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2011 stock for stock better than 2011 Grand Cherokee

And the 2010 GC SRT8 comes with run-flat performance tires. These type of tires are great at providing awesome grip in dry and wet conditions. In the snow- they suck. Off-road- they suck. And with 284/40/20 tires, you won't be going too far off-road anyway unless you like dented wheels. So basically, the 4x4 system on an SRT8 GC is just weight.

My 06 SRT was fine in the snow. No one should be on the roads during a major storm anyways, regardless of tire choice. If you have a job that it is necessary to be out and about during such events, the SRT is not for you.

The SRT is NOT an offroad vehicle. The 4X4 system in it, however, is quite good for providing added grip in snow. Far better then a typical RWD sports car thats for sure.
 



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Chrysler seems to have no problem offering RWD V-8 powered mid-size SUV's for the masses. What's Ford's problem?

Well, if you look in the past, which company required a "rescue package" from the gov to survive and who didn't?

As far as the V8 goes - that "8" is just a number. The V6 EcoBoost is a far better engine. Now if the Explorer would get that engine, would you still be looking for the V8? I'm just curious...
 






As far as the V8 goes - that "8" is just a number. The V6 EcoBoost is a far better engine. Now if the Explorer would get that engine, would you still be looking for the V8? I'm just curious...

Yes- logic does not, and will not- ever- work in this case. :)
 






And now you can guess who "JG Member #2" is.

Hint: He's posting on this forum, too...:D;)

Not sure if you mean me, but, yes I am on that forum and until I found out I was having a third child was ready to pull the trigger on an 11GC, now I want/need the Ex :D
 






Not sure if you mean me, but, yes I am on that forum and until I found out I was having a third child was ready to pull the trigger on an 11GC, now I want/need the Ex :D

No, that "underpants" post was actually mine...;)
 












Yep. Chrysler seems to have no problem offering RWD V-8 powered mid-size SUV's for the masses. What's Ford's problem?

So? People still buy them or Chrysler wouldn't still be building them. And the Flexplorer V-6 AWD gets a combined city/highway mpg of 19. And it only does 17 in the city and 23 on the hwy. Not a whole heckuva lot better than the Jeep.
Sure Chrysler offers RWD V8 powered vehicles but selling them is another thing. Why did they almost go out of business. Why hasn't Consumer Reports had a Dodge or Chrysler product on their recommended list for 2 years? It was because of their poor past performance.

As for mileage figures, I just received a brochure for the Canadian 2011 model and the specs for the Limited show 24 city, 35 hwy for FWD and 23 city, 32 hwy for 4WD. To the best of my knowledge, the Limited does not come is FWD so I'm wondering if the two sets of figures apply to the same vehicle but would be dependant upon whether you are using it in its normal FWD mode or whether you are running it in one of the TMS settings calling for 4WD.:scratch: Keep in mind our gallon = 1.2 US gallons.
 






I got those numbers from Flexplorer specs page.
 






For now. Maybe Ford is just the first of its kind. Maybe the others will follow suit and copy Ford with their SUVs.

I seriously doubt that. And I seriously hope not.

I think the expression you're looking for is:.

No, that wasn't the phrase I was looking for. It's a variation of the one I used. If I had wanted to use the rhyming one, I would have.

And my answer to that is: yes there is. It's called technology and forced induction.

The T/A in Smokey and The Bandit was a 6.6L pushrod piece of crap. It made something like 177 horsepower. There are 2 liter 4 bangers almost putting out that kind of power today without a turbo. And turbo 4 bangers putting out 300 hp from the factory.

So? If those engines had more displacement, they would be even more powerful. No substitute for cubic inches baby!

And back to the SRT8 GC- has anyone priced out a brake job for those massive binders (at least on the current GC)? I've heard you can't run down to your local Autozone and pick up pads and rotors. Dealer only parts. $1000 or so in parts alone will get you squared away.

Again, so? If you can afford the SRT8, then it goes without saying that you can afford the brake job.

And the 2010 GC SRT8 comes with run-flat performance tires. These type of tires are great at providing awesome grip in dry and wet conditions. In the snow- they suck. Off-road- they suck. And with 284/40/20 tires, you won't be going too far off-road anyway unless you like dented wheels. So basically, the 4x4 system on an SRT8 GC is just weight.

