2014 Explorer Rear Body Bracket Welding Issues

[Molina55]

I recently bought a 2014 Explorer XLT with the polished alloy wheels. I absolutely loved it. Within a month, however, I started hearing a creaking sound inside towards the rear right hand side of the vehicle, like something was loose. I took it to the dealer service center and left it there for them to take a look at it. A couple of days later, they called me saying that the brackets along the frame on the rear tailgater were not welded correctly, so they were sending it to a body shop for the brackets to be re-welded. They called me a second time saying that they had fixed the problem by spot welding it, but there was the same noise in a slightly different area. They called me a third time saying that they will have to repeat the process until the noise was gone and they wouldn't know how long this would take. As of today it has been 2 weeks since I dropped it off at the dealership. In the meantime, my wife and I are sharing a car because Ford doesn't have courtesy vehicles when stuff like this happens. I'm also making payments on it and I'm not even driving it.

I called Ford to let them know of the situation and their relationship manager will get back to me within 48 hours.

At this point, I don't want a vehicle that has been spot welded together to correct massive incompetence in the manufacturing/assembly process. I bought this vehicle for damn near $40K and I'll be damned if I end up with a vehicle with a frame that amounts to patchwork. My wife and I just had twin daughters, which is why I bought the vehicle to begin with and I refuse to drive this thing with them in it.

I have requested a new Explorer, but I'm sure Ford will do their damnest to make sure I stay with this one, patchwork and all. Apparently, Ford is no stranger to welding issues over the years. This should be interesting and I'm prepared to take legal action. I just wanted to post here in case anybody had similar issues. I will post an update when I speak with the relationship manager.

Feel free to leave any feedback or to share similar stories. Thanks for your time and for letting me vent.

 

[1995E]

Lemon law. They have tried multiple times and still can't correct the issue and it's been a long time in the shop. I wouldn't take a car with missing welds because if the frame comes apart on the highway then that could result in a serious accident. Google lemon law and you'll find the lawyers. They help you for free and they don't charge you a dime even if you don't win.

 

[Molina55]

Hey, 1996E, thanks for the suggestion. I'm hoping it won't get to this. I'll post an update soon.

 

[1995E]

Also, if you don't want that route, try contacting the customer support representatives here. They are usually really helpful. I myself would accept nothing but an exchange for another vehicle if it came with a weld problem from factory. Especially because this is a unibody frame and can be a real safety hazard in terms of an accident because you don't know the integrity of the vehicle's bodily structure without the proper welds. If you hear sounds, it is definitely because some part of the body is shifting. Hopefully the dealer and Ford does the right thing and swap you a new Explorer.

 

[Sgt1411]

Lemon Law

I returned a 2011 Explorer.

Dont take that vehicle back, I know its different in every State but as stated above get a hold of a lawyer and educate yourself for the time that Ford starts to push you back into the defective vehicle.

My understanding is that its common to make a claim for situations like 3 failed tries at fixing a single problem or the vehicle being out of service for 30+ days trying to fix issues.

 

[dco43054]

The Lemon Laws vary by state. A body squeak may not count.

 

[dtr]

The Lemon Laws vary by state. A body squeak may not count.

it is not the squeak it is the lack of a weld joint and structural integrity for driving or a crash.

I would see a body shop or mechanic in addition to an attorney.

If you have a few bad welds that can be fixed by mig welding that is one thing. If the welds are bad over a large region with numerous spot welds that is another thing.

Lots of cars have a bad spot weld or two. They are not high reliability. So car companies put many more spot welds into a vehicle than needed so if one or two is bad the car is still fine. this typically over compensates for any weld reliability concern as you have more than enough good welds. Lots of people reading this have bad spot welds on any brand of car

you unfortunately have a string or cluster of bad welds that require repair. I do not know if it is limited to that string or the scope of weld failures is larger.

 

[dco43054]

it is not the squeak it is the lack of a weld joint and structural integrity for driving or a crash.

Really? You have seen the vehicle and inspected the welds and are a structural engineer and are providing your professional opinion?!

I would be irritated for sure. But I would also be waiting to see the ultimate problem and review the repair, and then make a decision on a course of action.

 

[dtr]

Really? You have seen the vehicle and inspected the welds and are a structural engineer and are providing your professional opinion?!

I would be irritated for sure. But I would also be waiting to see the ultimate problem and review the repair, and then make a decision on a course of action.

IF the op is making a mountain out of a mole hill then you are correct

If he has a weld failures that are taking 2 weeks to repair with metal to metal movement where welds should be then yes it is a structural issue that should be fixed.

 

[Molina55]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. The problem is larger than I initially thought. Just to clarify, it's not a matter of just hearing a squeak, it's a matter of them identifying the problem, re-welding, the problem persisting, them re-welding, the problem persisting again and them telling me that they have to continue the re-welding process until it's fixed.

I spoke with the regional relationship manager and he said the issue should be fixed by Monday. That's going on 3 weeks at the shop trying to fix welding issues on a brand new $40K vehicle I've had for 2 months with less than 2500 miles on it. Think about that for a second.

