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2020 Engineering Flaws

RichC_111

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My 2018 Sport is coming off lease in a few months, so test drove a 2020 ST to see if I wanted to turn it in. There is NOTHING I like better on the 2020 ST than my 2018. So, guess I'm buying out my lease.. Have a 2004 Eddie Bauer as well, and Ford did the same thing there. I also love the 2004 EB (and it's still going strong with >250K miles), and Ford discontinued it. I don't get why Ford discontinues lines/options that people like?
 


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Sgt1411

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My 2018 Sport is coming off lease in a few months, so test drove a 2020 ST to see if I wanted to turn it in. There is NOTHING I like better on the 2020 ST than my 2018. So, guess I'm buying out my lease.. Have a 2004 Eddie Bauer as well, and Ford did the same thing there. I also love the 2004 EB (and it's still going strong with >250K miles), and Ford discontinued it. I don't get why Ford discontinues lines/options that people like?

As it was explained to me by several Engineers other then a model redo or refresh its usually the NHTSA safety standards that dictate changes like the termination of a particular generation of vehicles.

One of the best examples of this was the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (CVPI)

Probably the most beloved cop car ever made, loved by almost all Fleet Managers and cops alike. So in 2011 NHTSA roof crush standards dictated a specific change to increase the safety standards that the CVPI did not meet. The Engineers explained to me that it simply didn't make sense to spend millions to re-engineer the roof of a 20 year old vehicle with 20 year old everything else. So the CVPI was discontinued and far less engineering dollars went into the conversion of the Explorer and Taurus into a pursuit rated police vehicle where everything is modern, not just the roof.
 




peterk9

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My 2018 Sport is coming off lease in a few months, so test drove a 2020 ST to see if I wanted to turn it in. There is NOTHING I like better on the 2020 ST than my 2018. So, guess I'm buying out my lease.........................................
The one thing that would be better is that you won't have to worry about the water pump possibly destroying the engine. The 2020 has an external one.

Peter
 




J_C

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The Engineers explained to me that it simply didn't make sense to spend millions to re-engineer the roof of a 20 year old vehicle with 20 year old everything else. So the CVPI was discontinued and far less engineering dollars went into the conversion of the Explorer and Taurus into a pursuit rated police vehicle where everything is modern, not just the roof.

It seems dubious to me that it would take millions of dollars to put beefed up pillars and a cross beam support on an existing roof. I'm guessing more like 1 day and $50 worth of materials.... more cost in retooling but still pretty minor.

I'd imagine that after some research, they discovered that they could sell a more expensive SUV instead to increase profits, and that the vehicle being 20 years old design by itself was the reason to retire it.
 




Sgt1411

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It seems dubious to me that it would take millions of dollars to put beefed up pillars and a cross beam support on an existing roof. I'm guessing more like 1 day and $50 worth of materials.... more cost in retooling but still pretty minor.

I'd imagine that after some research, they discovered that they could sell a more expensive SUV instead to increase profits, and that the vehicle being 20 years old design by itself was the reason to retire it.

The tooling costs for one new part are almost a million, the CVPI roof was millions
 




J_C

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The tooling costs for one new part are almost a million, the CVPI roof was millions
Development and testing of a from-scratch design is far more expensive than just beefing up an existing one. It could entail little more than welding on additional support beams and a different trim panel mold to cover the new dimensions, nowhere near $1M.
 




Sgt1411

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Development and testing of a from-scratch design is far more expensive than just beefing up an existing one. It could entail little more than welding on additional support beams and a different trim panel mold to cover the new dimensions, nowhere near $1M.


Thanks but I will take the word of the Chief Engineer on the Explorer for my tooling cost estimates.
 




J_C

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Thanks but I will take the word of the Chief Engineer on the Explorer for my tooling cost estimates.
Then let's include that engineer on this topic? 3rd party hearsay that goes against normal manufacturing costs to merely weld on a reinforcement, is not reliable.. The cost per vehicle is more like $200.
 




