With the high temp outside and low humidity the air going through the radiator has a reduced capacity to carry away heat from the radiator. Sitting still at idle it will be most affected by this.

If turning on the AC means temps rise slowly you are quite simply producing more heat than can be exchanged between the radiator and the air. The AC compressor will require roughly 5HP, ~13,000BTUs per hour produced by the engine. The AC system will pump something like 25-40,000 BTUs per hour from the cabin to the condenser. Lets assume 27,000. Giving you an additional 40,000 BTUs per hour load on your cooling system.

40,000=1.08*CFM*(230-115)
HEAT=specific heat*air flow*temperature difference(coolant temp-air temp)

40,000/(1.08*115)=322CMF.

That's 322CFM required just to compensate for the AC.

If you are 50 CFM short of what is needed you will see a slow temp rise to the point where the difference in temp balances the equation based on the actual air flow. This is limited in reality by the temps the engine can withstand, you could pop the radiator or the radiator cap will blow, or the engine shut down, etc.

 

[manapastool]

I'll go out on a limb here and assume the truck is in perfect working order and this is simply a matter of thermodynamics.

Ever tried running a different coolant mix?

Look into running without anti freeze and substitute some type of anti corrosion mix meant for high performance applications. I have used Water Wetter in distilled water before with good results. Engine temps dropped about 15 degrees Fahrenheit.

With the high temp outside and low humidity the air going through the radiator has a reduced capacity to carry away heat from the radiator. Sitting still at idle it will be most affected by this.

If turning on the AC means temps rise slowly you are quite simply producing more heat than can be exchanged between the radiator and the air. The AC compressor will require roughly 5HP, ~13,000BTUs per hour produced by the engine. The AC system will pump something like 25-40,000 BTUs per hour from the cabin to the condenser. Lets assume 27,000. Giving you an additional 40,000 BTUs per hour load on your cooling system.

40,000=1.08*CFM*(230-115)
HEAT=specific heat*air flow*temperature difference(coolant temp-air temp)

40,000/(1.08*115)=322CMF.

That's 322CFM required just to compensate for the AC.

If you are 50 CFM short of what is needed you will see a slow temp rise to the point where the difference in temp balances the equation based on the actual air flow. This is limited in reality by the temps the engine can withstand, you could pop the radiator or the radiator cap will blow, or the engine shut down, etc.

I tried water without coolant and motorcraft gold 50/50 ..... but nothing changed ..... how about using electric fan and removing stock clutch fan ? What fan you will recommend ? or what about two fans for best CFM ..... what about using extra row radiator .... the stock one is two rows.

 

[matsavol]

That sounds very odd and surprising nothing has yet to fix it!

Have you checked the fan shroud and other air guide pieces in front of the radiator are good and in place? If they were broken/removed the fan might just circulate hot air through the radiator explaining why it can not cool when stationary.

The AC condenser coil is in front of the radiator. If you turn on the AC, not only does it increase engine load, it does also increase the radiator inlet air temperature. I'd think overheating with AC on is much quicker than having no AC and the car on Drive or Neutral? Correct?

Good luck. Hopefully you find the solution soon.

 

[pzy3339]

I tried water without coolant and motorcraft gold 50/50 ..... but nothing changed ..... how about using electric fan and removing stock clutch fan ? What fan you will recommend ? or what about two fans for best CFM ..... what about using extra row radiator .... the stock one is two rows.

I would not remove the stock fan.

I thought you had an electric fan installed? This fan should be mounted flush in front of the radiator. The biggest one you can find. Big as in air flow. This could be either a single fan our dual fans. Whatever option can move the most air.

Have you ever tried testing to see what happens if you have the AC on, in DRIVE and just sit there with the hood open? Should allow more air movement, and could prove this whole theory.

Also I agree matsavol and I am also interested to know if all the air shrouds are in place. They need to be. Especially the one that goes around the stock fan and connects to the engine side of the radiator. Without this the air will circulate around the fan not through the radiator.

 

[manapastool]

That sounds very odd and surprising nothing has yet to fix it!

