2011/12/13 Limited 3rd Row Power Fold Seats

[13Sport]

Also don't get me wrong, I turned around and ordered a brand new Sport after everything was finalized. The Explorer is by far the most comfortable best driving vehicle we have ever owned, but that didn't take away the pain I endured dealing with my $40,000 car that didn't perform as advertised. It also didn't compensate for the 14 times it was in the dealership in a 10 month period.

 

[Spengracin]

I can see the headlines now..... "Man's Explorer Rear Fold Down Seats being three quarters of an inch off leads to entire State of California not buying Ford products"....

While I see your issue, Ford still makes the best and most reliable fleet vehicles on the market. You should not take one personal situation into your work and bully everyone out of the sandbox. When the next manufacturer triples your operating budget in repairs, you might be looking at a job change... All over three quarters of an inch? There is a reason your entire fleet is Fords.... Past history and reliability.

If you feel that strong about it, seek arbitration, but keep your work out of it. Those decisions are just a knee jerk reaction to not hearing what you wanted to about your situation, IMHO.

Ron; as i respect everyones opinion on this site, my work is my business, and since i sign the checks that would be my knee jerk reaction for the lack of any action from Ford. The only way corporations understand anyone know a days is the pocket book.
Ron, just to let you know, Im gald you dont work for me, I dont accept " this is normal" in our job!

Have a nice day!

 

[Spengracin]

Or more people should sue Ford like I did. . . I guess I'm only allowed to say "I sued Ford and they have resolved the dispute to my satisfaction"... i can also say that I'm very uneasy to satisfy. Unfortunately until there are more ramifications in terms of monetary settlements, Ford has no reason to make any changes. Their cars, the explorer's in particular, aren't seeing any decline in sales... What motivation would Ford have to make any changes when there is no visible problem when looking at the financials?

While I agree that a 3/4" variance in a seat height might be a little extreme to be recommending an entire city change it's primary fleet manufacturer, I can also see how an entire city making such a move could stir up a media story that would force Ford's hand (at least in that region) to evaluate its customer service practices.

I've never been a litigious person, but I must say that the process was far and away more pleasant than trying to deal with Ford customer service. It's unfortunate that Ford has made it that way. What I tried to get accomplished through Ford's "recommended" channels of support for over a year, I was able to get accomplished through litigation in just a few months.

I agree with everything you say, 3/4 of inch would not be such a great deal, but the hieght difference is getting worse, again its not an issue if you dont try to use the back for loading or sliding items in the back, you have to lift them all the time. Lets face it, should I settle for this type of issue after paying 50k for a vehicle? Especially all the others are not this far off, and no one has reported one this far off also.

 

[RonJrSVCMGR]

Ron; as i respect everyones opinion on this site, my work is my business, and since i sign the checks that would be my knee jerk reaction for the lack of any action from Ford. The only way corporations understand anyone know a days is the pocket book.
Ron, just to let you know, Im gald you dont work for me, I dont accept " this is normal" in our job!

Have a nice day!

In the auto business, if FORD says it is normal and not to repair it, then that is exactly what we do... Otherwise we don't get paid. Do you like to get paid? Most of us do. We would LOVE to change out one or both seats if there was a hope of fixing it and we have to look to Ford to see if there IS a fix. In this case, there does not appear to be one AT THIS TIME. If Ford comes up with one, they will release a Technical Service Bulletin to repair it.

I would not want to work for a person that thinks like you do. It would be an unhealthy environment if this is how you react to not getting your way. We work hard in our business and cannot please everyone.

Not sure what you work in for public service, but how do you feel when you pay all those taxes and the roads are in horrible shape? Do you react by walking through the woods instead or,just deal with it until they pave the road? It's not like the transmission failed or the engine blew is my point.

 

[RonJrSVCMGR]

We could probably fix it the old fashioned way by giving it a good "tweak" with a little extra muscle, I am sure.

 

[13Sport]

We could probably fix it the old fashioned way by giving it a good "tweak" with a little extra muscle, I am sure.

