2007 Explorer V8 Caliper Slide Pins???

[Fire488]

I had my brakes done at a local Ford dealership a few years ago when they had a sale. I am now doing the brakes myself to save some money. I noticed when i removed the caliper slide pins that one pin had notches on the top and machined flat spots running the full length of the pin. The other pin had no notches and was completely round. On the passenger side the pin with the flats was on the bottom and the completely round pin with no notches was located on the top. On the drivers side this was reversed. That does not make sense. Does anyone how the two different pins should be positioned on the caliper?

Thank you.

Scott

 

[Rcflyer330]

I was also wondering that also. I don't think it matters but after doing a google search I found this thread from 2001-2005 explorers forum

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356678
post #4 is about the pins

 

[swshawaii]

From the 2001-05 ST sub forum but the front calipers should be similar. See post #15.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283032&highlight=caliper+pins

 

[Fire488]

Thanks to the both of you and although my pins do not have rubber grommets but do have the protective rubber bellows or debris shield, I still do not have a clear answer. I just went to Oasis ford in Old Bridge NJ and they were helpful and tried to figure this out. the shop foreman eventually came out and said that although the pins are completely different it makes no difference which way they are installed. He said that they rotate which is completely incorrect since the tops rest on a boss that prevents rotation. They just slide. I will install them the way they came out, but i know that since they are different the ford engineers designed them to be installed in a specific manner. Otherwise they would both be the same. Normally i could figure something like this out for myself, but in this case it does not make sense.
There is a reason for this difference in pins and I hope someday someone that knows can provide a reason.

 

[swshawaii]

The mystery remains. LOL

Make sure you use silicone brake lube made specifically for brake hardware. Regular anti seize
or grease will gum up and bind over time. Permatex Ultra and Sil Glyde are two popular choices.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3227559&postcount=19

 

[Tech By Trade]

They were probably froze and the shop had to replace them last time. They probably cheeped out and only changed the 2 that were stuck. Mine were froze, so I replaced all 4 on the front. The replacements were all the same. Had to replace the boots too, as they got damaged due to the heat used to un-freeze the pins. The kit was around 15 bucks at our local parts shop.

 

[Fire488]

This was all i could find from 3 sources. I wanted the Sil Lube, but all I could find was this: http://www.permatex.com/products-2/...-ceramic-extreme-brake-parts-lubricant-detail

I hope this is sufficient and does not cause pins to stick in the bore.
What do you think?

EDIT: Just purchased SIL-GLYDE and will remove the Permatex and add this to the pins tomorrow. I will use the Permatex on the rest of the hardware though.

 

[swshawaii]

Perfect. Supposedly Permatex's best brake lube, although doubt your brakes will ever approach 3k temps.

8 ounces would be a lifetime supply for most, a single counter pack should be adequate for one front brake job.

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-Coun...d=1453239904&sr=8-2&keywords=permatex+ceramic

 

[Fire488]

Perfect. Supposedly Permatex's best brake lube, although doubt your brakes will ever approach 3k temps.

8 ounces would be a lifetime supply for most, a single counter pack should be adequate for one front brake job.

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-Coun...d=1453239904&sr=8-2&keywords=permatex+ceramic

So you think I should leave it over the SIL-GLYDE???

 

[swshawaii]

Both get GREAT reviews. Use sparingly anywhere stainless brake hardware contacts the caliper. NOT on friction material.

 

[Fire488]

Both get GREAT reviews. Use sparingly anywhere stainless brake hardware contacts the caliper. NOT on friction material.

Thank you sir.
Not sure why to keep grease from stainless to cast iron contact...I am a marine mechanic and unlike metals are always a huge issue where loctite or a material to prevent seizing is a must.

 

[swshawaii]

Sorry, misworded. Definitely lube anywhere the hardware makes contact, just use it sparingly.

Corrosion occurs under the hardware causing issues. Wire brush, clean surface, and lube away. GL

 

[Fire488]

Sorry, misworded. Definitely lube anywhere the hardware makes contact, just use it sparingly.