Have you checked the fan shroud and other air guide pieces in front of the radiator are good and in place? If they were broken/removed the fan might just circulate hot air through the radiator explaining why it can not cool when stationary.

The AC condenser coil is in front of the radiator. If you turn on the AC, not only does it increase engine load, it does also increase the radiator inlet air temperature. I'd think overheating with AC on is much quicker than having no AC and the car on Drive or Neutral? Correct?

Good luck. Hopefully you find the solution soon.

Yes all air guide pieces behind grill are in place and are in good condition. btw I was planning to remove them all I thought they might blocking air but now I will not remove them.

Fan shroud is also in good condition.

Yes you are right either I put shifter to N or turn off the AC the heat gauge drops.

 

[manapastool]

I would not remove the stock fan.

I thought you had an electric fan installed? This fan should be mounted flush in front of the radiator. The biggest one you can find. Big as in air flow. This could be either a single fan our dual fans. Whatever option can move the most air.

Have you ever tried testing to see what happens if you have the AC on, in DRIVE and just sit there with the hood open? Should allow more air movement, and could prove this whole theory.

Also I agree matsavol and I am also interested to know if all the air shrouds are in place. They need to be. Especially the one that goes around the stock fan and connects to the engine side of the radiator. Without this the air will circulate around the fan not through the radiator.

Yes there are three electric fans installed, smaller one front of radiator pushing air in and two other in front of stock clutch fan inside the same stock shroud but they aren't that big. They just cover small area inside radiator and are only 1 cm away from radiator.

Yes in repair shops I have tested the same way several times with hood open so the mechanics could see the situation.

Yes stock fan shroud is in place and in good condition even all air guides are in place and are in good condition.

Today I saw Yukon and Lincoln V8s with no clutch fans but all having two stock electric fans each 40 cm in diameter + Mercury grand marquis v8 4.6 having single electric fan instead of clutch fan.

Unfortunately explorer radiator dimensions are 62 cm x 60 cm and Yukon electric fans with shroud are 85 cm x 46 cm.

any idea what is maximum CFM air stock clutch fan can produce ?

 

[matsavol]

What I'm not getting is why the upper and lower radiator hose temperatures are the same (hot)... It either means the radiator is not cooling the coolant at all (unlikely, considering all the checks done so far, and it works when driving), or the coolant is not circulating?

Maybe when sitting at idle the engine RPM (and water pump) speed is so low that the coolant circulation stops. What is your engine RPM showing at those conditions? Once you place the gear at N, the engine does run a bit faster, maybe just enough to start the coolant circulation? You may try to demo this at park with AC on but transmission at Neutral, at idle. When you see the temp rising, slightly press the gas to increase the "idle RPM" to around 1000 and see if the temps drops? If that helps you may want to invest to a tuner that can alter the engine idle speed?

 

[Flag Gibby]

Just a thought after reading everything that the OP has tried. How about putting an external transmission cooler on and completely bypassing the integrated tranny cooler in the radiator since the issue is when he is stopped and the vehicle is in gear? That should eliminate the additional BTU's in the radiator coming from the transmission that the coolant comes in contact with. Of course if you go that way, you should be able to find a radiator with the right dimensions that doesn't have an integrated tranny cooler that you can put in place of the OEM thus giving you more cooling capacity for the motor.

 

[MotorCityFats13]

if you are using 3 electric fans are you sure they are in the right push pull configuration? if the inside fans are throwing air into the rad and the outside fan is pusing air into the engine bay you would just be pushing hot air into the rad and keeping it there with the front fan.... but it sounds like you had the over heating problem before adding the 3 electric fans and they should have helped if they are pusher on the outside and puller on the inside

 

[Flag Gibby]

.... but it sounds like you had the over heating problem before adding the 3 electric fans and they should have helped if they are pusher on the outside and puller on the inside

Not necessarily, think of it like an AC unit on your house. Putting a larger fan or more fans on the condenser doesn't change the cooling capacity of the unit (if it is already properly optimized) because it is the liquid/gas that is the limiting factor here. Same thing with the engine coolant more airflow across the cooling fins doesn't increase the cooling capacity, but if the airflow is increased and the circulation of the coolant is increased then you get an increase in cooling capacity. The reason that the electric fans haven't improved anything at idle is because the system already has enough airflow across the cooling fins, it is the circulation of the coolant that is preventing the transfer of the heat out of the system. Hence, why the system is fine when the vehicle is not idling.