The question is.. if a customer came in reporting this problem... would you attempt to fix it the old fashioned way to make the customer happy? Or would you accept Ford's recommendation to do nothing?

 

[RonJrSVCMGR]

I would ask the customer if they minded a "non-authorized attempt" at no charge (their only hope at that point). If it did not work, then no harm no foul. Would obviously not get to the point where you cause damage. I am sure, from a consumer point, that this would fix it. We have done it before for other concerns on other models to great success. We DO try to help where and when we can, but if that does not work, then I am sorry we cannot go any further.... Period.

 

[13Sport]

I would ask the customer if they minded a "non-authorized attempt" at no charge (their only hope at that point). If it did not work, then no harm no foul. Would obviously not get to the point where you cause damage. I am sure, from a consumer point, that this would fix it. We have done it before for other concerns on other models to great success. We DO try to help where and when we can, but if that does not work, then I am sorry we cannot go any further.... Period.

That would be a different experience than most of us are getting at the dealers, just FYI. Also for Ford to tell someone that "it's normal" when there are clearly others that are not experiencing the problem is asinine.

One of my experiences is similar. I complained a few weeks after purchasing the car that the brakes squealed during light braking conditions. Dealership came back at first said they couldn't reproduce the problem. Kept taking it in.. finally the dealership asked me to take the tech for a drive.. I did... he heard the problem, said "that's definitely not normal".

Ford told the tech that brake squeal is a normal condition.. they did nothing.

Fast forward 7 months.. a TSB is released addressing intermittent brake squeal. The tech that heard the original problem never noted it, however I do have records that I complained about the problem several times (over 5). The new tech couldn't reproduce the squeal (even though the TSB specifically states "intermittent"). The dealer refused to perform the TSB, and customer service said the dealership was correct in not performing the TSB because that would be (And I quote) "throwing parts at the car". The TSB described EXACTLY the issue I had described on numerous occasions.

How can you justify that as good customer service? I can understand the dealership not wanting to spend money on a fix they won't get reimbursed for, but the fix in the situation should have been performed under warranty. The issue isn't with the dealerships (or you), it's with Customer Service and Warranty Claims rejections. In my case the brakes were just one issue I was dissatisfied with, MFT ultimately led me to the lawsuit.

 

[RonJrSVCMGR]

I cannot speak for ALL dealers, only ours. As I stated before... if there is NO FIX, then we wait for a TSB to come out. When the TSB comes out, we fix it. We keep good records and if we previously verified an intermittent problem, then we fix the vehicle. Vehicle concerns NOT verified will NEVER be repaired. Show me the issue, or pick up a tissue....

The problem you have nowadays is customers walking in with every TSB there vehicle could possibly have and ask you to fix them (even if their vehicle does not have the problem... No dice.

 

[Helicopter]

How does the service department know that this is a defect and not him attempting to fold the seats down with an object in the way? He also noted screwed up headrests. I've known people to do some pretty stupid things to their vehicles and placing blame on everyone and everything else other than themselves. I'm not implying he actually damaged the seat mechanism on purpose or even by mistake, but I note the possibility and trying to get Ford to pay for it.

I will say throwing a temper tantrum over 3/4 of an inch is petty and ridiculous. Then threatening to take his ball home, as a public servant that can’t separate his personal issues from his business ones is the height of immaturity. If we’re talking about who’s boss is who’s, if I was his… he’d have some explaining to do and I’d be rethinking who I’m letting sign those checks as well as his overall judgment. I’d also be worried about the media attention and the fact that you’ve laid your case out here on a public forum. Once the media or whomever else discovers that the effluent storm he created for his department and superiors is over a “personal” ¾ inch “issue” with fold flat seats, I think he’d be laughed out of town and employment. If I was him I’d be careful of the waves I create. They may wipe him out as well. The law of unintended consequences applies here. Considering the financial state that California is in right now, I wouldn’t want to draw any unwanted attention to myself.

 

[RonJrSVCMGR]

Helicopter, That is EXACTLY what I was trying to say. Thank you!