I told the RRM that the only way I would take the vehicle back is if a Ford engineer, not a dealer guy or a body shop guy, but a Ford engineer thoroughly inspected the vehicle and can guarantee in writing that the unibody frame's integrity has not been compromised in any way. I bought this as a family vehicle and I'm not going to drive my family around in this unless I am 100% sure of their safety. Would you?

Also, Ford will not provide a rental unless I bite the bullet first and then they will reimburse me after 2 weeks. This is absolutely unacceptable, especially since I'm paying for a car I am not driving.

All said and done, I think I'm being extremely flexible and I have treated everyone with respect and kindness, but I'm also not going to be taken advantage of.

Anyway, thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[dco43054]

I will call this what it is - a wild guess from 1,000 miles away since I have not seen your vehicle - but my guess is the Service depatment was wrong to begin with in diagnosing your problem, but started down a repair path they thought would fix the issue. And it didn't. So they tried again, until they found it.

If they haven't provided you with a loaner and you have out of pocket expenses for one, that's definitely something that Ford should cover. Many dealers provide one on new vehicles for warranty issues.

And since this has been going on for multiple weeks, a reasonable request is for Ford to make a loan or lease payment if you have one, since you have been without your vehicle and will have been paying for it.

If you read through this forum, you will see that Ford (and not a dealer) has done similar things for extended repairs.

On top of that, IMHO, the should throw in some swag - floor mats, cargo cover, whatever, for your troubles. This is also usual in cases like this.

And above all - if you aren't getting good communication, engage one of the Ford reps who hang out on this site. Take a look through any problem thread, you'll find them there. PM them and you will get a response.

 

[FordService]

...I spoke with the regional relationship manager and he said the issue should be fixed by Monday...

Hi Molina55,

I want to look into this to see how I can help. If you have a case number, you can PM me that. If not, send your full name, best daytime phone number, VIN, mileage, and servicing dealership in a PM and I'll start investigating some options.

Crystal

 

[Molina55]

Hey dco43054, you may or may not be right, but I appreciate your feedback and suggestions. At this point I really don't know, man. I just don't want a car that is unsafe. I originally went with the Explorer because of the safety rating and because my family had Explorers all throughout the 90s and early 2000s, but this issue certainly does not give me peace of mind. The body shop has been working on it for almost 3 weeks now. The service manager at the dealership has been incredibly helpful and kind and I could not ask for better service from them. He even sent me pictures of the welding work that's being done. Also, the RRM was prompt in contacting me and was very helpful over the phone. Service has not been an issue, the product is the issue. I don't fault anybody really, it just seems to be one of those things. However, I am expecting Ford to do the right thing. I have faith.

I'll keep you posted, guys. Thanks again for your feedback and your time.

 

[dtr]

I spoke with the regional relationship manager and he said the issue should be fixed by Monday. That's going on 3 weeks at the shop trying to fix welding issues on a brand new $40K vehicle I've had for 2 months with less than 2500 miles on it. Think about that for a second.

I told the RRM that the only way I would take the vehicle back is if a Ford engineer, not a dealer guy or a body shop guy, but a Ford engineer thoroughly inspected the vehicle and can guarantee in writing that the unibody frame's integrity has not been compromised in any way.

You need to hire your own independent body shop tech or mechanic. Some one who has weld repaired vehicles before to assess this for you. You might want someone your attorney would be comfortable with if you have to go down that road.

You need someone representing you to inspect and determine if this is a structural issue , how significant, and if the repair is adequate. IMO

I do not understand how it can take this long to repair. Is it that big of an issue? Are they not competent to make the weld repair? Or is a repair not feasible? Are they simply not working on your EX? Is there another explanation?

Right now you have no proof of much of anything including what exactly is wrong and the extent of the problem. Pictures, documentation and a clear definition of the problem may be required in the future and you do not seem to have that today.

Lots of things including cars can often be weld repaired. Why is it taking over 2 weeks to repair your EX with out a solution?

 

[Molina55]

Hey guys, I just wanted to post a quick update.

I spoke with the shop and the EX is fixed but they are painting the internal panels and it should be ready Monday afternoon.

Regarding the lemon law, I spoke with an attorney and he suggested I let Ford do their thing for now. As it stands, I don't have a case unless the vehicle is out of service for 30+days and/or they have attempted to fix it unsuccessfully 3 times.

I'm very disappointed to say the least, as now I'm not driving a new car, but a heavily repaired one. I'll post a final update once the case is closed. Thanks.

 

[dtr]

Hey guys, I just wanted to post a quick update.

I spoke with the shop and the EX is fixed but they are painting the internal panels and it should be ready Monday afternoon.

Regarding the lemon law, I spoke with an attorney and he suggested I let Ford do their thing for now. As it stands, I don't have a case unless the vehicle is out of service for 30+days and/or they have attempted to fix it unsuccessfully 3 times.

I'm very disappointed to say the least, as now I'm not driving a new car, but a heavily repaired one. I'll post a final update once the case is closed. Thanks.

I can not comment on your repair as I have not seen it.