 

[MotorCityFats13]

Not necessarily, think of it like an AC unit on your house. Putting a larger fan or more fans on the condenser doesn't change the cooling capacity of the unit (if it is already properly optimized) because it is the liquid/gas that is the limiting factor here. Same thing with the engine coolant more airflow across the cooling fins doesn't increase the cooling capacity, but if the airflow is increased and the circulation of the coolant is increased then you get an increase in cooling capacity. The reason that the electric fans haven't improved anything at idle is because the system already has enough airflow across the cooling fins, it is the circulation of the coolant that is preventing the transfer of the heat out of the system. Hence, why the system is fine when the vehicle is not idling.

Totally agree... I was just saying if the air is moving in the wrong direction it cancles out but the OP had the problem before adding the fans and didnt say it made it any worse

 

[pzy3339]

Not necessarily, think of it like an AC unit on your house. Putting a larger fan or more fans on the condenser doesn't change the cooling capacity of the unit (if it is already properly optimized) because it is the liquid/gas that is the limiting factor here. Same thing with the engine coolant more airflow across the cooling fins doesn't increase the cooling capacity, but if the airflow is increased and the circulation of the coolant is increased then you get an increase in cooling capacity. The reason that the electric fans haven't improved anything at idle is because the system already has enough airflow across the cooling fins, it is the circulation of the coolant that is preventing the transfer of the heat out of the system. Hence, why the system is fine when the vehicle is not idling.

This is an excellent point. However, in that situation you are limited in cooling capacity by the heat pumps capacity to move heat from the evaporator to the condenser. In this situation heat is abundant. That is not to say that cooling capacity would not increase with increased flow. It would, because the average temperature across the radiator would be higher, giving a greater differential temperature between the radiator and the air.

I wonder if it may be possible to use a smaller pulley on the water pump to increase water pump rpms and thus increase flow.

I would like to know why he sees no temperature drop between inlet and outlet. That does not make sense. Even at idle the rpms should be sufficient to produce coolant flow. I know for a fact I can see flow through the radiator on mine at idle. And if flow is low and air movement is very high outgoing coolant should be much cooler.

I would also be interested to know if anyone has ever added a bypass allowing for use of an electric pump. The only issue here is we are talking a good amount of current draw to produce the flow required at higher load, like highway speed. Perhaps a bypass allowing both pumps to work, but getting that properly set up could be tricky.

I would think the best bet is a smaller pulley on the water pump if looking to increase coolant flow. You might have to get a machine shop to custom make it.

Or larger crank shaft pulley and increase the speed of the belt all together. This could lead to additional wear on other belt driven assemblies though. For this option it might be good to run under drive pulleys to balance things back out.

 

[manapastool]

What I'm not getting is why the upper and lower radiator hose temperatures are the same (hot)... It either means the radiator is not cooling the coolant at all (unlikely, considering all the checks done so far, and it works when driving), or the coolant is not circulating?

Maybe when sitting at idle the engine RPM (and water pump) speed is so low that the coolant circulation stops. What is your engine RPM showing at those conditions? Once you place the gear at N, the engine does run a bit faster, maybe just enough to start the coolant circulation? You may try to demo this at park with AC on but transmission at Neutral, at idle. When you see the temp rising, slightly press the gas to increase the "idle RPM" to around 1000 and see if the temps drops? If that helps you may want to invest to a tuner that can alter the engine idle speed?

The upper and lower hoses having same temperatures really annoying me. Today I took several readings with infrared gun some readings show same temperature while sometimes lower hose having less temperature like 212 F for lower hose and 225 F for upper hose.

I will try what you said.

Today I installed new fabricated radiator 4 rows (double the size of stock radiator) all Aluminum but nothing changed.