 

[Spengracin]

Well, I had issues with my Nissan 350z. The dealer refused to fix the issues, Nissan customer service, much like Ford, said "there is no issue" .... After a year and a half dealing with Nissan, my lawyer had the car repurchased in under 60 days.

The explorer is riddled with issues, many of which the dealers will refuse to fix, or are denied warranty from Ford to fix. If you can prove that those issues are real, and you have undeniable records that you've reported the issues and were denied service or that service did not resolve the issues after a reasonable number of times, there's no arbitrator or judge in the world that is going to deny you restitution. in both of my cases the manufacturer's lawyers immediately recognized that they had no case and did whatever I asked to "make me happy", and like I said before, I'm not easily pleased.

Ford's response is to deny any claims and also deny anything is wrong, until a legal argument is brought forward and they can no longer deny it. I went through dealership, management, regional management, and a letter to customer relations with no resolve to my issues. My lawyer filed a lawsuit, and I no longer have an issue. Tell me that there's not something wrong w/ that mentality.

I have to agree with you sport, sometimes the extreme is the only avenue, what some folks just take from companies, that just accept, " that's the way it is, or that's normal" are very short side and don't have the consumers back, they accept mediocre quality, and work. I have had this Ex in for almost a year, over, and over for many issues, lift gate, window trim, a pillars 3 times, folding seats 4 times, etc. guess what it will be like winning the lottery, keep telling yourself that Ron! Take care of your customer base, they will always be loyal, it's a proven fact, period.
You know I like my fleet for the county, it's been great, but yes I can change that as I go, my choice only. But the reasoning will reach far more people, because of Fords handling of local consumers/users, not just me but everyone, who are not even on this forum. FYI don't by a 2013 Escape, really.
Sport pm me please, have a question

Thanks all, Perry

 

[Spengracin]

How does the service department know that this is a defect and not him attempting to fold the seats down with an object in the way? He also noted screwed up headrests. I've known people to do some pretty stupid things to their vehicles and placing blame on everyone and everything else other than themselves. I'm not implying he actually damaged the seat mechanism on purpose or even by mistake, but I note the possibility and trying to get Ford to pay for it.

I will say throwing a temper tantrum over 3/4 of an inch is petty and ridiculous. Then threatening to take his ball home, as a public servant that can’t separate his personal issues from his business ones is the height of immaturity. If we’re talking about who’s boss is who’s, if I was his… he’d have some explaining to do and I’d be rethinking who I’m letting sign those checks as well as his overall judgment. I’d also be worried about the media attention and the fact that you’ve laid your case out here on a public forum. Once the media or whomever else discovers that the effluent storm he created for his department and superiors is over a “personal” ¾ inch “issue” with fold flat seats, I think he’d be laughed out of town and employment. If I was him I’d be careful of the waves I create. They may wipe him out as well. The law of unintended consequences applies here. Considering the financial state that California is in right now, I wouldn’t want to draw any unwanted attention to myself.

It was noted from the beginning, before the car left the lot, duh! Do you have a3/4 inch difference, if not it would bug you, amoung other items throughout the year. Immature no, mad yes, just like others who been loyal for many years. If you think I'm the department your mistaken, the departments report to my office, don't you worry how it will look, I've been in this position of arbitration and consumer advocacy for years, I know the exact channels to follow. The media will be the plus for consumers who will not speak up, or we're previously afraid, and take the BS, their local dealers give them. Ford needs to step up, and get it right for the consumer, very simple. The law of untended will not apply here., really. Ron one last thing, for someone who works for Ford, you would think, being on the forum, you would help to the fullest, but really your just protecting your job I think, which I don't lame but really, you should not criticize others. Lastly Ford s not a bad manufacturer, they are just not handling the issues with the Ex very well at all, most my 11/ and early 12s. This is at te consumers expense also.

 

[Spengracin]

We could probably fix it the old fashioned way by giving it a good "tweak" with a little extra muscle, I am sure.

I would accept that for sure, just like the old days, this dealer, no, if it's not in the book, we don't fix it. Wish my old dealer was still around.