Even with those tires, a real 4x4 system would still give you more traction, safety, and security than a comparable (yeah, right) FWD vehicle.

As far as the V8 goes - that "8" is just a number. The V6 EcoBoost is a far better engine. Now if the Explorer would get that engine, would you still be looking for the V8? I'm just curious...

Yes. Yes I would. Because the Jeep is REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE. As long as the Flexplorer is wrong-wheel-drive, even if I could afford one, I wouldn't touch it with a ten meter cattle prod.
 






Yes. Yes I would. Because the Jeep is REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE. As long as the Flexplorer is wrong-wheel-drive, even if I could afford one, I wouldn't touch it with a ten meter cattle prod.

That has nothing to do with the fact that one is a V8 and the other is a V6.
 






Psst... thaywood- someone said that a member needed some help in the Stock 1991-1994 section... Try answering a few questions- or are you content to crest the 100+ post mark with 90+ posts on the 2011 Explorer? That would be kind of sad- we have lots of cool discussions to be a part of...
 






As for the powerplants and power: 6.1 > 5.7 > 5.0 > 3.5

Anyone that tows will agree, there is no replacement for displacement.

As for the styling and interior quality or design: >Your opinion<

As for the road and off-road capabilities: >Your opinion<

-----------------------------------------------------
1998 Mercury Mountaineer Awd 5.0L
1978 Ford F150 4x4 351cid
Chrysler 300C 5.7L
Nissan 350Z 3.5L
2004 Honda CRV 2wd 2.0L
.
 






I seriously doubt that. And I seriously hope not.

Let's rewind back to the height of the Explorer glory days- apparently 1994 according to you. If I were to have said back then that someday the Explorer would be FWD with a part-time all-wheel drive system, no one would have believed me. Yet here we are.......

Again, so? If you can afford the SRT8, then it goes without saying that you can afford the brake job.

So the SRT8 is a better vehicle for those with deep pockets. I gotcha. What about for the "average" consumer?

Even with those tires, a real 4x4 system would still give you more traction, safety, and security than a comparable (yeah, right) FWD vehicle.

So you might be able to propel yourself faster into a situation in which you can't turn or stop with those tires. Awesome. Regardless of how many tires are being driven, ALL VEHICLES have 4 wheel braking (except for duallies and other large multi-axle vehicles). Tires are really what matters. I can stop just as well if I have a 2wd, FWD, RWD, 4wd (assuming same tires, chassis, wheelbase, weight, speed.....).
 






Not disputing the numbers on the EXPLORER specs sheet. Just saying that perhaps the FWD mileage figures also apply to the 4WD model since it normally is in FWD mode. It would make sense that if you are not using 4WD all the time that your fuel consumption would be less. Just wondering.
 






That has nothing to do with the fact that one is a V8 and the other is a V6.

Okay. To clarify...even if the Flexplorer had a sideways V-8 driving the wrong wheels, I wouldn't touch it.:D

Psst... thaywood- someone said that a member needed some help in the Stock 1991-1994 section... Try answering a few questions- or are you content to crest the 100+ post mark with 90+ posts on the 2011 Explorer? That would be kind of sad- we have lots of cool discussions to be a part of...

Yeah. I know. I'm not having any problems with my '94 right now. And I love bashing that puny little wrong-wheel-drive joke on wheels so much I just can't stop myself. But you're right. I should probably provide my insight and mechanical knowledge in the GEN1 forum.:)

Let's rewind back to the height of the Explorer glory days- apparently 1994 according to you. If I were to have said back then that someday the Explorer would be FWD with a part-time all-wheel drive system, no one would have believed me. Yet here we are.......

Yeah. That is pretty sad.

So the SRT8 is a better vehicle for those with deep pockets. I gotcha. What about for the "average" consumer?

Yeah. Unfortunately, that's true. And the "average" consumer can buy the RWD/4x4 Grand Cherokee, Durango, 4-Runner, or Pathfinder if they wand a real RWD SUV with actual capabilities.