Mikki_disney

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I’m on my 2nd 2020 Explorer. Major transmission issues with both. Now going through the Ford Reacquired Vehicle program for the second time. I love the vehicle. I just wish it properly worked. This has now been going on for a year. :(



Hi All. Joined this forum to cite what I feel are engineering flaws associated with the 2020 Explorer. I drive a 2010 Explorer, and own a 2020. If I could purchase a 2010 new, I would over the 2020. Here’s what I’ve found in the 2020 that I consider to be engineering flaws.
1. All 4 side doors are too light. If parked with a fair wind from behind, the doors catch the wind like a sail and fly out of your hand unexpectedly. The force on the hinge - like a hyperextended knee, is tremendous. A few good wind events and you will need new door hinges and likely body work from crimping.
2. The 10 speed auto transmission is flawed.. particularly when in “manual” paddle mode. There are clunky shifts in both modes. Assume the 10 speeds are to make the 4 cylinder turbo work easier. The 2010 is seamless when shifting.
3. The round shift “knob” is ridiculous. Park is directly to the left of drive. Turn counterclockwise by mistake while rolling and you just ruined your transmission.
4. The 2020 vehicle has blind spots on both sides. The 2010 does not. Forget the side warning lights on the mirrors. The technology won’t save you (or the vehicle next to you) every time.
5. Bring back a real key. The push button can be operated by a child and the key fobs are constantly misplaced.
6. Way to much distracting technology. I don’t want a smart car that tries to drive me. I want a stupid car that I can drive with no bells/whistles going off. The control screen is more dangerous than a cellphone in terms of removing your eyes from the road to adjust the temp. Of course you can do it all via the steering wheel, but you need to memorize the buttons and flow sequences.
Thanks! Curious if I have company.
 




Bburg Boy

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Hey, I too was frustrated when I first got my 2020 Explorer last fall. But you get used to most of the newfangled safety items. I turned off the thingamajig that fought with me as I changed lanes. The blind spot indicators, which I thought were useless, have saved my bacon more than one. The foot operated rear deck lid actually works...at least once I realized you don't need to get your knee under the car. Push button start is actually kind of nice.

This is my fourth Explorer, a journey I began with the first model in 1991. The 2020 is not a truck and has a nice ride. But it is rear wheel drive and still goes off road like the early version. I'm a fisherman and actually drive it through streams and over rocks, unlike a lot of SUV owners. It's got all the moxie that you'll need in a midsize SUV.

I too have the four cylinder and it packs a punch. But my gas mileage is miserable - 14 MPG around town. I wish they would sell it without the rear seat - mine has been lowered since the day I bought it 12 months ago. And I hate black interiors, because they show every nick, scratch, or dirt spot. I purchased the almond color but only the leather seats are in that color. The rest of the vehicle - carpet, sidewalls, deck, etc. is in black. - a lousy combination for a guy who hauls wood, fishing gear, and things that SUV's are made to haul.
 




newmantjn

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3. The round shift “knob” is ridiculous. Park is directly to the left of drive. Turn counterclockwise by mistake while rolling and you just ruined your transmission.

The relative location of PRND is dictated by FMVSS standards. Same as a lever.
 




Enzo Chiapet

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I'm not sure you'll have a lot of company with those complaints. That being said, I made sure to stay away from the 2020 when I was ready to buy my Explorer (grabbed a low mileage very clean 2017 Sport).

I was really excited about this next generation Explorer built around a "rear-drive" platform, but was struck by how bad the launch was due to excessive production quality issues. Yes, all new gen vehicles have some teething issues, but the 2020 Explorer was horrendous. Ford ended up having to setup a facility to do nothing but fix these things post production, which was well after the initial wave was in market.

I will agree with you about the transmission concern - from my perspective it's the only real engineering issue on your list - and actually ended up being my number one concern why to not consider the 2020 Explorer and potentially 2021 and beyond.

Ford / GM did a joint venture on a new transmission, with the Ford being a longitudinal 10-speed (10R80 and 10R140), starting for select 2017 production year vehicles. It's in the 2017-2020 F150 and It's a piece of junk. I ended up getting 2020 F150 loaner from my local dealer earlier this year - had less than 500 miles on it - and the transmission was horrible. It sometimes would jumped gears, got stuck in 3rd gear on two occasions, and routinely hard-shifted for no apparent reason. There's numerous TSBs and some class action lawsuits.

My understanding is the 2020 Explorer 10-speed (10R60) is basically the same 'hard-parts' but is running different components in the guts of the thing. While maybe the 10R60 doesn't have the same issues as the 10R80, to me it's not worth the +$50K to experiment on especially when it comes to an automatic transmission.

My 2017 Explorer Sport seems to be rock solid all around. I'm pushing 60K miles and drive the hell out of the thing, which includes a cold air intake and some additional performance upgrades from Livernois (3-bar map sensor, high flow thermostat, etc. and their performance tunes).