 

[RonJrSVCMGR]

I will help any REASONABLE person with any legitimate issue that has a fix available... Period. You are not being reasonable in any way, shape or form with your actions. Sure, you can sue and get what you want once, but do not think you can do this one vehicle after another. They catch up with that type of person pretty quick, since they have your entire history on file.....

By the way. Been at the same dealership for over 25 years. That does not happen these days without providing a level of service to customers that exceeds their expectations. In my job, I have folks come along like you from time to time and they get handled the same way as everyone else, we just keep good notes on you so we remember (although, how could you forget, really). Sometimes hearing the word "normal" just means there is no fix at this time. Sometimes it means nothing will fix it. When we are told that by a manufacturer, we have to pass it on to the consmer. We are not engineers at the dealership level and most people understand that. Most reasonable people accept it.... The there are the 1 percent that do what you are doing thinking it will cause everyone to rush after you for a fix for your vehicle or "suffer the consequences"...

I have helped out many folks on here in situations that COULD be helped. I will never be able to help anyone or any situation where there is not a fix. Good luck with your situation....

 

[Helicopter]

It was noted from the beginning, before the car left the lot, duh! Do you have a3/4 inch difference, if not it would bug you, amoung other items throughout the year. Immature no, mad yes, just like others who been loyal for many years. If you think I'm the department your mistaken, the departments report to my office, don't you worry how it will look, I've been in this position of arbitration and consumer advocacy for years, I know the exact channels to follow. The media will be the plus for consumers who will not speak up, or we're previously afraid, and take the BS, their local dealers give them. Ford needs to step up, and get it right for the consumer, very simple. The law of untended will not apply here., really. Ron one last thing, for someone who works for Ford, you would think, being on the forum, you would help to the fullest, but really your just protecting your job I think, which I don't lame but really, you should not criticize others. Lastly Ford s not a bad manufacturer, they are just not handling the issues with the Ex very well at all, most my 11/ and early 12s. This is at te consumers expense also.

No one here knows for sure if your "issue", and I use that term lightly, was there from delivery day. My other point is that you report to someone, and if I was that someone I'd really be questioning your judgment here. I'm sorry but your inability to separate what is a personal issue with your vehicle and letting yourself carry your irrational and emotional decisions in to your "professional" life is VERY immature. The law of unintended consequences certainly does apply here. If I'm a contracting officer for GM or Dodge and I'm aware of what you're doing via the media, I'm not so sure I'd want your business based on your behavior. Knowing what I do about GM and Dodge you’re opining a can of worms you’ll wish you didn’t. You’re also going to force a fleet change and reoutfitting of specialized vehicles based on a seat issue? Again, sorry, that’s absurd! I really don’t believe you’re thinking this through.

I mean, seriously... conference calls over a seat issue? I'm surprised you got the level of attention you did with this! I'd have told you to leave the seats up, get on with your life, and stop wasting everyone's time. There are people that have serious issues that need attention, a ¾ inch difference between the 2 seats when flat is a non-starter in my opinion. Just calling it the way I see it.

 

[VinceL]

Perry, we all should take a break and calm down. This will start getting personal and there is no need for that.

 

[FordService]

By the way I just wanted to say I know Cory does his best..it is not his fault that his hands are tied in many cases. I think he is a valuable asset to have here

Thank you for your kind words, phareous.

...I have helped out many folks on here in situations that COULD be helped. I will never be able to help anyone or any situation where there is not a fix. Good luck with your situation....

I also appreciate all you do to assist on these boards, RonJrSVCMGR. You’re a huge part of the community here.

I would accept that for sure, just like the old days...

...One of my experiences is similar...

Perry & 13Sport,

In case you missed my previous posts, please don’t hesitate to send me a PM any time and I’ll lend a hand.

Cory

 

[Spengracin]

Perry, we all should take a break and calm down. This will start getting personal and there is no need for that.

Sounds good Vince, thanks for the help.

 

[13Sport]

In case you missed my previous posts, please don’t hesitate to send me a PM any time and I’ll lend a hand.
Cory

I appreciate the gesture, my problems have all been taken care of though Unless you have some magic way to rush the Sport production timeline