So you might be able to propel yourself faster into a situation in which you can't turn or stop with those tires. Awesome. Regardless of how many tires are being driven, ALL VEHICLES have 4 wheel braking (except for duallies and other large multi-axle vehicles). Tires are really what matters. I can stop just as well if I have a 2wd, FWD, RWD, 4wd (assuming same tires, chassis, wheelbase, weight, speed.....).

Actually, no. Any sensible person is going to proceed into any dangerous situation with caution. Even if you have 470hp on tap, it would be pretty stupid to go all out into a snow or ice covered highway no matter what kind of drive system you have. The point was that the Jeep's 4x4 drivetrain would make it safer no matter what kind of tires it has. Plus the Jeep's enormous brakes would make it much safer than most other vehicles.
 






As for the powerplants and power: 6.1 > 5.7 > 5.0 > 3.5

Anyone that tows will agree, there is no replacement for displacement.

As for the styling and interior quality or design: >Your opinion<

As for the road and off-road capabilities: >Your opinion<

-----------------------------------------------------
1998 Mercury Mountaineer Awd 5.0L
1978 Ford F150 4x4 351cid
Chrysler 300C 5.7L
Nissan 350Z 3.5L
2004 Honda CRV 2wd 2.0L
.


The Ecoboost that will be in the F150 WILL be able to tow 11,700 lbs- Oh and it's a V6
 






Yeah. Unfortunately, that's true. And the "average" consumer can buy the RWD/4x4 Grand Cherokee, Durango, 4-Runner, or Pathfinder if they wand a real RWD SUV with actual capabilities.

And yet those crazy "FWD sissymobiles" seem to be selling like hot cakes. Honda CR-V, Honda Pilot, Lexus RX series, Toyota Highlander, Toyota RAV4, Chevy Equinox, Chevy Traverse, GMC Terrain, GMC Arcadia, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot........ I could go on. They're everywhere. Sure there's still a need for a RWD 4x4 SUV, but in today's market, that need isn't nearly as big as it was 16 years ago (back in the glory days :rolleyes:).

Actually, no. Any sensible person is going to proceed into any dangerous situation with caution. Even if you have 470hp on tap, it would be pretty stupid to go all out into a snow or ice covered highway no matter what kind of drive system you have.

Says someone from the south. Here, when it snows, the grocery stores don't get cleared out, government offices don't close down and people go on about their lives like normal. We venture out onto those snow and ice covered highways all the time in the winter. And with the right tires (not a summer performance tire), you can do so with great control. Having a vehicle with too much power is going to get you into trouble much easier. Maybe in a perfect world, we would park our SRT8s next to our Ferraris when it snows and take our winter beater out.

The point was that the Jeep's 4x4 drivetrain would make it safer no matter what kind of tires it has.

Again, how many times has your ability to accelerate in the snow been a safety factor? Not many. People usually wreck in the snow due to their lack of ability to stop. The world's best 4x4 system doesn't do jack squat for you when you are braking.

Plus the Jeep's enormous brakes would make it much safer than most other vehicles.

There's another fallacy. Big brakes don't stop quicker. Big brakes only offer bigger heat sinks. Once again, it's tires that do the braking. Most brakes are capable of generating the required torque to lock up the wheel- at least until all those nancyboy electronic nannies kick in. Once you can achieve that, it's the tires. The SRT8's performance tires will be beneficial in braking on dry surfaces. The big brakes will also be beneficial for stopping when towing- all 3,500 pounds that it's rated for (most FWD sissymobile SUVs are also rated to tow about 3,500 lbs).
 






And yet those crazy "FWD sissymobiles" seem to be selling like hot cakes. Honda CR-V, Honda Pilot, Lexus RX series, Toyota Highlander, Toyota RAV4, Chevy Equinox, Chevy Traverse, GMC Terrain, GMC Arcadia, Jeep Compass, Jeep Patriot........ I could go on. They're everywhere. Sure there's still a need for a RWD 4x4 SUV, but in today's market, that need isn't nearly as big as it was 16 years ago (back in the glory days :rolleyes:).

Yeah. That's pretty sad. It's mostly because the "average" vehicle buyer today doesn't know or care which wheels are pulling the car or how the engine is oriented under the hood. And that is a testamant to the sad state of the American consumer.

Says someone from the south.

Yeppers.