Corrosion occurs under the hardware causing issues. Wire brush, clean surface, and lube away. GL

Thank you. I did use a file and wire brush to clean the metal surfaces under the stainless brake shoe attachment slide area. So far looks good, but working in the cold (25 degrees f) the greases are like tar lol.
Finished fronts tonight will complete the rears tomorrow.

 

[thebrakeman]

In the brake business, there are many schools of thought regarding the guide pins. In a perfect world, you would want a very rigid system, with little relative movement, which would be solid, round pins with close tolerances to the bracket bores. Unfortunately, in this situation, when you apply the brakes to stop the vehicle, the torque will make the housing twist. With such close tolerances, 1 or both pins could bind, holding the caliper in that twisted condition. Then when you release the brake, 1 side remains slightly engaged to the rotor. Not enough that you will feel it, but just enough to start taper wear.

So we introduce flat spots, to allow the housing to move in certain directions, but not others. But that means in the resting condition, the pin may not be centered in the bore, which can lead to off brake issues as well. So we introduce these rubber bushings on 1 or both pins. This means the pin is centered in the off-brake condition, but can absorb some housing rotation (on-brake) without binding.

It would seem that by now, there would be a standard solution. But in reality, every vehicle is unique. The loading, weight distribution, friction material, and so many other factors mean that the final solution needs to be tuned by the brake supplier.

My recommendation is to go to a dealer and ask to look at the OEM parts (RH and LH). Whatever the solution, it's intentional. One size/solution does not fit all.

 

[Fire488]

In the brake business, there are many schools of thought regarding the guide pins. In a perfect world, you would want a very rigid system, with little relative movement, which would be solid, round pins with close tolerances to the bracket bores. Unfortunately, in this situation, when you apply the brakes to stop the vehicle, the torque will make the housing twist. With such close tolerances, 1 or both pins could bind, holding the caliper in that twisted condition. Then when you release the brake, 1 side remains slightly engaged to the rotor. Not enough that you will feel it, but just enough to start taper wear.

So we introduce flat spots, to allow the housing to move in certain directions, but not others. But that means in the resting condition, the pin may not be centered in the bore, which can lead to off brake issues as well. So we introduce these rubber bushings on 1 or both pins. This means the pin is centered in the off-brake condition, but can absorb some housing rotation (on-brake) without binding.

It would seem that by now, there would be a standard solution. But in reality, every vehicle is unique. The loading, weight distribution, friction material, and so many other factors mean that the final solution needs to be tuned by the brake supplier.

My recommendation is to go to a dealer and ask to look at the OEM parts (RH and LH). Whatever the solution, it's intentional. One size/solution does not fit all.

Thanks for the reply and sorry for my late reply. I did go to the dealer and purchased genuine parts as I never have luck with aftermarket systems. I looked at the parts blow up and it does not distinguish the two very different pins. There are no illustrations in the pin kit package either. There are no rubber grommets on the Explorer pins. I installed both pins with the flats on them to the bottom of the caliper bores. I cannot agree with most of the technicians that I spoke with that it does not matter which bore they go in since I understand the physics of what is happening when the forces are applied to the parts when applying the breaks. I am a retired firefighter, but have also been a marine mechanic for 37 years. I did work on autos and trucks for many years in between with brakes being one of my favorite things to do.
I have reached out to a friend who was a former Ford engineer to see if he knows, but I doubt he will.

 

[thebrakeman]

Please confirm if these are the fronts or rears.

 

[thebrakeman]

I just confirmed the rears:
Historically, they have been leading (lower) solid pins, and trailing (upper) bushed pins.
Anybody that tells you it does not matter does not know what they are talking about.
Will swapping cause something to fail? No.
Could it cause abnormal wear patterns? Yes.

 

[thebrakeman]

PS - Pics would be great.

 

[Fire488]

Ooops! My bad. I was talking about the fronts. The rears were identical with no grommet or flat spots. I am sorry about the pics, but the job is complete and I threw out all the old parts. I am searching the web for the genuine ford pins, but can only find aftermarket pics. But in my case neither the fronts nor the rears had rubber grommets. And only the fronts had one pin with flat, machined lands on them running the length of the pin. also, the round pin was coated in a blue substance. Not sure why....

 

[thebrakeman]

OK, sorry. I was looking at the 5th gen (current production) rears.