2011 stock for stock better than 2011 Grand Cherokee

[2TimingTom]

Yes they do. That's why vehicles with bigger brakes stop quicker than vehicles with smaller brakes. That's why the aftermarket offers larger brake upgrade kits for just about all vehicles. That's why high performance cars/trucks/SUV's have bigger brakes than their pedestrian siblings. Bigger brakes mean larger swept area and better cooling, contributing to shorter stopping distances compared to smaller brakes.

The sole function of a brake pad/rotor is to convert kinetic energy into heat energy. Having a larger rotor allows for a larger heat sink.

If you have a vehicle that is capable of locking up the tires, it will see no benefit in "initial" stopping distance with a big brake kit. The brakes can only lock up the tires (which isn't great for stopping distance, but does prove that it can generate the clamping power to lock up the wheels), the rest is up to the friction between the rubber and road. Repeated subsequent use of the brakes (like towing down an incline, or high performance driving- lapping/road racing) will increase the temp of the brakes and a larger brake kit will be beneficial because of the larger heat sink the rotors provide. And if you were to further abuse your tires (probably only possible while performance driving) and overheat the tires, you'd also increase your stopping distance.

Take for example the same car's ability to stop on a variety of surfaces with the same brakes and tires- dry, wet, gravel, snow, ice. I arranged those surfaces in order of increasing stopping distance. Nothing has changed at the brakes, only at the friction interface between the tires and the road.

Why are big brake kits available for so many different applications? Because alot of people love to spend money on their vehicles. The automotive aftermarket industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. Few people buy big brake kits for peformance, most buy them for looks. Plain and simple. Big brakes look MUCH better behind a wheel than small brakes.

One of the best ways to decrease your stopping distance and overall dry (and sometimes wet) performance of your vehicle is to get a good set of sticky tires. Trust me on this. I've autocrossed and lapped cars with street tires, decent summer tires and race tires while leaving the brakes untouched. Tires are the single biggest factor in changing your vehicles performance.

High performance pads/rotors/brake lines/brake fluid can help with stopping distance due to their better initial bite and temperature resistance, but tires are really what slows a vehicle down.

I've spent about 8 years involved in autocrossing, lap days, and road racing. I've read dozens of books/magazines about brake systems, tires, chassis set ups, suspensions, and driving techniques. I've attended a few performance driving schools. I'm not just trying to argue for the sake of arguing- although it is fun.

In a way. The tires provide the traction so the brakes can do their job. By your logic, two comparable vehicles should stop in exactly the same distance if one has 12" discs and the other has 9" discs but the same size/type of tires.

Correct- if heat doesn't become an issue.

 

[unclemeat]

Can we get back on subject here?

This is an Explorer enthusiast site, so I would expect explorer to kick a jeeps a$$ every time. But seriosly, lets talk price. I have not done any research, because one I dont like and the other is a jeep, but explorers have historically kicked jeeps butt for actual value.

So how much for entry and how much for top shelf?

 

[barho]

It's got a 6.1L Hemi making 425hp!!!! And it's real fast!!! That's all that matters in one of those.

420HP for the Jeep SRT8. 425HP for the other SRT units

Back on topic, looking forward to test driving the new Ex soon. Need the thrid row, and I don't really care for the new Durango (although the R/T loks nice, but not currently available).

Just wish the Ex loaded with everything I want (DVD, Park Assist, etc) wasn't pushing $50K:thumbdwn:

 

[GuardianSport]

How practical would it be to retrofit a 3.5 AWD/4WD ecoboost out of the new F150 into say... a 2000 Ford Explorer?

 

[username1]

i like the look of the gc better, but if i was in the market for a new car i would look at the x.the new x will meet most ppls needs (mine included).the best car i ever had out in bad weather was a awd town and country mini van it went the everything.

 

[JCat]

Interesting that neither the Grand Cherokee or Explorer have frames . . . both are unibody.

The 4Runners and Pathfinders do have frames.