 

[manapastool]

Just a thought after reading everything that the OP has tried. How about putting an external transmission cooler on and completely bypassing the integrated tranny cooler in the radiator since the issue is when he is stopped and the vehicle is in gear? That should eliminate the additional BTU's in the radiator coming from the transmission that the coolant comes in contact with. Of course if you go that way, you should be able to find a radiator with the right dimensions that doesn't have an integrated tranny cooler that you can put in place of the OEM thus giving you more cooling capacity for the motor.

There is one oil cooler inside the grille and I think that is for transmission but I will try as you said. I will fix transmission pipes in old radiator which I removed recently (by laying it on the ground underneath vehicle) and will update you.

 

[manapastool]

This is an excellent point. However, in that situation you are limited in cooling capacity by the heat pumps capacity to move heat from the evaporator to the condenser. In this situation heat is abundant. That is not to say that cooling capacity would not increase with increased flow. It would, because the average temperature across the radiator would be higher, giving a greater differential temperature between the radiator and the air.

I wonder if it may be possible to use a smaller pulley on the water pump to increase water pump rpms and thus increase flow.

I would like to know why he sees no temperature drop between inlet and outlet. That does not make sense. Even at idle the rpms should be sufficient to produce coolant flow. I know for a fact I can see flow through the radiator on mine at idle. And if flow is low and air movement is very high outgoing coolant should be much cooler.

I would also be interested to know if anyone has ever added a bypass allowing for use of an electric pump. The only issue here is we are talking a good amount of current draw to produce the flow required at higher load, like highway speed. Perhaps a bypass allowing both pumps to work, but getting that properly set up could be tricky.

I would think the best bet is a smaller pulley on the water pump if looking to increase coolant flow. You might have to get a machine shop to custom make it.

Or larger crank shaft pulley and increase the speed of the belt all together. This could lead to additional wear on other belt driven assemblies though. For this option it might be good to run under drive pulleys to balance things back out.

Today I installed new fabricated radiator all aluminum 4 rows (double the width of stock radiator) but no change in overheating.

I will try to fabricate new smaller pulley for water pump but how much rpms will be increased any idea ? I think the same pulley will also increase fan rpms at the same time.

How we can install both mechanical and electric water pumps at same time ? If installing a electric pump on the outlet of radiator and than connecting to main hose will this increase water flow ?

 

[MotorCityFats13]

The sensor on the clutch should keep the fan at the speeds that the computer thinks are sufficient... Mine no matter of engine rpm is usually between 600-900rpm... Even when the engine is at 6000rpm the fan reads 600-900 through obd2

 

[RJ]

Today I installed new fabricated radiator all aluminum 4 rows (double the width of stock radiator) but no change in overheating.

I will try to fabricate new smaller pulley for water pump but how much rpms will be increased any idea ? I think the same pulley will also increase fan rpms at the same time.

How we can install both mechanical and electric water pumps at same time ? If installing a electric pump on the outlet of radiator and than connecting to main hose will this increase water flow ?

If you're experiencing the same temp at the inlet and outlet rad hoses, then I would NOT bother with upgrading the pump. There's already an over-abundance of water flow, and shortage of convectional heat transfer by the rad core. Increasing the mass flow of water becomes useless.

Upgrading the pump only make sense if you're seeing a LARGE delta-temp between the inlet and outlet hoses, and still overheating. That is a symptom of lack of water flow.

Lot of good points already brought up, but have you checked the operation of the OEM engine driven fan?

We have a fairly advanced electronic fan clutch. From what I can see, it varies from full viscous mode (when temps are low), to partial lock using some sort of PWM logic, all the way to fully locked when engine temps are high.

If your clutch is operating properly, the fan should ROAR like a diesel truck when your temps are high. Even at a idle of 1000 rpms, the fan noise should be noticeable, as well as a healthy blast of hot air coming out. Anything above 2000 rpm should be very loud. If your fan is not doing this, perhaps look into the clutch first?

As others have mentioned, double check to make sure your electric fans are in the right direction, and make sure they're not hindering the engine fan in locked mode. Unless you're using very powerful fans (Taurus, MK VIII, or the latest brushless fans from Spal), I can almost guarantee they're impeding airflow.