Cheers







 




James MNVKSFN

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Don't you also have to have your foot on the brake to engage 'Park'? I don't have the "knob" but have 'piano-type' keys. Still prefer the shifter.

Peter
You do not have to have your foot on the brake, but you have to go pretty slow. I did it recently and it stops on a dime and you then get the look from the misses like WTF did you just do, very much the same as when backing and the sensor stops you "before" you hit something. #ItIsQuiteShocking
 




Reino

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Ha! Its posts like this that really make the "OK, Boomer" memes true. All your complaints (except maybe the transmission) just seem like an old man yelling about new tech.

1. Modern cars are built lighter to meet EPA standards. I bet the 2020 gets 150% mpg over your 2010--don't hear you complain about that.
2. I love my 10 speed in paddle mode. It does 'rev-hang' sometimes, and probably could be worked out better in future models. But its still an amazing drivetrain with a ridiculous amount of power from a 4-cylinder.
3. Computer will not allow transmission damage if you do this. Shift levers are a thing of the past. Get used to it.
4. Mirror aerodynamics are also affected by EPA standards on all cars. That's why the blind spot monitor is there. (Also, widen your mirrors. 90% of drivers who complain about blind spots have their mirrors fixed on the body panels of the car--too close.)
5. Seriously? Is this 1999? Just keep the key in your console and forget about it. Use the door keypad or your phone to lock & unlock.
6. More old man yelling at cloud. You can turn almost every aid off if you want (not sure why you would though). Also I'm not sure what canyons you are carving in an Explorer. I think the aids take a lot of stress away from driving in traffic. They help me just sit back and relax and listen to music or podcasts on my commute.
 




Larryjb

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Hi All. Joined this forum to cite what I feel are engineering flaws associated with the 2020 Explorer. I drive a 2010 Explorer, and own a 2020. If I could purchase a 2010 new, I would over the 2020. Here’s what I’ve found in the 2020 that I consider to be engineering flaws.
1. All 4 side doors are too light. If parked with a fair wind from behind, the doors catch the wind like a sail and fly out of your hand unexpectedly. The force on the hinge - like a hyperextended knee, is tremendous. A few good wind events and you will need new door hinges and likely body work from crimping.
2. The 10 speed auto transmission is flawed.. particularly when in “manual” paddle mode. There are clunky shifts in both modes. Assume the 10 speeds are to make the 4 cylinder turbo work easier. The 2010 is seamless when shifting.
3. The round shift “knob” is ridiculous. Park is directly to the left of drive. Turn counterclockwise by mistake while rolling and you just ruined your transmission.
4. The 2020 vehicle has blind spots on both sides. The 2010 does not. Forget the side warning lights on the mirrors. The technology won’t save you (or the vehicle next to you) every time.
5. Bring back a real key. The push button can be operated by a child and the key fobs are constantly misplaced.
6. Way to much distracting technology. I don’t want a smart car that tries to drive me. I want a stupid car that I can drive with no bells/whistles going off. The control screen is more dangerous than a cellphone in terms of removing your eyes from the road to adjust the temp. Of course you can do it all via the steering wheel, but you need to memorize the buttons and flow sequences.
Thanks! Curious if I have company.
1. side doors. Can't comment because I don't know what the 2020 is like. Are they light because they're made from aluminum? Or are they light because they're structurally not so rigid?

2. II always felt the 2008 felt a little clunky with shifts compared to the older 4 speed AODE I had. I'm used to it though. If the 2020 is clunky compared to the 2010, I wouldn't be happy with that.

3. round shift knob: don't know. I'm with you on that, but I probably have not right to an opinion yet as I haven't tried it yet. It really seems to be a love/hate relationship, but I like that solid feeling of selecting a gear. I've seen people use these rotary shifters and they seem like they can be "flicked" into gear.

4. blind spots: This I find concerning. Our 2008 is bad for blind spots. My wife drove my 1992 Grand Marquis, a full sized RWD Mercury, and never hit anything. That boat was larger by far than our 2008 Explorer, and she has scraped several vehicles backing into parking spots. It comes down to blind spots. I'm a little horrified to hear the 2020 is worse for blind spots.

5. distracting technology. I'm totally with you. I really wish they made two dash board options. One tech one and one simplified one with real push buttons. I suppose it's too expensive to manufacture these two options. But it seems as if we are in the minority here.

I actually love my 2002 Tahoe because it has 3 dials for temperature control. It has automatic climate control too, at that, but I can reach over and swing the controls over to defog without looking. I can feel where the knob is set to. Unfortunately, it lacks the "cool" factor. (I guess the AC mode isn't "cool" enough.)

