2nd Gen Sploder Drivetrain Differences

[gavin]

Ok, so I've gotten parts, done a lot of searching, yadda yadda yadda.

I truly believe the 96 Sploders had some more differences in the drivetrain that I assume.
Now, I know the biggest change was on the t-case front output, changing from the flat flange, to the circular cup, when they moved from a double-cardan shaft to the gkn cv-shaft.

But... did something else move?!
the shaft on top is an OEM 96 Sploder double-cardan shaft (I replaced the head with the circular unit to mount onto the later model t-case output).
The lower is the shaft I had converted from single-cardan to double-cardan.

Notice the difference in the main shaft. The slip-shafts are the same length.
But the main shaft on the OEM unit is about 3-4" longer.
Now... how can this be?! The lower shaft, I had have to slip it out about ~1" to fit it onto the t-case.
The upper shaft, is about 3-4" too long to even fit.

Now, even if you remove the cv-head that I put on, and put the OEM yoke back on, it would still be too long.
The shaft came out of a 96 V8 AWD Sploder.
Mine is for a 97.

There has to be something else that's different?!

Especially since no aftermarket driveline (ie, the big popular names) make a double-cardan shaft to replace the gkn cv-style shaft. Now, Rockford Driveline used to make single-cardan replacement shafts, but they stopped due to... lemme find the email...

Jeremy, although you did not purchase this assembly from us I can tell you that we have quit offering this shaft and now offer them with the CV joint and call them an 8305CV. The 5.0L Explorers drive line system run at a different angle then the 4.0L Explorers. Although we did have some success with the U-Joint conversion we received a higher then acceptable return rate for the 8305C and quit making them a year ago. I hope this information is helpful and if you have any additional questions you can contact sales at 800-728-7237.

Thanks for the inquiry

Russ Jacobson
Product Manager
Rockford Drive Line

Now, I understand the 4.0 t-case output will be at a different angle than the 5.0 t-case.

Anybody have a 96 and 97/98 V8 they can compare?!

 

[gijoecam]

I *think* the difference in lengths is likely due to the difference in the transmissions. IIRC, the V-8 t-case sits a little farther back due to the extra length of the trans, but I could be mistaken... IIRC, the V-6 and V-8 front shafts are not the same length.

Off the top of my head, I dunno... Sorry...

What, exactly, are you trying to do?

-Joe

 

[gavin]

I *think* the difference in lengths is likely due to the difference in the transmissions. IIRC, the V-8 t-case sits a little farther back due to the extra length of the trans, but I could be mistaken... IIRC, the V-6 and V-8 front shafts are not the same length.

Off the top of my head, I dunno... Sorry...

What, exactly, are you trying to do?

-Joe

But... the 95-96 V8's used the same exact 4R70W transmission and BW4404 AWD transfercase. And you know the engine blocks were the same, too. Ok, these are really just my assumptions. I know there were slight differences with certain engine components.
Slight design differences, but I couldn't see those making such a difference?
Yes, I do know the V6 and V8 shafts are different lengths due to different t-cases (according to Rockford Driveline the V6 also has a different pinion angle on the front axle?).

As for what I'm trying to do... I'm trying to get rid of the GKN CV-style driveshaft. I will soon be on shaft #4. In ~6yrs.
A double-cardan will last MUCH longer, and is serviceable; whereas the OEM GKN CV-style shaft is not serviceable. Well, you can buy a new CV-joint, but that's damn near the cost of a remanu'ed shaft.

My main reason for asking is... both shafts in the picture fit V8 Explorers. The difference, is that the longer one will not fit on a 97, and fit on a 96. Which tells me Ford must have changed something else in 97, short of the "slight" differences.

 

[gijoecam]

The only change I'm aware of was the switch between the double-cardan joint and the CV joint.... and IIRC, the CV flange on the front output is much longer than the U-joint output flange was on the 95-96. That would explain why the longer shaft from the older Ex wouldn't fit the newer truck...

Hmmm... gotta think about this one for a bit...

 

[gavin]

The only change I'm aware of was the switch between the double-cardan joint and the CV joint.... and IIRC, the CV flange on the front output is much longer than the U-joint output flange was on the 95-96. That would explain why the longer shaft from the older Ex wouldn't fit the newer truck...

Hmmm... gotta think about this one for a bit...

confusing, ain't it?