 

[Joe Dirt]

I can confirm the Chrysler-esque interior. It is nice, but it's not a Ford interior.

 

[thaywood]

The sole function of a brake pad/rotor is to convert kinetic energy into heat energy. Having a larger rotor allows for a larger heat sink.

If you have a vehicle that is capable of locking up the tires, it will see no benefit in "initial" stopping distance with a big brake kit. The brakes can only lock up the tires (which isn't great for stopping distance, but does prove that it can generate the clamping power to lock up the wheels), the rest is up to the friction between the rubber and road. Repeated subsequent use of the brakes (like towing down an incline, or high performance driving- lapping/road racing) will increase the temp of the brakes and a larger brake kit will be beneficial because of the larger heat sink the rotors provide. And if you were to further abuse your tires (probably only possible while performance driving) and overheat the tires, you'd also increase your stopping distance.

Take for example the same car's ability to stop on a variety of surfaces with the same brakes and tires- dry, wet, gravel, snow, ice. I arranged those surfaces in order of increasing stopping distance. Nothing has changed at the brakes, only at the friction interface between the tires and the road.

Why are big brake kits available for so many different applications? Because alot of people love to spend money on their vehicles. The automotive aftermarket industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. Few people buy big brake kits for peformance, most buy them for looks. Plain and simple. Big brakes look MUCH better behind a wheel than small brakes.

One of the best ways to decrease your stopping distance and overall dry (and sometimes wet) performance of your vehicle is to get a good set of sticky tires. Trust me on this. I've autocrossed and lapped cars with street tires, decent summer tires and race tires while leaving the brakes untouched. Tires are the single biggest factor in changing your vehicles performance.

High performance pads/rotors/brake lines/brake fluid can help with stopping distance due to their better initial bite and temperature resistance, but tires are really what slows a vehicle down.

I've spent about 8 years involved in autocrossing, lap days, and road racing. I've read dozens of books/magazines about brake systems, tires, chassis set ups, suspensions, and driving techniques. I've attended a few performance driving schools. I'm not just trying to argue for the sake of arguing- although it is fun.



Correct- if heat doesn't become an issue.

Instead of picking this apart, I'll just say that I disagree with everything you said. If the size of the brakes make no difference, all cars would have exactly the same brakes. Upgrades would be irrelevent. I speak from personal experience. I had a 1987 4-cly/5-speed Mustang with 10" front rotors and 9" drums in the back. I converted the whole suspension, shocks/struts/sway bars/brakes, to '88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe parts. That included 11" front rotors and 10" rear rotors. The car's braking power was noticeably improved. And that was with the same set of P225/60R15 tires it had with the original setup. I've driven enough cars/trucks/SUV's with different brakes to know that bigger brakes improve stopping power regardless of tires.

 

[2TimingTom]

Instead of picking this apart, I'll just say that I disagree with everything you said. If the size of the brakes make no difference, all cars would have exactly the same brakes. Upgrades would be irrelevent. I speak from personal experience. I had a 1987 4-cly/5-speed Mustang with 10" front rotors and 9" drums in the back. I converted the whole suspension, shocks/struts/sway bars/brakes, to '88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe parts. That included 11" front rotors and 10" rear rotors. The car's braking power was noticeably improved. And that was with the same set of P225/60R15 tires it had with the original setup. I've driven enough cars/trucks/SUV's with different brakes to know that bigger brakes improve stopping power regardless of tires.

You obviously know nothing about heat and heat generation and the detrimental effects of heat to braking systems.

I also have practical experience from modifying the brake system (which includes tires) in racing applications- not seat of the pants street observations.

Re-read my reply and pay particular attention to the closing statement about HEAT.