I loved my 1992 Grand Marquis for the same reason I love the Tahoe. Maybe the slider of the 1992 is so old it is forgotten and can become "cool" again?
 




Larryjb

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Ha! Its posts like this that really make the "OK, Boomer" memes true. All your complaints (except maybe the transmission) just seem like an old man yelling about new tech.
...


Yup, I'm an old 51 year-old man too. :rickfro:

Seriously though, when I was driving a 2014 Explorer as a loaner, I nearly burned my butt because I couldn't fiddle with the touch screen to turn the seat heater off while I was on the highway. Imagine explaining that one to the cop as your reason for causing an accident!
 




peterk9

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Welcome to the Forum Enzo. :wave:

Peter
 




quickfix

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Ha! Its posts like this that really make the "OK, Boomer" memes true. All your complaints (except maybe the transmission) just seem like an old man yelling about new tech.

1. Modern cars are built lighter to meet EPA standards. I bet the 2020 gets 150% mpg over your 2010--don't hear you complain about that.
2. I love my 10 speed in paddle mode. It does 'rev-hang' sometimes, and probably could be worked out better in future models. But its still an amazing drivetrain with a ridiculous amount of power from a 4-cylinder.
3. Computer will not allow transmission damage if you do this. Shift levers are a thing of the past. Get used to it.
4. Mirror aerodynamics are also affected by EPA standards on all cars. That's why the blind spot monitor is there. (Also, widen your mirrors. 90% of drivers who complain about blind spots have their mirrors fixed on the body panels of the car--too close.)
5. Seriously? Is this 1999? Just keep the key in your console and forget about it. Use the door keypad or your phone to lock & unlock.
6. More old man yelling at cloud. You can turn almost every aid off if you want (not sure why you would though). Also I'm not sure what canyons you are carving in an Explorer. I think the aids take a lot of stress away from driving in traffic. They help me just sit back and relax and listen to music or podcasts on my commute.
I'm a boomer and agree with everything you said...except your blatant ageism.
 




Reino

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I'm a boomer and agree with everything you said...except your blatant ageism.
It's a joke, bud. I'm 40 and I have plenty of 'old-man' complaints about the generation below me. We all get there. OP may as well just own it.
 


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JEdgar

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Hi All. Joined this forum to cite what I feel are engineering flaws associated with the 2020 Explorer. I drive a 2010 Explorer, and own a 2020. If I could purchase a 2010 new, I would over the 2020. Here’s what I’ve found in the 2020 that I consider to be engineering flaws.
1. All 4 side doors are too light. If parked with a fair wind from behind, the doors catch the wind like a sail and fly out of your hand unexpectedly. The force on the hinge - like a hyperextended knee, is tremendous. A few good wind events and you will need new door hinges and likely body work from crimping.
2. The 10 speed auto transmission is flawed.. particularly when in “manual” paddle mode. There are clunky shifts in both modes. Assume the 10 speeds are to make the 4 cylinder turbo work easier. The 2010 is seamless when shifting.
3. The round shift “knob” is ridiculous. Park is directly to the left of drive. Turn counterclockwise by mistake while rolling and you just ruined your transmission.
4. The 2020 vehicle has blind spots on both sides. The 2010 does not. Forget the side warning lights on the mirrors. The technology won’t save you (or the vehicle next to you) every time.
5. Bring back a real key. The push button can be operated by a child and the key fobs are constantly misplaced.
6. Way to much distracting technology. I don’t want a smart car that tries to drive me. I want a stupid car that I can drive with no bells/whistles going off. The control screen is more dangerous than a cellphone in terms of removing your eyes from the road to adjust the temp. Of course you can do it all via the steering wheel, but you need to memorize the buttons and flow sequences.
Thanks! Curious if I have company.
I have owned three Explorers over the last fifteen years, plus a Lincoln MKX. I now own a 2020 Explorer ST and will say it beats the other SUVs I have owned without a question. It is enjoyable to drive and living in CA cruise control was a waste until the ST came with Adaptive Cruise. Not sure where the blind spot issue is. Not to be mean but maybe you need to raise the seat a bit. I actually now look forward to going on long trips. If I test drove the ST and felt it had this many flaws I would have walked. I call them like I see them and mark me down as a very happy ST owner. Did I mention my wife and kids love it too? For the record, I have never misplaced a key fob for any of my four cars which all have key fobs.
 




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