FYI, are you sure about the t-case front output being longer on the later models?
it was quite short, really. "Lip" of the cupis, oh, 2" away from the case? rough guesstimate. I'm sure it is a bit longer, as it's a cup and not a flat flange. But ~4" of difference in the shafts I have. I could get an actual measurement this evening when I get home from work.

 

[gijoecam]

I'm still wondering if you got the new shaft from a V-6 instead of the V-8?

 

[gavin]

I purchased the shaft from chriswells, who said it was from a V8. So I'm pretty sure it was from a V8.

 

[gavin]

argh.. double post

 

[gijoecam]

I think you got the *new* shaft from a 1st gen with a 13-54...

-Joe

 

[gavin]

nope.
the shaft from chriswells had a flat flange.
no bolting necessary. I swapped the centering joint and end-yoke.
the rusty yoke sitting there used to be on the shaft.

and I measured the shafts yesterday... before the double-cardan joint, my custom shaft measured ~22.75". The other measured ~26.25"

 

[gijoecam]

OK, now I'm even more confused... Which shaft is which in your original picture?? What was done to which shaft?

 

[gavin]

the shaft at the bottom of the picture... originally a Rockford Driveline single-cardan shaft. I had it converted to double-cardan, which included the new end-yoke and centering joint.

the shaft at the top of the picture was the OEM from a 96 AWD V8 Sploder I purchased from chriswells78

I swapped the end-yoke and centering joint from my converted shaft to the one I got from Chris, which is how it is in the original picture.

 

[gijoecam]

Hmmm... ya' got me... I'm completely lost on this one... I don't have any of the spec books for those years, just the service manuals... Those don't tell me squat. The only difference I see is that the 95-96 cases exploded diagrams show the extension housing that attaches to the transmission, but the 97 manual doesn't... that doesn't mean it's not there on the 97s, but *could* possibly explain the 4" difference... Maybe they changed the input shafts on the t-case to fit right on the trans housing without a tail housing?? I have no idea... sorry... this one's over my head...

-Joe

 

[gavin]

Hmmm... ya' got me... I'm completely lost on this one... I don't have any of the spec books for those years, just the service manuals... Those don't tell me squat. The only difference I see is that the 95-96 cases exploded diagrams show the extension housing that attaches to the transmission, but the 97 manual doesn't... that doesn't mean it's not there on the 97s, but *could* possibly explain the 4" difference... Maybe they changed the input shafts on the t-case to fit right on the trans housing without a tail housing?? I have no idea... sorry... this one's over my head...

-Joe

nope, there is an extension housing. I rebuilt my t-case a couple months back. I'm confused myself. I didn't think there were many (if any) changes, short of the front output shaft change.

 

[Blacksheep Josh]

It's hard enough to keep this straight in my head, add the fact everyone elses name in here starts with a G and that just doubles the confusion. lol.

Interesting read.

 

[gijoecam]

Is it possible you got the wrong shaft from Rockford in the first place? I'd give them a call and see if they can look up some specs for you on what the lengths should be for the years in question...

 

[gavin]

Is it possible you got the wrong shaft from Rockford in the first place? I'd give them a call and see if they can look up some specs for you on what the lengths should be for the years in question...

Rockford no longer makes the shaft. They quit making it about a year ago, becuase they apparently had a higher than acceptable return-rate.
And I purchased it off eBay.
It had to be shortened ~2" to get it the correct length when it got converted to double-cardan.

and from what I remember, when I originally received the shaft, it was the correct one. It fit like a glove, before and after I had it converted to double-cardan.

Regardless, the converted one fits, the OEM 96 does not.

 

[gavin]

A1 Cardone replaced d-shaft for 1996 Explorer.
Part #'s 65-9622 (states for 27 13/16" propshaft)
and 65-9623 (states for 28 1/4" propshaft).
Both measuring 39.563".
Both listed as fitting "all engines"

Cardone actually lists "RR only" for the 97 Explorer V8. Maybe because it changed mid-model-year?

65-9540 is listed for a 98, with a 22 3/4" propshaft, which has the GKN cv-joint. Measuring 28.875"


Soooooo.... Ford definately changed something between 96 and 97. 5-6" difference in front driveshaft length (~11" total length) between 96 and 97.

 

[gavin]

.

 

[gijoecam]

Hmmm.... interesting... Could they have shifted the motor back that far? But what about the rear driveshaft? There should be a corresponding change in the rear driveshaft lengths too, shouldn't there?