Here, when it snows, the grocery stores don't get cleared out,

They did where I live.

government offices don't close down,

The one where I work did.

and people go on about their lives like normal.

Well sort of. My son's school was closed for three days. So my life didn't exactly go along like normal.

We venture out onto those snow and ice covered highways all the time in the winter.

Yep. When/if we have to. If I don't absolutely need to venture out, I don't. And if I do, I'm very very very careful.

And with the right tires (not a summer performance tire), you can do so with great control.

I can't afford different tires for different seasons. I can barely afford the tires that are on our vehicles now. So that doesn't apply to me. I have to drive with whatever kind of tires are on the car/truck at the time.

Having a vehicle with too much power is going to get you into trouble much easier.

Not if you know how to drive it.

Maybe in a perfect world, we would park our SRT8s next to our Ferraris when it snows and take our winter beater out.

Yep. That would be nice. Unfortunately, I can afford neither. That's why I drive a 16 year old Exploder and a 14 year old Mark VIII, and my wife drives a 13 year old Mark VIII. That's all we can afford. But I love my Lincolns and my Ex. Wouldn't give 'em up for any of these "modern" vehicles (unless, of course, somebody would "give" me a Mercedes E55 AMG or a BMW M6 or something like that:D).

Again, how many times has your ability to accelerate in the snow been a safety factor? Not many. People usually wreck in the snow due to their lack of ability to stop. The world's best 4x4 system doesn't do jack squat for you when you are braking.

The ability to accelerate in the snow has been of use to me a couple of times. Especially when you have to get out of the way of that car that couldn't stop and is about to crash into you.

There's another fallacy. Big brakes don't stop quicker.

Yes they do. That's why vehicles with bigger brakes stop quicker than vehicles with smaller brakes. That's why the aftermarket offers larger brake upgrade kits for just about all vehicles. That's why high performance cars/trucks/SUV's have bigger brakes than their pedestrian siblings. Bigger brakes mean larger swept area and better cooling, contributing to shorter stopping distances compared to smaller brakes.

Big brakes only offer bigger heat sinks. Once again, it's tires that do the braking.

In a way. The tires provide the traction so the brakes can do their job. By your logic, two comparable vehicles should stop in exactly the same distance if one has 12" discs and the other has 9" discs but the same size/type of tires. That just simply ain't true.

Most brakes are capable of generating the required torque to lock up the wheel- at least until all those nancyboy electronic nannies kick in.

The only "nancyboy electronics" that I like is anti-lock brakes. The ABS on several vehicles I've owned in the past have saved my bacon on several occasions. The ABS on my '94 Ex made it much easier to drive on the ice covered roads around home after the last snow we had. Oh, and the traction control on my Lincoln Mark VIII also made it go much better in the snow and ice as well. Other electronic "nannies" such as stability control, roll control, etc. are unnecessary if you know how to drive. That's the problem with most drivers. They don't know how to drive their vehicles properly. And when they slide off into a ditch or something like that, they scratch their heads and wonder why the car didin't do something to warn them. Hence all the various electronic gizmos that newer cars have to help intervene when drivers push their vehicles beyond their limits. If this country had any kind of actual driver's education system that was worth a dam, none of that would be necessary, in my opinion.

Once you can achieve that, it's the tires. The SRT8's performance tires will be beneficial in braking on dry surfaces. The big brakes will also be beneficial for stopping when towing- all 3,500 pounds that it's rated for (most FWD sissymobile SUVs are also rated to tow about 3,500 lbs).

The SRT8 is a performance SUV. It's not a practical SUV. It's made to go fast, handle great, and stop short and true. And look real good doing it. And it succeeds on all those points. Honestly, I haven't seen an SRT8 towing anything. And that's fine. It wasn't made for that. And that's okey. It's got a 6.1L Hemi making 425hp!!!! And it's real fast!!! That's all that matters in one of those.
 



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The Ecoboost that will be in the F150 WILL be able to tow 11,700 lbs- Oh and it's a V6


Yep. It's a V-6. A highly stressed, twin turbocharged V-6. Sure it's powerful and torquey. And it'll tow a lot of weight. But just wait until all that high tech stuff starts to break and you have to take out a second mortgage to get it fixed. Then you'll wish you had that good ol' American V-8.;)
 






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