 

[thaywood]

Your closing statement pretty much said that two identical cars with identical wheels/tires would stop in exactly the same distance even if they had vastly different brakes. That's bull and you know it. Unfortunately, all the experience I've had is with my own vehicles and the several years that I worked as a mechanic. I've modified brake systems as well. And even though I've never performed any instrumented tests, anyone with any mechanical experience at all will tell you that bigger brakes provide a larger swept area and therefore, proportionally more grip, better heat resistance, and thus more stopping power. Yes, larger brakes also provide better heat dissipation than smaller brakes. That, too helps gain more stopping power by keeping the brakes cooler. I'm sorry, but given the choice between a set of 11" rotors and 13" rotors, I'll take the 13" rotors, no matter what kind of tires I have. I can't see us agreeing on this. So we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[edge929]

Having raced motorcycles for 8 years I can say from experience stopping power comes down to this order:

1) Tires (ie traction)
2) Braking technology (ie drum vs rotors/discs/calipers)
3) Brake pads (specifically compound)
4) Brake lines (steel or kevlar braided for less expansion, better feel)
5) Size of rotors (definitely helps WHEN RACING/constant use, larger heatsink to dissipate heat)
6) Vented or non-vented rotors

My 2 cents.

 

[unclemeat]

Braking is also dependent on suspension.

Independent suspension with limited wheel travel is great for pavement and is poor for offroad.

 

[tmike]

Braking is also dependent on suspension.

Independent suspension with limited wheel travel is great for pavement and is poor for offroad.

Maybe you need to look into Baja OFFROAD racing!

 

[edge929]

Maybe you need to look into Baja OFFROAD racing!

I think that's why he threw in the "limited wheel travel" bit

 

[unclemeat]

A HUMVEE has independent suspension with like 18-inches of wheel travel, and still has skid plates.

A Raptor has independent front suspension with like 13-inches of wheel travel, and still has skid plats.

An explorer has indpendent suspension and like 4-inches of wheel travel, and no skid plates, but plenty of things to hang up on.

Hey I have a 05 explorer, I know what limitations I am talking about.

 

[JDraper]

Moderator time here folks. This is going into all threads on the '11 Explorer.

I know there are those of you out there that do not like the new Explorer. I'm fine with that and you are entitled to your opinion. HOWEVER I am tired of people bashing the '11 without ever driving one, sitting in one, or in some cases seeing one. If you have experience with one and don't like a feature or how it drives or how it failed you somehow, please post up about it. I've already found stuff I don't like and posted up about it, and I'm sure that there are other features/items that I will find that I don't like either.

If you don't like the fact that Ford called this an Explorer and you feel that the name is tarnished, don't whine here, it won't do any good. You'll just piss people off. Sent a note to Ford and complain to them. If enough people don't like the re-design and tell Ford, maybe they will take that into consideration.


If anyone persists in continued bashing or sniping (as in any other forum on the site), you will become eligible for a vacation from the site of an undetermined length.


Please do not respond to this post saying F-You or Thank You...That's not why it's here. Just read it and continue on.

Thank You.

On Edit..a healthy debate is always welcome on here. Please do not take it as different opinions are not allowed. It's the bashing that needs to stop.

 

[JanChristian]

For the guys saying the AWD on the Grand Cherokee SRT8 is just useless added weight, you're overlooking the obvious: it hooks! It's quicker than almost all of the other SRTs due to its off-the-line traction. Go to a SRT Track Experience, you'll be amazed at what that vehicle (and the others) are capable of.

 

[unclemeat]

The 2011 grand cherokee is the Four Wheeler magazine four wheeler of the year.

 

[thaywood]

Just skimmed through an article in...I think it was Car & Driver (I can't remember) doing a semi-comparison of the '11 Flexplorer and the '11 Grand Cherokee. It said both were good vehicles, but they enjoyed driving the Grand Cherokee more. It also said that the Flexplorer was made for people who prefer cars while the Grand Cherokee was made for people who prefer a capable SUV that does what an SUV is supposed to do. I thought that was interesting.

 

[Thrumcap]

I'm not even sure why they compare the two as they seem to be in different classes. The Grand Cherokee has seating for 5 and very limited cargo capacity. In fact the Grand Cherokee has the same cargo capacity as a VW Jetta Wagon. Not much utility there. Looks like a nice vehicle inside and out but should not be compared to the Explorer.