But in general weld repairs of various items can be as good or better than the original. So if done right you should not have anything to be worrying about.

There are times when weld repairs are not effective for various reasons and the 2 week issue concerned me from your posts.

I would not request swag from ford as I do not care about that, but I would ask for an extended warranty for this one issue from ford in writing beyond the standard warranty. If they fixed it right they should provide it and if the did not fix it right it appears as if they have sold you a defective item with a defective or inadequate repair IMO.

Good Luck

 

[Quicksilver]

I can not comment on your repair as I have not seen it.

But in general weld repairs of various items can be as good or better than the original. So if done right you should not have anything to be worrying about.

There are times when weld repairs are not effective for various reasons and the 2 week issue concerned me from your posts.

I would not request swag from ford as I do not care about that, but I would ask for an extended warranty for this one issue from ford in writing beyond the standard warranty. If they fixed it right they should provide it and if the did not fix it right it appears as if they have sold you a defective item with a defective or inadequate repair IMO.

Good Luck

^This Molina55. I have a few steet cars that see racetrack duty, they are not 'race' cars per se which are built to substantially higher crash worthyness and structural rigidity than street cars. One of the tricks that I've done to my cars to make them both stiffer (less twist is better for handling, braking, acceleration) and safer is to 'seam weld' the K members, frame rails, suspension pick up points etc. As you have discoverd, all of these ares are spot welded from the production line. When a manufacturer wants a truly strong weld, they wire weld (MIG) it. Things like motor mounts or engine cradles are MIG welded for extra rigidity. I can take an 80's unibody car that twists like a noodle and make it so much stiffer that when I jack it up from a rearward point, the front of the car will raise as well, it makes a huge difference. My long winded point is, I would NOT be worried about the strength of you repairs, IMO they are upgrades that I spend hours and hours doing on my project cars.

 

[dtr]

^This Molina55. I have a few steet cars that see racetrack duty, they are not 'race' cars per se which are built to substantially higher crash worthyness and structural rigidity than street cars. One of the tricks that I've done to my cars to make them both stiffer (less twist is better for handling, braking, acceleration) and safer is to 'seam weld' the K members, frame rails, suspension pick up points etc. As you have discoverd, all of these ares are spot welded from the production line. When a manufacturer wants a truly strong weld, they wire weld (MIG) it. Things like motor mounts or engine cradles are MIG welded for extra rigidity. I can take an 80's unibody car that twists like a noodle and make it so much stiffer that when I jack it up from a rearward point, the front of the car will raise as well, it makes a huge difference. My long winded point is, I would NOT be worried about the strength of you repairs, IMO they are upgrades that I spend hours and hours doing on my project cars.

I agree with everything you say when welding on good clean steel. You make good points.

But to make up a hypothetical situation, if the original spot welds failed or were substandard due to to a weird contamination issue. Depending on the type and levels of contamination it may or may not lead to substandard or failing MIG welds. IF the repair facility eventually identified and eliminated the contamination issue the repairs would be better as you said so well. IF the repair facility had trouble welding did not identify the root cause and did not clean the contamination then the MIG welds would not be ideal. (they could be still be better than the spot welds in a standard EX or they could be worse depending on various issues).

While everything may be fine there are always exceptions. All I am adding if they did it right they should not have a problem extending the warranty for this one issue as you so eloquently pointed out if they repaired it properly it is an upgrade.

 

[Molina55]

Update

So it's been two weeks since I got the Explorer back. The creaking came back within a week, but now on week two, it has friends. I feel like I'm driving a sh!tty bus through rural Mexico. On top of that, the shop where they did the "work" dinged the front bumper and instead of fixing it, they just painted over the crack. I'm waiting on a response from the dealer on this and also documentation of what was done as a "repair." Also, in order for the AC to come on, I have to turn it on to maximum and wait about 15 seconds before any air comes out.

The "relationship" manager, which I seriously think these clowns are only there to save Ford every penny they can, gave me a 5 year extended warranty but refused to pro-rate my monthly payment even though I didn't drive the damn thing for almost 3 weeks. I'm guessing it's because, you know, Ford can't be out $450 bucks. I also didn't get rental, so my wife and I had to get creative sharing her car to get to work. I'm assuming Ford can't cover that either, it must be lean times at Ford. So really, they gave me nothing for the inconvenience. They gave me a promise that if they POS they sold me should break down within 5 years, they would fix it.

So here we are again, in a worse situation than when I first posted in here and all I'm left with is frustration and a serious case of buyer's remorse. I seriously hope it's a lemon so I can take these clowns to court and I can then go buy somewhere else.

I'm sorry if I'm frustrated and angry, but after entering into a contract to pay $40K for this car, the least they could have done is the right thing. Fortunately we have social media so I can spread the word and make sure that everybody I know is aware of the type of products Ford is putting out these days and how they "solve" their problems.

Extremely disappointed to say the least.

 

[1995E]

If you are having bad service and they are giving you a hard time despite you are the customer, especially if they caused damage, do the right thing for yourself and lemon law the car. Go put your money somewhere else instead of waste your time.